Does Josh Allen still work as hard in the offseason?

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

100 percent. I can't stand the "Mahomes is the best cause he wins SB argument". It's so lazy

 

If people say Mahomes is better than Josh, that's fair of course. But to use the SB argument is extremely lazy 

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Your whole picture is counting stats. I don’t think those tell the whole story.

 

I will say it for a third time. If you believe that Tom Brady got almost twice as good at age 43 because his counting numbers were almost twice as good as the season prior, that’s your prerogative. I just think you’re completely wrong.  

I gave you actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing you are saying supports your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

You are obviously in the camp that Mahomes can't do any wrong no matter what the numbers say because right now your argument is "trust me bro" with nothing to back up what you're claiming.
 

So there's really no point arguing anymore .

 

 

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

I wish we can pin this post lol. Very well said

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

We have seen lesser QB’s beat greater QB’s with more talent around them. 
 

Nick Foles beat Brady in the SB. He doesn’t beat Brady, imo, without a nasty Eagles team around him (even the defense made a game ending play after getting dog walked for most of the game).

 

Two things can be true. 
 

You can beat a dynasty every once in a while. They aren’t invincible, they are just the closest thing to it in football.

 

When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem, which is why folks say “we just keep losing to the best of the best,” because that’s mostly true.

 

Brady stood in the way of a ton of very good QB’s having more success. Ben, Rivers, Brees, Ryan. It doesn’t mean they have no chance. It didn’t mean Brady never loses. Mahomes is the same way. 
 

Right now, the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, Texans and maybe the Jags are the only other teams with a chance vs the Chiefs. But I guarantee 15 years from now, Mahomes will have a winning playoff record vs all of them combined. Just like Brady does with all of his contemporaries.

 

This is obvious, I think.

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I gave you actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing you are saying supports your argument that Mahomes is getting better.

 

You are obviously in the camp that Mahomes can't do any wrong no matter what the numbers say because right now your argument is "trust me bro" with nothing to back up what you're claiming.

This is very sad lol. 
 

Are you going to keep running from the Brady comment, or just wave the white flag because you know it kills your “argument” in its crib?

 

Oh wait, no you’ll come back with “that’s irrelevant, we are not talking about Brady, you’re changing the subject.”

 

Some folks are just too easy lol

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We have seen lesser QB’s beat greater QB’s with more talent around them. 
 

Nick Foles beat Brady in the SB. He doesn’t beat Brady, imo, without a nasty Eagles team around him (even the defense made a game ending play after getting dog walked for most of the game).

 

Two things can be true. 
 

You can beat a dynasty every once in a while. They aren’t invincible, they are just the closest thing to it in football.

 

When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem, which is why folks say “we just keep losing to the best of the best,” because that’s mostly true.

 

Brady stood in the way of a ton of very good QB’s having more success. Ben, Rivers, Brees, Ryan. It doesn’t mean they have no chance. It didn’t mean Brady never loses. Mahomes is the same way. 
 

Right now, the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, Texans and maybe the Jags are the only other teams with a chance vs the Chiefs. But I guarantee 15 years from now, Mahomes will have a winning playoff record vs all of them combined. Just like Brady does with all of his contemporaries.

 

This is obvious, I think.

This is very sad lol. 
 

Are you going to keep running from the Brady comment, or just wave the white flag because you know it kills your “argument” in its crib?

 

Oh wait, no you’ll come back with “that’s irrelevant, we are not talking about Brady, you’re changing the subject.”

 

Some folks are just too easy lol

What is your Brady argument?

 

And what does that have anything to do with Mahomes in the point we are discussing? 
 

We are talking about Mahomes. Not Brady.. 

 

Your argument is Mahomes is getting better. Yet nothing backs up what you're saying.

 

So how does Tom Brady factor into any of that?^

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

What is your Brady argument?

 

And what does that have anything to do with Mahomes in the point we are discussing? 
 

We are talking about Mahomes. Not Brady.. 

 

Your argument is Mahomes is getting better. Yet nothing backs up what you're saying.

 

So how does Tom Brady factor into any of that?^

Ding ding ding.

 

tell him what he’s won, Johnny! 
 

You just got Papa Doc’d. Puppeteered. 
 

 

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Ding ding ding.

 

tell him what he’s won, Johnny! 
 

You just got Papa Doc’d. Puppeteered. 
 

 

What in gods name are you talking about? 😂

 

You are arguing that Brady had a bad year in 2019 and got way better in 2020?

 

1. He went to a COMPLETELY different passing system with completely different players and a different TEAM. The variability is of course going to be massive as it's comparing apples to oranges. Perkins offence to Air raid. 

 

2. Great QBs can have down years. Great players in any sports can have down years. Not "every year in linear".

 

Are you that naive that you're saying it's impossible for Mahomes to have a slightly down year compared to his usual MVP self? Even though stats and advanced stats show that it was the case?

Horrible comparison with the Tom Brady situation by the way. But nice try

 

Edited April 8 by BillsFan130

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

What in gods name are you talking about? 😂

 

You are arguing that Brady had a bad year in 2019 and got way better in 2020?

 

1. He went to a COMPLETELY different passing system with completely different players and a different TEAM. The variability is of course going to be massive as it's comparing apples to oranges. Perkins offence to Air raid. 

 

2. Great QBs can have down years. Great players in any sports can have down years. Not "every year in linear".

 

Are you that naive that you're saying it's impossible for Mahomes to have a slightly down year compared to his usual MVP self? Even though stats and advanced stats show that it was the case?

Horrible comparison with the Tom Brady situation by the way. But nice try

 

There we go, at least you finally addressed it. Only took me dunking on you to get you back in the game. 

 

QB’s can absolutely fluctuate up and down over their career. Totally agree.

 

I also agree that it would probably be fair to say Mahomes had a slightly worse year in 2023 compared to the rest of his career. 
 

I would argue a QB could have a down year for many reasons. Coaching change. Loss of talent. Just not up to their usual standards for a million reasons. I don’t think any of that means they are a worse QB. There are a lot of mental elements to the game that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. 
 

I think there’s a good chance Josh is a better QB next year in regards to his mastery of the game despite slumping in production compared to his career. 
 

That’s it.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

There we go, at least you finally addressed it. Only took me dunking on you to get you back in the game. 

 

QB’s can absolutely fluctuate up and down over their career. Totally agree.

 

I also agree that it would probably be fair to say Mahomes had a slightly worse year in 2023 compared to the rest of his career. 
 

I would argue a QB could have a down year for many reasons. Coaching change. Loss of talent. Just not up to their usual standards for a million reasons. I don’t think any of that means they are a worse QB. There are a lot of mental elements to the game that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. 
 

I think there’s a good chance Josh is a better QB next year in regards to his mastery of the game despite slumping in production compared to his career. 
 

That’s it.

Ok - It sounds like your argument is, Mahomes wasn't as good statically, but it wasn't his fault.

 

I am not even denying that a lot of that isn't true as he clearly didn't have the talent now compared to his mvp seasons

 

But it's also a hard argument to say "he's better" when nothing shows that.

Anyways we will agree to disagree. Have a good night man 

[HappyDays]

18 minutes ago, FireChans said:

When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem

 

I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.

 

I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.

[4merper4mer]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.

 

I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.

I gave you a red x but to clarify, the part about Purdy is completely accurate.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

And you know this how?

 

And for someone who would "give his life to win a Super Bowl" Diggs sure did disappear in the 2021, 2022, & 2023 playoffs.

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Mahomes is much better at taking what defenses give him. Recognizing how defenses are playing him and getting the ball to the right receiver against those defenses. He’s also much better at knowing game situations and what it takes to win as opposed to stats accumulation. That’s a large reason why KC is winning SB’s. It’s a team game but the QB holds the biggest key. Your team is not winning multiple SB’s if your QB is not operating at this mental level of the game. 

Josh’s biggest problem is not recognizing what’s given to him and taking it instead of forcing it further up the field. If he could figure this out we would be almost unstoppable.

[wppete]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Patrick Mahomes currently doing the same with his receivers 

https://atozsports.com/kansas-city/chiefs-patrick-mahomes-texas-throwing-session-nikko-remigio-justyn-ross-irv-smith-brock-bowers/

 

Meanwhile Josh is on a golf course somewhere...

Russel Wilson doing the same. 
 

https://www.nfl.com/news/steelers-te-pat-freiermuth-qb-russell-wilson-starting-to-build-that-connection-with-receivers

 

Josh is working on the Hadicap on the Greens ⛳️ 🏌🏿‍♂️ 

[90sBills]

17 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Josh’s biggest problem is not recognizing what’s given to him and taking it instead of forcing it further up the field. If he could figure this out we would be almost unstoppable.

Absolutely! Teams are playing to his tendencies for the deep shots. Hopefully he can improve on that (taking what’s there) next season. 

[Warriorspikes51]

11 hours ago, wppete said:

Russel Wilson doing the same. 
 

https://www.nfl.com/news/steelers-te-pat-freiermuth-qb-russell-wilson-starting-to-build-that-connection-with-receivers

 

Josh is working on the Hadicap on the Greens ⛳️ 🏌🏿‍♂️ 

I'm hoping we pull 2 WR's pretty high in the draft and we see Josh working with them in the near future

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

17 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine if we had Chris Jones and Travis Kelce over the past five years. Hell even just one of them and I am extremely confident we would have at least one Super Bowl win.

 

By the way some of these people will go in other threads saying that Beane hasn't done a good enough job finding elite players. But why does that matter if Mahomes is the main reason Allen hasn't won a Super Bowl? So deep down they know the real reason. It's just easier to boil it down to something simple.

The combination of Josh(by himself) winning against Andy, Patrick, Travis and Chris is both impossibly daunting and unrealistic. Josh needs a dynamic offensive HC. A WR1 who doesn't disrupt and a game wrecking defensive star. He has none of that.

[FireChans]

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know. But we happen to have the only QB in the league that can actually match Mahomes' play in the playoffs, so naturally it's frustrating that our current regime can't find a way to make that work. Assign blame to McDermott and Beane however you wish. Just don't be so simple as to say "Mahomes has 3 Super Bowls, Allen has 0, therefore Mahomes is in a completely different tier." Any difference in play between Allen and Mahomes is not the reason for the difference in their teams' results. To make that claim is to say that, like I said above, elite players and elite coaches don't matter.

 

I mean I've seen real people on this forum say that Brock Purdy deserved to finish ahead of Allen in MVP voting. That's how insane the conversation has gotten. I guess it needs to be reminded from time to time that QBs represent the plurality of their teams' success, not the majority.

I hear you. 
 

2 years ago I probably agreed with you. Now, I’m not so sure.
 

I wasn’t quick to crown Patty and Andy as the inheritors of the Pats Dynasty up until this last year. Now, I think they are.

 

They are like a Hydra at this point. They trade away the greatest WR weapon in recent memory and win two SB’s with an offense held together with duct tape. 
 

Kelce looks like he’s slowing down and heading to retirement, then rips off a massive playoff run. 
 

They tear down and rebuild the OL, the defense in a blink of an eye. 
 

And they aren’t even perfect. Toney is a zero now. Skyy Moore a bust. They lose Mecole Hardman to FA, get him back when he predictably flames out, and he catches the game winning pass in the SB.

 

I have no explanation and it sounds really crazy. But I do now think they are just head and shoulders above everyone, not in gamechanging talent alone. 
 

I could be wrong. Maybe they go 10 years without winning a ring again. I just don’t think so. And that’s not all Mahomes, it’s everything.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 3/21/2024 at 9:19 AM, 90sBills said:

You really think if something like that would happened without the Bills social media team being on top of it in this day and age?

 

Mahomes holds annual offseason camps to work with his receivers…current and newly added. He even works with draft prospects that would want to participate. Like I said not everyone is driven like this and it’s ok. But it’s clear he is driven to be the best and it shows on the field. 

Mahomes and his wrs were out of sync pretty much all season weren’t they lol I think this chiefs wrs season is pretty strong evidence that maybe offseason camps is too much football 

 

to use the bills as an example, someone like Gabe Davis played on the team for years and was still consistently on the wrong page.  Idk how much an unofficial throw the ball around type get together could’ve possibly helped 😂

then you’ve got your Stefon Diggs types that are closer to hitting a mental wall if they’re overworked and it can be a negative thing. 
 

I do think josh did extra work with Kincaid last offseason 

Edited April 8 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Warriorspikes51]

22 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

That's exactly how he felt. Diggs would give his life to win a Superbowl. Josh Allen is just happy to be in the conversation 

Based on what?  Tell us....WHO showed up in the playoffs, with the only exception being Cincinnati.  

Allen has played at an MVP level in the post-season  and is the ONLY QB besides Burrow who has shown he can go toe to toe with Mahomes. 

 

He had the game 2 years ago won  and was darn close this year if not for Dion bumping him / Diggs drop / Sherfield drops 

 

3 catchable passes....2 of them were dimes way downfield.  Both dropped.  

 

WHERE WAS DIGGS?   He has been COMPLETELY ERASED in all 3 games against KC and was not an impact player in most of our other playoff games

FIRST PLAY OF THE GAME AGAINST KC.....DIGGS PUTS THE BALL ON THE GROUND.  FUMBLE!!!  Imagine if KC had recovered that?   We might have lost the game in the 1st half 

Edited April 8 by Warriorspikes51

[90sBills]

27 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Mahomes and his wrs were out of sync pretty much all season weren’t they lol I think this chiefs wrs season is pretty strong evidence that maybe offseason camps is too much football 

 

to use the bills as an example, someone like Gabe Davis played on the team for years and was still consistently on the wrong page.  Idk how much an unofficial throw the ball around type get together could’ve possibly helped 😂

then you’ve got your Stefon Diggs types that are closer to hitting a mental wall if they’re overworked and it can be a negative thing. 
 

I do think josh did extra work with Kincaid last offseason 

Oh completely agree that this extra work may or may not help certain guys. While KC receivers were struggling last season I now see why Mahomes wouldn’t criticize them. They’re showing up for extra work to support him in the offseason so if anything it strengthens the bond of loyalty they have for each other. They ended winning the Superbowl so who’s to say their method didn’t work. 
 

What’s also interesting is Mahomes working out with potential draft prospects during these sessions. It’s like test driving a car for a few weeks. That’s how they ended up with Rashee Rice last year. 
 

Andy Reid has also said that their offseason Phase 1 plan gets implemented by Mahomes during this time. So when they officially meet for OTAs they’re ahead of the curve. I can see more and more QBs and teams will start doing this exercise more formally like Mahomes has. It’s a copy cat league and you can’t argue their success.