Pass rusher. A huge need not being talked about enough

[GunnerBill]

Just now, mrags said:

Yeah I don’t accept that. He’s had a top 5-10 defense pretty much since he’s been the HC. He manages to do so much with every other position. From mid to late round picks and undrafted picks starting and playing well all across the board. He just can’t seem to ever find a legit pass rush when it matters unless he blitzes the house. It’s defensive scheme, game planning, and play calling. And it’s all on the shoulders of McD

 

Nope. It is on talent. Scheme can only hide so much. Up front it is about guys winning 1v1. Oliver apart nobody we have does so on a regular basis.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. It is on talent. Scheme can only hide so much. Up front it is about guys winning 1v1. Oliver apart nobody we have does so on a regular basis.

So McDermott's scheme works in the regular season and then Beane's failures show up in the postseason? How convenient!

[GunnerBill]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

So McDermott's scheme works in the regular season and then Beane's failures show up in the postseason? How convenient!

 

I think the limitations up front show in the regular season too. They don't have enough guys up there who win 1v1s. They have Oliver. They had half a season of Floyd and half a season of Von. Beyond that they have had a lot of decent players on that line but not guys who win 1v1 vs the best. It is the one place on defense where scheme ain't that much good to you unless you are sending more than they can block. Your guys just have to win 1v1 in big moments.

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So how many more early picks and FA dollars do they need to burn on dline until we have enough 'difference makers'? 

My guess is we’ll always be in the market for one until we get a difference maker.  I don’t think giving up on drafting the 2nd most important aspect of football is a good idea.  QB > Pass rush > everything else.  

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. It is on talent. Scheme can only hide so much. Up front it is about guys winning 1v1. Oliver apart nobody we have does so on a regular basis.

How do you explain a tip 5-10 defense since he got here with undrafted guys and mid to late round picks all over on the defense then. Guys like Jackson and Benford starting, guys like Bernard starting. It’s a lack of scheme and game plan in the front and it’s always been a problem for him. Even thought he’s had multiple early rd picks and mod to high priced FAs at the positions. 

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So McDermott's scheme works in the regular season and then Beane's failures show up in the postseason? How convenient!

And this 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the limitations up front show in the regular season too. They don't have enough guys up there who win 1v1s. They have Oliver. They had half a season of Floyd and half a season of Von. Beyond that they have had a lot of decent players on that line but not guys who win 1v1 vs the best. It is the one place on defense where scheme ain't that much good to you unless you are sending more than they can block. Your guys just have to win 1v1 in big moments.

They had the 4th most sacks in the league regular season 2023 and then just evaporated in the postseason like always

 

That is not a talent issue

[TheBeaneBandit]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

How do you explain a tip 5-10 defense since he got here with undrafted guys and mid to late round picks all over on the defense then. Guys like Jackson and Benford starting, guys like Bernard starting. It’s a lack of scheme and game plan in the front and it’s always been a problem for him. Even thought he’s had multiple early rd picks and mod to high priced FAs at the positions. 

And this 

They've gotten the benefit of playing a weak division and gems such as Skylar Thompson and late round rookie QBs. 

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

My guess is we’ll always be in the market for one until we get a difference maker.  I don’t think giving up on drafting the 2nd most important aspect of football is a good idea.  QB > Pass rush > everything else.  

I'd like to see them shift some of those assets toward offense and particularly wideout...because it doesn't seem to matter much whether Beane can't pick them or McDermott can't use/develop them but we don't get the payoff come postseason. Invest in the area where we actually do perform and profit is the play imo

[MasterStrategist]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They had the 4th most sacks in the league regular season 2023 and then just evaporated in the postseason like always

 

That is not a talent issue

Sure, but it's worth noting:

1. Regular season: we played 8 games against bottom 10 teams in sacks allowed, including 2 games VS absolute worst

 

2. Postseason:

   a. Steelers were top 10, in fewest sacks allowed (mostly due to quick passing attack, and got better/Top 5 during their last few games).  

   b. Chiefs: were a Top 2 team, behind us, for fewest sacks allowed.  Going against a ragtag group, non even close to full strength/regular season health

 

Not excuses, just a complete picture.  Competition matters, obviously we play better teams in postseason. 

 

Point is our team wasn't healthy this postseason AND once Ed was ineffective vs KC, nobody else was winning 1-1s.

 

We need either Von to get back to somewhere close to his prior form AND AJE to take another step.  OR we somehow find better talent than AJE this draft, which is possible in Rd 1

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Sure, but it's worth noting:

1. Regular season: we played 8 games against bottom 10 teams in sacks allowed, including 2 games VS absolute worst

 

2. Postseason:

   a. Steelers were top 10, in fewest sacks allowed (mostly due to quick passing attack, and got better/Top 5 during their last few games).  

   b. Chiefs: were a Top 2 team, behind us, for fewest sacks allowed.  Going against a ragtag group, non even close to full strength/regular season health

 

Not excuses, just a complete picture.  Competition matters, obviously we play better teams in postseason. 

 

Point is our team wasn't healthy this postseason AND once Ed was ineffective vs KC, nobody else was winning 1-1s.

 

We need either Von to get back to somewhere close to his prior form AND AJE to take another step.  OR we somehow find better talent than AJE this draft, which is possible in Rd 1

We watched them get bullied vs the Bengals backups and third stringers

 

It's not a talent issue

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We watched them get bullied vs the Bengals backups and third stringers

 

It's not a talent issue

Exactly. This lame duck coach and his conservative coaching in the most important games. All year he blitzed quite a bit. Really turned up the dial on pressure. Then in the playoffs he plays not to lose. Like a scared little girl 

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

So how many more early picks and FA dollars do they need to burn on dline until we have enough 'difference makers'? 

I would prefer that the front office prioritizes the offense - get Allen a couple of more weapons, get a big RB, and fortify the OL.

 

I don't think that the front office is particularly good at evaluating DL talent.

[Bermuda Triangle]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They had the 4th most sacks in the league regular season 2023 and then just evaporated in the postseason like always

 

That is not a talent issue

Well, you tend to play teams with better OLs and better QBs in the playoffs (aside from Skylar Thompson, Mason Rudolph and Mac Jones).

 

We have self-proclaimed football experts in spades here - if anyone can tell me what schemes McDermott/Frazier could have run, that would've resulted in Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Basham (LOL) showing up and making a difference in the Bills' playoff losses, please do.  Thanks in advance.🫡

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Well, you tend to play teams with better OLs and better QBs in the playoffs (aside from Skylar Thompson, Mason Rudolph and Mac Jones).

 

We have self-proclaimed football experts in spades here - if anyone can tell me what schemes McDermott/Frazier could have run, that would've resulted in Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Basham (LOL) showing up and making a difference in the Bills' playoff losses, please do.  Thanks in advance.🫡

He coaches and game plans and play calls way too conservatively in the playoffs. Always playing not to lose. 

[GASabresIUFan]

Do people here know that Rousseau played out of position last year because of Floyd and Miller and still graded out at one of the top Bills players last year?

 

Rousseau was given an 3.32 (out of 4) by the Athletic and an 85.6 (out of 100) by PFF.  While we could use a long-term replacement for Miller in the draft, Rousseau is not the issue.

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, mrags said:

He coaches and game plans and play calls way too conservatively in the playoffs. Always playing not to lose. 

Ok, if you can tell me what schemes McDermott/Frazier could have run, that would've resulted in Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Basham (LOL) showing up and making a difference in the Bills' playoff losses, please do.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They had the 4th most sacks in the league regular season 2023 and then just evaporated in the postseason like always

 

That is not a talent issue

 

It is. You play the best v the best in the playoffs. It comes down to guys winning their assignments up front and outside.

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Ok, if you can tell me what schemes McDermott/Frazier could have run, that would've resulted in Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Basham (LOL) showing up and making a difference in the Bills' playoff losses, please do.

 

 

Again. He is too conservative. He always coaches not to lose in big games. He never brings pressure. He rarely blitzes. He’s too scared to let up a big play. If McD is so good, but the talent is so weak he wouldn’t have a top 5-10 defense every single year. He wouldn’t have been near the top of the league in sacks last year but he was. Right until the playoffs and then he goes into a shell. Happens every year 

[BigAl2526]

I just don't see the elite edge rusher that could fill the Bills' dreams in this year's draft.  Chop Robinson is the only one who might drop to the Bills in round one, and he's not ideal.  I see guys who remind me of Epenesa.  They may be decent pass rushers, but with nowhere near the speed, bend and strength to be elite.  I'm hoping that Von Miller can have a bound back year, but I don't have any strong reasons to think he will.  I do expect that the Bills will have a solid overall defense, but they aren't going to put up gaudy sack numbers.    

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is. You play the best v the best in the playoffs. It comes down to guys winning their assignments up front and outside.

This is such a loser mindset. He is always top of the league in defense and was top 5 in sacks last year. Right until the playoffs then nothing.