PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[papazoid]

Bills' potential PSL prices for new stadium range from $500 to $16,500

 

" Pegula Sports & Entertainment Exec VP Ron Raccuia said that the Bills "will most likely have the lowest personal seat license prices of any team with a new stadium" built since '09 and are "making an effort to keep prices market-friendly" (BUFFALO NEWS, 5/12).

 

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2022/05/12/Franchises/Bills.aspx

Edited March 29 by papazoid

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, papazoid said:

Bills' potential PSL prices for new stadium range from $500 to $16,500

 

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2022/05/12/Franchises/Bills.aspx

That article is over a year old now. The high end is much higher than the speculated $16,500.  I see the low end being much higher than $500. I see it closer to $2500 of higher. 

 

[papazoid]

1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

That article is over a year old now. The high end is much higher than the speculated $16,500.  I see the low end being much higher than $500. I see it closer to $2500 of higher. 

 

 

imo.....in order to save face....it's highly likely "some" PSL's will be $1,000

[BillsPride12]

I mean a $1000-$2000 PSL isn't expensive by any means and I could easily afford it without a sweat but for me there's a principle involved at stake too as someone who has pretty good seats in the 100 level currently.  I just can't justify paying more money to go sit in the nosebleeds for a more watered down gameday experience.  I may be in a unique position(or not so unique from a lot of commentary I'm seeing here and other places) where I am just getting sick of the NFL in general and looking forward to taking a step back.  It all comes down to personal choices how bad do you want to be there and at what cost.  For me the desire just isn't there anymore.  

[Jrb1979]

34 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

imo.....in order to save face....it's highly likely "some" PSL's will be $1,000

Guaranteed those will be in the upper corners far away from the field. 

[WotAGuy]

36 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Guaranteed those will be in the upper corners far away from the field. 

But they will be under cover!  It sounds like the seats not under cover will be the lower bowl, about halfway from top of that section down to field level. If it plays out the way the Bills have suggested, the cheapest seats will have cover. 
 

 

Edited March 29 by WotAGuy

[Tenhigh]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:14 PM, RiotAct said:

does it, though?

To me it does.  I always viewed PSLs as the right to buy tickets. Seems like the Bills may want to buy them back to sell at a higher rate for stadium upgrades down to line.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Aren't you raking in profits from your investment in Disney?   Disney also charges whatever the market will bear for their products........their profit margins are not based on what's fair.

 

Did you buy when I told you to? If you did, you’re up over 40%!
 

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I'm not trying to pick on you here.   I enjoy your posts typically but you have a very "new money" idea of how capitalism works.

 

There are going to be 40K+ people in that new stadium every week that contributed between $0 in taxes and the NYS share.......which is literally an ineffectual pittance in construction cost terms.    

 

The PSL matter is really just a stand alone price gouge.   Like paying an extra $200 per person or whatever it is to get in the "fast" lines on your Disney stay. 

 

Im not arguing for or against PSL’s. Im not telling anyone not to buy them.

 

Im not sure how to say this more clearly…
 

Im simply arguing that PSL’s are not the “norm” in business. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

Bills' potential PSL prices for new stadium range from $500 to $16,500

 

" Pegula Sports & Entertainment Exec VP Ron Raccuia said that the Bills "will most likely have the lowest personal seat license prices of any team with a new stadium" built since '09 and are "making an effort to keep prices market-friendly" (BUFFALO NEWS, 5/12).

 

 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2022/05/12/Franchises/Bills.aspx

 

That's dated two years ago.

 

According to reports they're already well over that.

 

The Survey is all we have to go on for now but if I recall correctly the lower PSLs were $900/$1,000.

 

Mostly upper EZs and corners.  Remember, the new stadium will be about the same height all the way around unlike the corner one. So when they say Upper EZs they mean same height as our current UDs.

 

I also don't recall any of those having heat although some may have cover.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Did you buy when I told you to? If you did, you’re up over 40%!
 

 

Im not arguing for or against PSL’s. Im not telling anyone not to buy them.

 

Im not sure how to say this more clearly…
 

Im simply arguing that PSL’s are not the “norm” in business. 

 

Doesn't matter what you say, critics will disregard any context and argue based upon what they want your position to be.  

 

🤔😁

 

 

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’re trying WAY too hard to differentiate “fees” from “PSLs.”

 

They are different. 
 

You are attempting to equate two different charges as the same. 

 

As I’ve said before, to make a comparison to a PSL in the Bills situation, you must use a comparable product that:

 

1) Is taxpayer funded for the benefit of the originating organization.  

2) AND an extra fee is charged that goes into the coffers of the originating organization.

3) AND the originating organization pockets the ticket money.

 

Ticket fees meet only ONE of those three items.

 

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have a master’s in sports business and spent almost a decade working in pro sports on the business side. I’ve worked directly on arena lease agreements and funding deals. I understand the topic WAY better than most. 

 

Let’s not get into a genitalia measuring contest. It’s not gentlemenly and no-one wants to read that type of discussion. Besides, one of us is Google’able. Only one of us has articles written about them on Yahoo Finance and Business Insider. The other is you (wink).

 

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Any EXTRA fees associated with purchasing a ticket is akin to a PSL. That “right to buy a ticket fee” may just go to TM or Stubhub as opposed to the owner offsetting the cost.

 

As I’ve said before, to make a comparison to a PSL in the Bills situation, you must use a product that:

 

1) The venue was paid for by taxpayers for the benefit of the originating organization.  

2) AND an extra fee was charged that goes into the coffers of the originating organization.

3) AND the originating organization pockets the ticket money.

 

Ticket fees meet only ONE of those three items.

 

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

You’re trying too hard to be angry or knowledgeable.

 

I’m not angry at all.

 

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

With all of this outrage

 

There is no outrage. I’m not upset at all. I’m simply explaining that PSL’s are not common in business (outside of sports).

 

You continuously try to divert this conversation into an arena it was never intended to be in.

Edited March 29 by Einstein

[LabattBlue]

Not a fan of the County Executive, but good that he spoke up against this secretive process…

 

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/poloncarz-angry-at-bills-lack-of-transparency-with-season-ticket-holders-over-psls/article_7f472d36-ede8-11ee-9ee3-e3329259e090.html

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Doesn't matter what you say, critics will disregard any context and argue based upon what they want your position to be.  

 

🤔😁

 

 

Yes. So much information being skimmed and disregarded in order to move the conversation into a territory it was never originated to be in. This thread is a microcosm of the world.

 

Person A: Tomatoes are a fruit.

 

Person B: Ugh, but Apples are a red fruit and they don’t taste like tomatoes.

 

Person A: Okay? But we aren’t talking about Apples, we are talking about Tomatoes.

 

Person B: So you don’t like Tomatoes

 

Person A: I never said that. I just said they’re a fruit.

 

Person B: I’m a botanist, I have a degree in seeds, why are you so angry?

 

Person A: I’m not angry. I’m just telling you that Tomatoes are a fruit.

 

Person B:  What is your issue with tomatoes!?!?

 

Person A: Huh!? (this is where I am now)

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Said differently,”the money could be spent adding value to my home. I need to resurface the driveway and pool area.” Those same dollars will pay for my 2 PSLs. I’m not taking away from any necessities or strong “wants.” I’m electing to purchase these PSLs and waiting on the driveway. These are the types of decisions that many of us will make. People aren’t deciding between food and PSLs but they may be deciding between a vacation and PSLs. They are going to take up a portion of discretionary income that none of us have ever committed. 
 

 

Having season tickets for an NFL team - or even simply attending an NFL game - is a luxury. If people want to spend their money on that, that’s great. If they don't and would rather spend it on a vacation or a pool or save or invest it, then that is great too. To each their own. 

Edited March 29 by BarleyNY

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes. So much information being skimmed and disregarded in order to move the conversation into a territory it was never originated to be in. This thread is a microcosm of the world.

 

Person A: Tomatoes are a fruit.

 

Person B: Ugh, but Apples are a red fruit and they don’t taste like tomatoes.

 

Person A: Okay? But we aren’t talking about Apples, we are talking about Tomatoes.

 

Person B: So you don’t like Tomatoes

 

Person A: I never said that. I just said they’re a fruit.

 

Person B: I’m a botanist, I have a degree in seeds, why are you so angry?

 

Person A: I’m not angry. I’m just telling you that Tomatoes are a fruit.

 

Person B:  What is your issue with tomatoes!?!?

 

Person A: Huh!? (this is where I am now)

 

LMAO

 

You nailed that!

 

 

[papazoid]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes. So much information being skimmed and disregarded in order to move the conversation into a territory it was never originated to be in. This thread is a microcosm of the world.

 

Person A: Tomatoes are a fruit.

 

Person B: Ugh, but Apples are a red fruit and they don’t taste like tomatoes.

 

Person A: Okay? But we aren’t talking about Apples, we are talking about Tomatoes.

 

Person B: So you don’t like Tomatoes

 

Person A: I never said that. I just said they’re a fruit.

 

Person B: I’m a botanist, I have a degree in seeds, why are you so angry?

 

Person A: I’m not angry. I’m just telling you that Tomatoes are a fruit.

 

Person B:  What is your issue with tomatoes!?!?

 

Person A: Huh!? (this is where I am now)

 

so, back to the personal store license (PSL) required, in order to buy these tomatoes

[ALG1130]

I am seeing a number of people saying that this could be an out for The Bills, that if the seats don't sell, there is probably a clause that could get them out of Buffalo. Thoughts on this?

 

It's exhausting constantly worrying about this. 

[WotAGuy]

4 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I am seeing a number of people saying that this could be an out for The Bills, that if the seats don't sell, there is probably a clause that could get them out of Buffalo. Thoughts on this?

 

It's exhausting constantly worrying about this. 

Calling @Kirby Jackson

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Calling @Kirby Jackson

Yeah, it’s not. This isn’t some “trick” being played by the Pegulas. This is a process that MANY teams use to offset the private portion of the stadium financing. They pass it along to the consumers. The Bills will be here for a generation (at least).

 

They’ve started with the most expensive locations to discourage people from going back a tier. They don’t have a large buyer pool at the higher levels. They can’t have those people downgrading their spend or they won’t achieve their revenue objectives. They’re rolling it out in phases to maximize revenue and adjust pricing as needed.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Im not arguing for or against PSL’s. Im not telling anyone not to buy them.

 

Im not sure how to say this more clearly…
 

Im simply arguing that PSL’s are not the “norm” in business. 

 

Why would you do all that arguing over semantics?

 

It IS the norm for big business to gouge customers for whatever the market will bear.

 

It IS also the norm for big business to exploit and manipulate government........in ways ranging from skillfully avoiding taxes to benefiting directly from their application and WELL beyond.

 

Your are far too concerned with the tactics when it's all the same strategy.  

 

If you are "not arguing against" PSL's..........why is the distinction of tactics so important to you?

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Why would you do all that arguing over semantics?

 

It IS the norm for big business to gouge customers for whatever the market will bear.

 

It IS also the norm for big business to exploit and manipulate government........in ways ranging from skillfully avoiding taxes to benefiting directly from their application and WELL beyond.

 

Your are far too concerned with the tactics when it's all the same strategy.  

 

If you are "not arguing against" PSL's..........why is the distinction of tactics so important to you?

 

The argument is because he does not want to accept the facts that this is business as usual across many sectors.  That would reduce the fake outrage over nothing.

 

You can find examples across tons of business models - everyday things like Amazon, Costco, Sam’s Club, BJs, and places like Movie theaters, Barnes and Nobles, Gaming places and indoor kids bouncy centers.  
 

Most companies - especially large places like Amazon - build facilities in communities on the back of tax breaks, salary tax cuts, and funding from small business groups that all come from the taxpayer.  I mean look at all the hoops cut when Amazon even mentioned a Warehouse potentially getting built in NYS.  Everyone was throwing taxpayer money just for a shot - including gifting them huge amounts of property that was state and county owned.

 

Then the consumer - be it an Amazon subscriber or a Costco member - pays a fee typically yearly for the right to purchase items from these shops - with limited return or discounts.

 

There are gas stations that were built and received large payroll breaks - especially during Covid - to maintain employment levels and they have monthly and annual fees.  You still pay for gas, but get a 20 cent decrease compared to a non member.

 

There are tons of city/state owned Golf courses that were purchased with tax payer money, you still need a membership to guarantee tee times and you still need to pay for your round.

 

The model is all over - not just the NFL or European Football - they use different terms and in some cases slightly different tweaks, but it is not new nor exclusive to this situation.

 

The membership and pay model is common and most new construction be it a bar, a restaurant, a bookstore, a gas station, a football stadium, a event center - all get funding or reduced taxes, payroll breaks for a certain time, low cost or free loans from the city/state, etc.  the funding is not as open as the funding provided to the Bills, but there is money from the taxpayers involved in most builds.

 

There are plenty of reasons to be angry, but the misplaced anger and the anger over perceived slights is just so overwhelming in this thread.  The Bills could have done a better job, but at this point we know next to nothing and people are making up things to create anger.  @Kirby Jackson has talked and given insight from actually going through this process as an insider/employee and people try to argue minor semantics.  I will wait for my section to be called before I worry if my PSL is going to be $500, $1000, or  $10,000 or anyplace in between.  My outrage can wait until there is actually something to be upset about.  
 

 

 

 

Edited March 30 by Rochesterfan