PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

 Its not about cracking down on brokers. It's cracking down a ticket holders who sell the majority of their tickets.  Those who do will have to pay a $5000 fee to NY state to continue to sell most of your tickets. 

The point being, that the Bills partners have already paid that fee. A brokerage like Ace (for example) owns hundreds of season tickets throughout the state of NY. These are professional organizations with full time staffs. 

 

The Sabres had/have some real broker partners like that. They also have a bunch of people that buy season tickets knowing that they can sell a bunch to cover their cost. They sell the Leafs, Habs and 15-20 more games to cover the entire cost. That’s what they’re trying to stop. It’s the amateurs trying to make a business out of it.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

They can’t.

 

PSL’s must be used for the construction project and nothing else.

 

Its just double taxation for WNY’ers.

The Bills are contractually bound for $350m plus cost overruns and while everyone knows that PSL revenues will be used to cover a portion of that cost, there is no precise contractual language that I’m aware that says they must use those revenues to cover their obligation, so technically, they don’t have to expressly dedicate those funds for that purpose. It wouldn’t make good business sense because it’s found money anyway, but if Pegula wanted, he could use funds from any source he chooses to cover his obligation. 

[Jrb1979]

37 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The point being, that the Bills partners have already paid that fee. A brokerage like Ace (for example) owns hundreds of season tickets throughout the state of NY. These are professional organizations with full time staffs. 

 

The Sabres had/have some real broker partners like that. They also have a bunch of people that buy season tickets knowing that they can sell a bunch to cover their cost. They sell the Leafs, Habs and 15-20 more games to cover the entire cost. That’s what they’re trying to stop. It’s the amateurs trying to make a business out of it.

You don't think the Bills have amateurs doing the same?  I've some post how they are out of town season ticket holders and go to 1-2 games a season and sell the rest. You don't think they will crack down on them either?

[WEATHER DOT COM]

The Sabres blaming the state is hilarious. If that was the case I'd imagine at least the Bills, Bandits, Knicks, Yankees, Mets, etc etc etc would have similar rules... but none do - just the Sabres.

 

Don't worry, though, Terry will build another well if he needs some extra money.

[Jrb1979]

22 minutes ago, WEATHER DOT COM said:

The Sabres blaming the state is hilarious. If that was the case I'd imagine at least the Bills, Bandits, Knicks, Yankees, Mets, etc etc etc would have similar rules... but none do - just the Sabres.

 

Don't worry, though, Terry will build another well if he needs some extra money.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/buffalo-sabres/latest-news/state-reseller-law-hindering-sabres-season-ticket-holders

 

The Sabres sent an e-mail to fans who comprise less than 1% of their season ticket base that “in light of the recent ticket reseller laws” passed by the NY state legislature in 2022, those who sell a high percentage of their games on the secondary market would have to purchase a license from the state to be able to purchase their season tickets.

 

It is from NY state. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

 there is no precise contractual language that I’m aware that says they must use those revenues to cover their obligation,

 

The contract mentions it multiple times.

 

I’ve posted one such section below. The Bills (Stadco) must deposit all monies from PSL sales into the project fund and has no ownership interest in PSL proceeds.

 

 

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

so technically, they don’t have to expressly dedicate those funds for that purpose. 

 

No, they technically have to. They have no choice.

 

 

Edited April 10 by Einstein

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

The contract mentions it multiple times.

 

I’ve posted one such section below. The Bills (Stadco) must deposit all monies from PSL sales into the project fund and has no ownership interest in PSL proceeds.

 

 

 

No, they technically have to. They have no choice.

 

 

Thanks for the edification. I had no idea that the Bills were only acting as agents for the ECSC and that they, the ECSC, are actually the sole owner of the right to sell the PSLs. With that thought in mind, I wonder why Polencarz voiced his displeasure at the reported costs of the PSLs recently when the county owns the right to sell them in the first place. 
 

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to dig that up. I’m gonna be reading the entire PSL Sales and Marketing Agreement to see what else I just took for granted. 

Edited April 10 by K-9

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

 With that thought in mind, I wonder why Polencarz voiced his displeasure at the reported costs of the PSLs recently when the county owns the right to sell them in the first place. 
 

He’s a politician. He heard people were upset, so he jumped out to lead the charge for the common folk. 
 

Unfortunately, he’s also an idiot and made people upset when he went to Ohio to view the eclipse. The first comment in response to his waxing poetic about the eclipse is hilarious. 
 

 

Edited April 10 by WotAGuy

[Kirby Jackson]

7 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

You don't think the Bills have amateurs doing the same?  I've some post how they are out of town season ticket holders and go to 1-2 games a season and sell the rest. You don't think they will crack down on them either?

I think that they do have some people like that but it’s a rounding error in terms of how many. I don’t know how they’ll handle it. I also don’t know how NY would get the data unless the Bills supported it?

The Sabres situation is being driven by the Sabres with the “cover” of NY’s law. That’s the only way that the state would have the data. If you recall the Sabres tried to limit single game purchasing to certain zip codes prior. It didn’t work but there’s history of them trying to control who comes in.

Edited April 10 by Kirby Jackson

[papazoid]

In 2011, the NFL adopted Resolution G-4, which states as follows:

 

(snipet)

That if PSLs are sold (whether by the applicable club, its affiliated stadium entity, a municipal authority or otherwise) with respect to a particular stadium construction project, such PSLs shall be entirely dedicated to the project costs in respect of such project and shall be eligible for an exemption from sharing in accordance with current policies.

 

https://greenberglawoffice.com/nfl-credit-facility-has-made-possible-new-state-of-the-art-stadiums/

 

(have fun down this rabbit hole...lol)

 

 

Edited April 10 by papazoid

[papazoid]

 

Owners approve G-5 stadium loan program

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2023/12/14/nfl-g5-program

 

(i've been blocked...lol..You’ve Run Out of Articles This Month)

Edited April 10 by papazoid

[billsfanmiamioh]

10 hours ago, Rubes said:

For what it's worth, I got a call yesterday from my season ticket rep, who offered to answer any questions I have.

 

I have season tickets in the lower bowl, Bills side, about the 47-yard line, 31 rows up. Pretty great seats. Seniority going back to 1977.

 

He told me my invitation to the Experience would probably not come until the early Fall, but couldn't really predict it. I was hearing summer a little while back, but it sounds like it's being pushed back a bit. He said it could still be pushed back more, he just wasn't sure.

 

Wouldn't tell me anything about PSL pricing, just that I would have the opportunity to get seats "comparable" to what I currently have, which I highly doubt.

 

We'll see...

 

 

I’m in section 109 (away side, non tunnel end around the 20). I got my call on Monday and was told “closer to the end of the year” for my turn. Didn’t bother asking about pricing but sounded like once I got my notification I would have a 3 week window to schedule. Told her I would ideally schedule the same weekend as a home game since I live in Ohio and travel up for games and she said they could probably even squeeze me in on a weekend if needed. 

[billyudi]

13 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I honestly don’t care (it doesn’t bother me), but i’m curious why they would pick Kleinhans to model from.

 

Its a staple, but definitely not in the top 5 of things I think of when “Buffalo New York” pops in my head.

 

Personally, since the day the rendering was released, all I can see is a stadium that resembles an upscale mall entrance.

 

 

 

I appreciate the design more now that they pointed that out.

 

 

Kleinhans was designed by famous father and son architects. 

 

Buffalo is lucky to have such a rich architectural heritage for a city of its size. However Kleinhans certainly wasn’t the first thing I had in mind when I heard they wanted to represent Buffalo’s historic architecture.

 

Edited April 10 by billyudi
remove extra photo

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, K-9 said:

Thanks for the edification. I had no idea that the Bills were only acting as agents for the ECSC and that they, the ECSC, are actually the sole owner of the right to sell the PSLs. With that thought in mind, I wonder why Polencarz voiced his displeasure at the reported costs of the PSLs recently when the county owns the right to sell them in the first place. 
 

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to dig that up. I’m gonna be reading the entire PSL Sales and Marketing Agreement to see what else I just took for granted. 

 

Because ECSC doesn’t set the prices. Or decide how to sell them.

Thats all the Bills.

 

The Bills are trying to maximize PSL value so the fans pay for as much of the stadium as possible.

 

Billionaires don’t pay. Average Jane’s and Joe’s working for $22 per hour pay.

 

And that’s okay, because other teams do it (or at least that’s the argument from other fans defending it).

[Augie]

2 hours ago, billyudi said:

 

 

I appreciate the design more now that they pointed that out.

 

 

Kleinhans was designed by famous father and son architects. 

 

Buffalo is lucky to have such a rich architectural heritage for a city of its size. However Kleinhans certainly wasn’t the first thing I had in mind when I heard they wanted to represent Buffalo’s historic architecture.

 

 

We have a neighbor who is a well known architect. He was at our place helping us and noticed all the Bills stuff in the basement. He said his wife was going for a beach trip with her friends, but he’s not a big beach lover. Instead he was going to Buffalo for a tour of  WNY architecture. This guy could go anywhere and do anything, and this was a dream trip for him. 

 

The next day he sends me a pic of wings and beer from WNY. I remind him he’s got to try the pizza, and 30 seconds later I get the pic of his pizza. His architecture tour turned into a food and architecture tour.  If you live there it’s easy to take for granted. 

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Billionaires don’t pay. Average Jane’s and Joe’s working for $22 per hour pay.

 

And that’s okay, because other teams do it (or at least that’s the argument from other fans defending it).

You really think people making $22/hour are buying PSLs?  They must have elite budgeting skills. 

[plenzmd1]

3 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

 

I’m in section 109 (away side, non tunnel end around the 20). I got my call on Monday and was told “closer to the end of the year” for my turn. Didn’t bother asking about pricing but sounded like once I got my notification I would have a 3 week window to schedule. Told her I would ideally schedule the same weekend as a home game since I live in Ohio and travel up for games and she said they could probably even squeeze me in on a weekend if needed. 

I am 135, so like the 28...and i am hoping for the same scenario..game weekend. I figured November for me, sounds like it could be later

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

We have a neighbor who is a well known architect. He was at our place helping us and noticed all the Bills stuff in the basement. He said his wife was going for a beach trip with her friends, but he’s not a big beach lover. Instead he was going to Buffalo for a tour of  WNY architecture. This guy could go anywhere and do anything, and this was a dream trip for him. 

 

The next day he sends me a pic of wings and beer from WNY. I remind him he’s got to try the pizza, and 30 seconds later I get the pic of his pizza. His architecture tour turned into a food and architecture tour.  If you live there it’s easy to take for granted. 

Architeture tours of Buffalo very popular, if you have not really should do it when on a game weekend. Last fall did an interior of Buffalo City Hall walking tour, they are free, think they do them every Friday at noon. ( tip your  guide you cheap bastage!)

 

And damn, why did you recommend the drek they call Buffalo pizza. Did you not want him to like Buffalo?

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

Architeture tours of Buffalo very popular, if you have not really should do it when on a game weekend. Last fall did an interior of Buffalo City Hall walking tour, they are free, think they do them every Friday at noon. ( tip your  guide you cheap bastage!)

 

And damn, why did you recommend the drek they call Buffalo pizza. Did you not want him to like Buffalo?

 

Unlike you, sir, he is a man of magnificent taste and he loved his pizza. 

 

I’ll try to do some kind of tour next time back. We came to the home opener a couple years ago directly from a wedding in Chicago. The architectural boat tour in Chicago was VERY cool and I’d highly recommend it! 

[Kirby Jackson]

36 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Because ECSC doesn’t set the prices. Or decide how to sell them.

Thats all the Bills.

 

The Bills are trying to maximize PSL value so the fans pay for as much of the stadium as possible.

 

Billionaires don’t pay. Average Jane’s and Joe’s working for $22 per hour pay.

 

And that’s okay, because other teams do it (or at least that’s the argument from other fans defending it).

Just to be clear no one is “defending it” just accepting it. Also, if you’re making $22 and hour, you shouldn’t be buying a PSL. You absolutely aren’t buying a PSL now. If you’re making $22 an hour, having season tickets now is a stretch. 

[BillyBilliams]

PSL Rep called me yesterday.  Returning an email that I sent like 2 months ago (kind of ridiculous if you ask me).  He told me I won't be seen until early in the upcoming NFL regular season.  I'm a 12 year holder and have been at my current seats for like 5 years now.  

 

This leaves me with a few questions.

 

1.  Why is this taking so long to get people scheduled for this experience?

2. Club seat holders seem to get more time to pay off the 2 year 0% interest free loans.  At this pace, it looks like 300 level holders won't be seen until NEXT fall.  Are they going to get the same amount of time to pay off the PSL as the individuals that are going through the experience now?

3. The individuals doing this tour seems to be in their early to mid-20's.  Why are they not having their most experienced and senior members conducting this sales pitch?  This isn't $300 PSL's we're talking about here.

 

I have a feeling the Bills are realizing they overplayed their hand.  PSL rep said he has absolutely zero clue how much my PSL will cost, not even a range.  I'm willing to bet the team is going to have to adjust the prices for the PSL's.  If Club seats start at $15,000 per seat, people are going to pass on 100 level seats, because I'm going to imagine they were thinking people were going to pay $10k for 30-40 yard line seats.  I can't imagine these club seats are selling like hot cakes.  I really can't imagine that being the case.  Obviously people are buying them, but not at the expectation as they realized.  

 

The issue with club seats are in this area, the people that wanted to buy these seats would have already bought them.  It's going to be rare to see someone come in and just fork out $30k for 2 entry level club seats.