PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Just Jack]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

For reference there is not a single college athletic department in any college sport across the country that charges PSL's.

 

Syracuse University requires a "donation" to their Cuse Athletic Fund to buy season tickets.  While not calling it a PSL, it's still an extra charge to have the privilege to buy season tickets. 

 

Quote

Why is there an annual required seat-related ‘Cuse Athletics Fund membership on Football Season Tickets?
Seat-related ‘Cuse Athletics Fund memberships are essential to supporting the student-athlete experience at Syracuse University. This portion of your season ticket is used provide the resources needed for our teams to recruit, train and compete both in competition and in the classroom and is used to directly support all 20 programs and 600+ student-athletes. This portion also qualifies you as a ‘Cuse Athletics Fund member and applies toward your ‘CAF Annual Giving Level, which identifies your eligibility for different annual benefits and is used in donor rank to allocate tickets, parking and hospitality.

 

Syracuse Football Season Tickets

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, teef said:

no.

 

That kinda hurt my feelings.

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

 

you may be right....but i just provided a link from NYS dept of State saying the opposite. A license is not needed for selling tickets originally bought for personal use.

 

what proof do have, please provide a link.....do you know any sabre STH who is an average joe who was targeted by the sabres  ?

 

 

 

I'm sure it's just the start. 

 

[WotAGuy]

I’m grateful for the STH that sell their tickets. It makes it much easier to go to the occasional game.  Back in the day, it was a scramble to get individual game tickets as soon as they went on sale. 
 

And it’s not just the STHs that will be paying the PSL; anyone buying a resale ticket is going to be paying a lot more to account for the PSL and increased game ticket cost. 
 

The owners are going to keep pushing the envelope as long as there’s someone buying what they are selling. Corporations may be able to write off the expense of the suites/clubs. The rest of us will be paying more and more and slowly dropping out as the cost becomes prohibitive or we just tire of bending over. 
 

Like everything in life, the NFL is changing and you either roll with it or tap out. 

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

Syracuse University requires a "donation" to their Cuse Athletic Fund to buy season tickets.  While not calling it a PSL, it's still an extra charge to have the privilege to buy season tickets. 

 

 

Syracuse Football Season Tickets

 

They aren't PSL's. You don't own the right to the seat for other events, you get no priority, and they are only for one single season. 

Ultimately these are just itemized season tickets broken down into ticket and profit. But because SU is non-profit that profit is considered a "donation" and that donation is tax deductible. Also the total "all in" cost of a season ticket to SU Football is between $99 - $650 INCLUDING the tax deductible donation. 

 

Good luck telling the IRS your PSL is a donation.

This is not the same thing. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

A guy that takes home $3,200 a month, that $1,100 hurts him a lot more.  That's only $2,100 leftover.  Mortgage/Rent, groceries, utilities, car payments, general family every day costs....

 

Are you under the impression that it is $1,100 per MONTH? 

It's not. 

 

The 300-level is (on average - sections vary) 9 monthly payments of $89 per month. The 100 level is on average 9 monthly payments of $122 per month.

Therefore if you wanted to use a monthly budget, it would be $3,200/mo take home, with $3,111 left after budgeting the seasons in the 300's, and $3,078 leftover in the 100's. 
 

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

yeah that guy isn't buying $1,100 tickets.  

Yeah, they are.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it is certainly doable for the Bills. You can sell 2, max 3 games, and pay for your season. It’s the Sabres people selling 25 games that they have an issue with. Also, in hockey/basketball/baseball the demand is opponent based. With the Bills the interest and pricing is more Bills based. Yes, KC brings more money than Denver but Denver still has massive demand. Every game before Thanksgiving has big demand. When you sell a Leafs ticket it’s WAY more likely to end up in the hands of a Leafs fan than a Broncos ticket is to end up in the hands of a Broncos fan.

Not to mention December games 

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, mrags said:

Actually the night games don’t necessarily sell that well. 

Then you are either charging too much or are in the wrong section. My night games sold like hot-cakes. I kicked myself for not pricing them higher because they were gone so quickly.

NOTE: The exception to this is Thursday night games. Those suck.

I do watch some other STH's on Ticketmaster just sit on their tickets though. And it's almost always because they have them priced at something stupid like $700 per ticket. Of course they aren't selling at that price.

[Mango]

There was some complaint about the 10 year length on the PSL's up thread. That likely coincides with right around Josh Allen's retirement. I would assume that is by design once the market resets? 

Based on the Sabres, the terrible upkeep of KBC, and Pegula pulling out of Blue Cross Arena lease in Rochester, I have every expectation that he becomes a bad tennant and the team tanks. He will want to stick his hand in the honey jar one more time before that happens. 

 

Edit: I was corrected on the timeline down thread. I still have little faith in Terry Pegula. 

Edited April 11 by Mango

[WotAGuy]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Are you under the impression that it is $1,100 per MONTH? 

It's not. 

 

The 300-level is (on average - sections vary) 9 monthly payments of $89 per month. The 100 level is on average 9 monthly payments of $122 per month.

Therefore if you wanted to use a monthly budget, it would be $3,200/mo take home, with $3,111 left after budgeting the seasons in the 300's, and $3,078 leftover in the 100's. 
 

Yeah, they are.

 

You’re making a convincing argument that even average earners can afford the new $15,000 PSLs.  A 10-year loan at 10% interest is about $200/month. 

[teef]

33 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That kinda hurt my feelings.

it shouldn't.  you can be handsome in your own way, but not the michael b jordan kind of a way.  

[Einstein]

13 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

You’re making a convincing argument that even average earners can afford the new $15,000 PSLs.  A 10-year loan at 10% interest is about $200/month. 

If that was the only payment, yes. But you're forgetting - it will be the PSL payment, PLUS the season ticket payment. A PSL payment of $200 is double what they spend on seasons right now, and the season ticket payment will likely go up by at least 50% as well. In essence, we are talking about a 3x increase in cash outlay.

Another place where price sensitivity will come into play with lower earners is the down payment required. I saw one person was quoted a down-payment of $8,000. I don't know the terms, but that surprised me and is likely where the lower earners will struggle (ie: see my comments on elasticity of demand).

[WotAGuy]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

If that was the only payment, yes. But you're forgetting - it will be the PSL payment, PLUS the season ticket payment. A PSL payment of $200 is double what they spend on seasons right now, and the season ticket payment will likely go up by at least 50% as well. In essence, we are talking about a 3x increase in cash outlay.

Another place where price sensitivity will come into play with lower earners is the down payment required. I saw one person was quoted a down-payment of $8,000. I don't know the terms, but that surprised me and is likely where the lower earners will struggle (ie: see my comments on elasticity of demand).

 

Ugh, yeah I do remember someone saying the financing was available after the down payment. Not to

mention, in most cases, people

will be buying a minimum of two seats.  
 

 

 

Edited April 11 by WotAGuy

[Royale with Cheese]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Are you under the impression that it is $1,100 per MONTH? 

It's not. 

 

The 300-level is (on average - sections vary) 9 monthly payments of $89 per month. The 100 level is on average 9 monthly payments of $122 per month.

Therefore if you wanted to use a monthly budget, it would be $3,200/mo take home, with $3,111 left after budgeting the seasons in the 300's, and $3,078 leftover in the 100's. 
 

Yeah, they are.

 

 

I didn't mean for it to be taken too literally.  Yes I know some people spend ridiculously above their budget but it's not the majority.  

The majority of your season ticket holders are going to be your middle to upper middle class that live in your regular suburban neighborhoods.

 

$122 a month for someone with a family is difficult of a $22.00 an hour income.  It would probably be top 5 most expensive payment he has. This is assuming it's just him going and not the other members of the family.

Not to mention parking, food, beer/drinks, merchandise....

[loyal2dagame]

1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said:

I just got an email from my Season Ticket Rep on whether I wanted strictly electronic tickets or the Season Ticket Debit Card they offer as an option.  I always elect for the Season Ticket card but there's a caveat this year where if you select that option(first time this is a thing) there is a $15 charge that comes with it.  I mean $15 is whatever but yet again there's a principal involved here where they are continuing to find every way possible to squeeze more money out of the fans.  Guess they still aren't happy enough with all the extra $$$$$ they are making from these PSL's🤣🤣

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am glad my time of being a ticket holder is coming to an end soon 

They charged last year for the card also.  You might have missed it but it was $10 per card.

[BillsPride12]

4 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

They charged last year for the card also.  You might have missed it but it was $10 per card.

My mistake then lol, I honestly don't remember that but not surprised 

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

There was some complaint about the 10 year length on the PSL's up thread. That likely coincides with right around Josh Allen's retirement. I would assume that is by design once the market resets? 

Based on the Sabres, the terrible upkeep of KBC, and Pegula pulling out of Blue Cross Arena lease in Rochester, I have every expectation that he becomes a bad tennant and the team tanks. He will want to stick his hand in the honey jar one more time before that happens. 

 

The 10 years is the finance loan you can get to pay off the PSL, the PSL contract is good for 30 years.  

[mrags]

3 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

I just got an email from my Season Ticket Rep on whether I wanted strictly electronic tickets or the Season Ticket Debit Card they offer as an option.  I always elect for the Season Ticket card but there's a caveat this year where if you select that option(first time this is a thing) there is a $15 charge that comes with it.  I mean $15 is whatever but yet again there's a principal involved here where they are continuing to find every way possible to squeeze more money out of the fans.  Guess they still aren't happy enough with all the extra $$$$$ they are making from these PSL's🤣🤣

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am glad my time of being a ticket holder is coming to an end soon 

 

1 hour ago, loyal2dagame said:

They charged last year for the card also.  You might have missed it but it was $10 per card.

It’s actually a mandate by the NFL to go to cardless, paperless tickets. It actually started before Covid. The year before Covid my buddy and I went on a tour of the clubs when we were purchasing and our rep told us the NFL is going that route. It helps crack down on scalpers and fake tickets. Notice I didn’t say brokers. Because the NFL is perfectly ok with them doing what they’re doing. Anyway, you could still get cards, or even paper tickets but you had to ask for them. I imagined at some point you would have to pay extra for them as well. Which is now the case. I think you can still get paper tickets also, but last I checked it was an extra $4/ticket. 

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Then you are either charging too much or are in the wrong section. My night games sold like hot-cakes. I kicked myself for not pricing them higher because they were gone so quickly.

NOTE: The exception to this is Thursday night games. Those suck.

I do watch some other STH's on Ticketmaster just sit on their tickets though. And it's almost always because they have them priced at something stupid like $700 per ticket. Of course they aren't selling at that price.

Haven’t you stated in this thread multiple times that you are no longer a STH? When was the last time you sold night games? Because I did last year and I can tell you I had a hard time selling 1 night game. Lost money on one playoff game. Didn’t even get what I paid for them, and barely covered the other playoff game. 

[Just Jack]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

 

It’s actually a mandate by the NFL to go to cardless, paperless tickets. It actually started before Covid. The year before Covid my buddy and I went on a tour of the clubs when we were purchasing and our rep told us the NFL is going that route. It helps crack down on scalpers and fake tickets. Notice I didn’t say brokers. Because the NFL is perfectly ok with them doing what they’re doing. Anyway, you could still get cards, or even paper tickets but you had to ask for them. I imagined at some point you would have to pay extra for them as well. Which is now the case. I think you can still get paper tickets also, but last I checked it was an extra $4/ticket. 

 

I brought my brother in laws to the Eagles/Bills game back in 2019, and to make things easy I asked for paper tickets, having the mobile tickets as a backup, so I wouldn't need to get scanned seven times to get them in.  I believe it was $4/ticket back then to get paper.  

[mrags]

Just now, Just Jack said:

 

I brought my brother in laws to the Eagles/Bills game back in 2019, and to make things easy I asked for paper tickets, having the mobile tickets as a backup, so I wouldn't need to get scanned seven times to get them in.  I believe it was $4/ticket back then to get paper.  

Ok. So it’s most likely $6-10/tix now. I knew that was the case tho. Because we asked. 
 

again, it’s not the Bills doing it, it’s the NFL. The entire league is going that route. Maybe they all haven’t yet, but they will in time.