Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 7 Posted April 7 (edited) Josh Allen is not a hard worker in the mold of Brady, Manning or Montana. He's more of a roethlisberger, elway, kind of guy who just relies on his physical gifts. It shows in his play. He's kind of bad at pre snap reads and REALLY bad at post snap reads but gets away with it because of his physical gifts. What that means is that in a few years when those gifts deteriorate, his play will crater. Is what it is. Edited April 7 by Pine Barrens Mafia 1 2 1 2 Quote
wppete Posted April 7 Posted April 7 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Here you go https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29241841/josh-allen-stefon-diggs-bills-working-florida It's part of the Stefon Diggs I'm A Good New Teammate Tour Nice find. 4 years ago. Wonder why he has stopped doing these. Quote
HappyDays Posted April 7 Posted April 7 (edited) 17 hours ago, Brand J said: That opening Jets game last year was striking to me because I didn’t think a 6 year superstar QB could still play that badly. Mahomes played that badly in a couple games too. He was the main reason they lost to the Broncos and Raiders, and almost lost to the Jets. You have to accept that Allen and Mahomes are never going to be as consistent as Brady was. But when they're at the top of their game they're better than anyone that's ever done it. A lot of Bills fans have, well, Bills fan syndrome where they only watch every snap that our guy takes and only highlights of the other guy. That skews perceptions. But on the whole Allen and Mahomes have been pretty much equivalent QBs since 2021 in terms of their actual play on the field. I don't know what Allen's workout regiment looks like. He started the season with bad games in 2021 and 2023, but started with excellent games in 2020 and 2022. There's no pattern to discern. All I know is a QB doesn't produce like he has without seriously working at it. And his play undoubtedly has been Super Bowl caliber. It's now a matter of the rest of the team catching up to him. Edited April 7 by HappyDays Quote
Another Fan Posted April 7 Posted April 7 On 3/25/2024 at 3:43 PM, 90sBills said: Have a feeling this thread will drag into next offseason…or another iteration of this I’m sure. Yep 😊 2 Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted April 7 Posted April 7 1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: Josh Allen is not a hard worker in the mold of Brady, Manning or Montana. He's more of a roethlisberger, elway, kind of guy who just relies on his physical gifts. It shows in his play. He's kind of bad at pre snap reads and REALLY bad at post snap reads but gets away with it because of his physical gifts. What that means is that in a few years when those gifts deteriorate, his play will crater. Is what it is. Funny...Elway got better once he was in the WCO amd Shanahan. He didn't get worse. It fascinates me that fans are bitching about the offseason habits of, at worst, a top 3 QB in the NFL. Who BTW, led the NFL in total touchdowns despite having a total assclown for an OC the 1st half of the season along with a primadona #2 WR being a douche while getting paid like a #1. 1 1 Quote
Jrb1979 Posted April 7 Posted April 7 8 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: Funny...Elway got better once he was in the WCO amd Shanahan. He didn't get worse. It fascinates me that fans are bitching about the offseason habits of, at worst, a top 3 QB in the NFL. Who BTW, led the NFL in total touchdowns despite having a total assclown for an OC the 1st half of the season along with a primadona #2 WR being a douche while getting paid like a #1. Nobody is saying he isn't a top 3 QB. What they are saying is Allen is not a Brady or Mahomes or Stroud that spends a lot of time watching film. Nothing wrong with that. He relies a lot on his physical skills. 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted April 7 Posted April 7 1 hour ago, wppete said: Nice find. 4 years ago. Wonder why he has stopped doing these. You mean Allen? Or Diggs, the guy who has never shown up for a voluntary OTA? 1 Quote
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 7 Posted April 7 18 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: Funny...Elway got better once he was in the WCO amd Shanahan. He didn't get worse. It fascinates me that fans are bitching about the offseason habits of, at worst, a top 3 QB in the NFL. Who BTW, led the NFL in total touchdowns despite having a total assclown for an OC the 1st half of the season along with a primadona #2 WR being a douche while getting paid like a #1. Imagine what he could do if he had the film study habits of Brady 1 Quote
wppete Posted April 7 Posted April 7 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: You mean Allen? Or Diggs, the guy who has never shown up for a voluntary OTA? I mean Allen. Diggs doesn’t play for the Bills anymore. 1 Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted April 7 Posted April 7 8 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: Imagine what he could do if he had the film study habits of Brady He is what he is. I'm behind him and however he does his training 100% 1 Quote
ColoradoBills Posted April 7 Posted April 7 11 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: Imagine what he could do if he had the film study habits of Brady 2 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted April 7 Posted April 7 (edited) 21 hours ago, FireChans said: I think Mahomes has improved since 2018, personally. He had that weird stretch of 2021 where teams forced him to be disciplined and play more in the system and take easy throws, and he struggled for awhile before coming out the other side. How has Mahomes improved out of curiosity? His TDS are way down and his turnovers were up last year. Now I am not that closed minded and just look at "stats". A lot of those reasons why those stats are going the opposite way is because he had way more playmakers in 2018/2020 compared to 2023. But He doesn't have as many special plays and he forces the ball into tighter areas which results in more negative plays. That part ^is objective and you can't argue that. Now how much of that is him vs the lack of playmakers around him compared to 2018-2020? That's the big question . But there is absolutely nothing quantifiable to say he has improved. (And please don't say "he has won SBs" , because football is the ultimate team game and it's such a lazy argument ) Edited April 7 by BillsFan130 Quote
FireChans Posted April 7 Posted April 7 11 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: How has Mahomes improved out of curiosity? His TDS are way down and his turnovers were up last year. Now I am not that closed minded and just look at "stats". A lot of those reasons why those stats are going the opposite way is because he had way more playmakers in 2018/2020 compared to 2023. But He doesn't have as many special plays and he forces the ball into tighter areas which results in more negative plays. That part ^is objective and you can't argue that. Now how much of that is him vs the lack of playmakers around him compared to 2018-2020? That's the big question . But there is absolutely nothing quantifiable to say he has improved. (And please don't say "he has won SBs" , because football is the ultimate team game and it's such a lazy argument ) Imo, he has gotten much better at playing within the system. When Mahomes first came on the scene, he was able to play outside of structure and make teams pay for giving him big plays down field. Around 2021, teams basically forced him to play in the system. They switched to majority deep shell coverage, and made him be patient (not dissimilar to what they have done with Josh). Mahomes initially struggled, culminating in getting CRUSHED by the Titans in October. Then, of course, they get rid of Hill, Kelce gets old and he has to pick his spots much more carefully. And he has. 2 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted April 7 Posted April 7 (edited) 14 minutes ago, FireChans said: Imo, he has gotten much better at playing within the system. When Mahomes first came on the scene, he was able to play outside of structure and make teams pay for giving him big plays down field. Around 2021, teams basically forced him to play in the system. They switched to majority deep shell coverage, and made him be patient (not dissimilar to what they have done with Josh). Mahomes initially struggled, culminating in getting CRUSHED by the Titans in October. Then, of course, they get rid of Hill, Kelce gets old and he has to pick his spots much more carefully. And he has. I definitely agree with most of that, but I'm not sure how you can say he's improved overall. I am not saying he got worse as he set the bar ridiculously high. But improved from His MVP seasons? No way IMO. He had 27 TDs last season. Teams play Josh the same they play Mahomes for the most part and Josh had 44 Edited April 7 by BillsFan130 Quote
FireChans Posted April 7 Posted April 7 35 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: I definitely agree with most of that, but I'm not sure how you can say he's improved overall. I am not saying he got worse as he set the bar ridiculously high. But improved from His MVP seasons? No way IMO. He had 27 TDs last season. Teams play Josh the same they play Mahomes for the most part and Josh had 44 So if Josh’s production takes a dip this year because he has no WR’s to throw to, he’s a worse QB? I don’t agree with that. Quote
K D Posted April 7 Posted April 7 6 hours ago, wppete said: I don’t think i have ever heard Josh Allen do this in the offseason. Patrick Mahomes currently doing the same with his receivers https://atozsports.com/kansas-city/chiefs-patrick-mahomes-texas-throwing-session-nikko-remigio-justyn-ross-irv-smith-brock-bowers/ Meanwhile Josh is on a golf course somewhere... 1 3 Quote
Beck Water Posted April 7 Posted April 7 3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said: Josh Allen is not a hard worker in the mold of Brady, Manning or Montana. He's more of a roethlisberger, elway, kind of guy who just relies on his physical gifts. It shows in his play. He's kind of bad at pre snap reads and REALLY bad at post snap reads but gets away with it because of his physical gifts. What that means is that in a few years when those gifts deteriorate, his play will crater. Is what it is. Right-o, that's why he played a legendary game in NE where the Bills scored a TD on every drive - because he's "kind of bad" at pre-snap reads and "really bad" at post snap reads. Whatever you say 1 1 Quote
wppete Posted April 7 Posted April 7 11 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Patrick Mahomes currently doing the same with his receivers https://atozsports.com/kansas-city/chiefs-patrick-mahomes-texas-throwing-session-nikko-remigio-justyn-ross-irv-smith-brock-bowers/ Meanwhile Josh is on a golf course somewhere... Yea its starting to get worrisome, especially learning about his offseason training program and how disorganized he is. 1 1 Quote
BillMafia716ix Posted April 7 Posted April 7 14 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: Patrick Mahomes currently doing the same with his receivers https://atozsports.com/kansas-city/chiefs-patrick-mahomes-texas-throwing-session-nikko-remigio-justyn-ross-irv-smith-brock-bowers/ Meanwhile Josh is on a golf course somewhere... I’ll admit I am a little skeptical of why we never hear about Josh and the WR’s getting together and working together in the offseason. Maybe that’s why there was such a disconnect between Diggs/Allen and caused friction. Maybe he felt Josh didn’t take things as serious as him. 1 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted April 7 Posted April 7 (edited) 25 minutes ago, FireChans said: So if Josh’s production takes a dip this year because he has no WR’s to throw to, he’s a worse QB? I don’t agree with that. No , please read my original message where I said it's not all stats. But stats do have to be involved to a certain degree But 50 plus TdS to 27 last year and you say he's improved? Thats almost a 50 percent drop off. Not too mention less yards and more turnovers. I think you have to bring something more to the table opposed to just "he plays better in the system" which is a pretty subjective argument Edited April 7 by BillsFan130 Quote
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