Does Josh Allen still work as hard in the offseason?

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I am shocked that someone thinks that Mahomes and Allen are worse QB's today than they were 4-5 years ago because they haven't had better statistical outputs than their best seasons (2018 and 2020, respectively)

 

Wild take, but I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

 

That's literally the argument you made against Allen.....  unless you were just pointing out an argument without believing it? The tone of your post suggested to me that you thought Allen is not working hard in the offseason. Apologies if I misunderstood

 

Quote

 

Thesis:

I’m not sure if Allen works hard or not during the off-season 

Evidence: 

No unofficial WR minicamp videos

No workout videos

Talks about focusing on healing and time off instead of conditioning in the off-season 

Has not improved as a QB since 2020

 

 

Mahomes has been the best QB in the league since 2018 and Allen has been the 2nd best since 2020. Those were also their best individual seasons. It's technically true to say they haven't improved since those seasons, but it's an incredibly disingenuous argument to make.

[Billy Claude]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Completely out of context

 

Allen said he is played differently than every other QB so film isn't giving him what it does to most

 

Because he isn't played the same 

 

I am saying if any other qb says this they would get laughed at.   I am sure teams don't play Kyler Murray the same way as other qbs either.

 

If you feel that is reasonable, fine, for me, this is the kind of excuse you expect from a high schooler, not from someone who could and should be an all time great.

 

I repeat, Allen has very few turnovers in the playoffs.  You can't be at the top of your game all the time, but that says if he is prepared and focussed he can be much more consistent.

Edited April 7 by Billy Claude

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I am saying if any other qb says this they would get laughed at.   I am sure teams don't play Kyler Murray the same way as other qbs either.

 

If you feel that is reasonable, fine, for me, this is the kind of excuse you expect from a high schooler, not from someone who could and should be an all time great.

 

I repeat, Allen has very few turnovers in the playoffs.  You can't be at the top of your game all the time, but that says if he is prepared and focussed he can be more consistent.

Listen he certainly can be more dialed in... He's very relaxed at times which is what you want but he's too relaxed at times 

 

When he is focused he is the best in the world ... Remember he's 27.. i have no doubt with maturity he will be the best at 30

[Billy Claude]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Listen he certainly can be more dialed in... He's very relaxed at times which is what you want but he's too relaxed at times 

 

When he is focused he is the best in the world ... Remember he's 27.. i have no doubt with maturity he will be the best at 30

 

OK, then we partially agree then.

 

I just find his explanations, i.e., excuses, for not watching film cringe-worthy.  My test is to put the words into the mouth of Kyler Murray and ask how people would respond to that.   Kyler Murray watches film too with his coaches etc.., what Murray was not watching was the stuff they told him to review on his own.  If it was that noticeable thatthe others QBs in the Bill's QB room were teasing Allen about it and that McAfee heard about it,  Allen must have watched very little film indeed. Hopefully with the ex-gf and Diggs drama gone, it will be easier for Allen to focus.

 

I feel that all those QBs working out with their receivers stuff is just for show anyway.  Even if Allen had wanted to, chances are Diggs wouldn't have shown up and all you would get is questions about why Diggs wasn't there.  

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by Billy Claude

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

OK, then we partially agree then.

 

I just find his explanations, i.e., excuses, for not watching film cringe-worthy.  My test is to put the words into the mouth of Kyler Murray and ask how people would respond to that.   Kyler Murray watches film too with his coaches etc.., what Murray was not watching was the stuff they told him to review on his own.  If it was that noticeable thatthe others QBs in the Bill's QB room were teasing Allen about it and that McAfee heard about it,  Allen must have watched very little film indeed. Hopefully with the ex-gf and Diggs drama gone, it will be easier for Allen to focus.

 

I don't think they are close to being the same case

 

These NFL teams have recorders which know how long players watch film for...

 

Kyler Murray watched very little film.. so much so they put it into his contract he had to.. Johnny manziel when they reviewed watched zero film

 

Josh Allen has statistically became elite in the short game... Impossible to do unless you do a lot of film work

 

There is a difference between watching film on your upcoming opponent... And watching NFL film in general

 

His week-to-week opponent doesn't matter as much because he is played so uniquely... What he needs to do is watch tape of how ,30 other teams has played him across years

 

Which he obviously does because he's a world-class quarterback

 

Watching clips of the Patriots versus the jaguars doesn't do much... He needs to watch clips of the Patriots versus Josh Allen

 

Because he is played so uniquely

Edited April 7 by Buffalo716

[Billy Claude]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't think they are close to being the same case

 

These NFL teams have recorders which know how long players watch film for...

 

Kyler Murray watched very little film.. so much so they put it into his contract he had to.. Johnny manziel when they reviewed watched zero film

 

Josh Allen has statistically became elite in the short game... Impossible to do unless you do a lot of film work

 

There is a difference between watching film on your upcoming opponent... And watching NFL film in general

 

His week-to-week opponent doesn't matter as much because he is played so uniquely... What he needs to do is watch tape of how 25 other teams has played him across years

 

Which he obviously does because he's a world-class quarterback

 

I have to disagree  Not that Allen is not a world class quarterback, that this by itself means he definitely must be watching enough film.  I agree that he is probably not watching it at Johnny Manziel level.  I hate to always go back to the same point, but teams play Kyler Murray uniquely also. Allen's film watching habits were so poor that his friends in the Bills QB room tease him about it and a very friendly interviewer asks him about it, that must have been pretty noticeable indeed.

 

I am not aware that he is statistically elite in the short game.  I have not looked at the data but it doesn't seem like it from the eye-test, which of course could be wrong.  I agree that he definitely looked better in the short game after Brady came in and there were some games where the short game really looked very good.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by Billy Claude

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I have to disagree  Not that Allen is not a world class quarterback, that this by itself means he definitely must be watching enough film.  I agree that he is probably not watching it at Johnny Manziel level.  I hate to always go back to the same point, but teams play Kyler Murray uniquely also. Allen's film watching habits were so poor that his friends in the Bills QB room tease him about it and a very friendly interviewer asks him about it, that must have been pretty noticeable indeed.

 

I am not aware that he is statistically elite in the short game.  I have not looked at the data but it doesn't seem like it from the eye-test, which of course could be wrong.  I agree that he definitely looked better in the short game after Brady came in and there were some games where the short game really looked very good.

 

 

 

 

 

He has been statistically elite in the short game since year three... 

 

It's dipped a little bit since Beasley has gone but still in the top echelon of NFL quarterbacks

 

He's on Pace to have the most touchdowns in NFL history... We need to start supporting the most talented player in the NFL.. not knocking a few of his faults

 

Which are more quirks that he never got to work out on the bench... So they pop up under stressful situations

 

The longer professional quarterback has to learn without being thrown to the fire he can work out bad quirks.. Josh was thrown to the fire, survived, became a star... But he still has quirks

 

Edited April 7 by Buffalo716

[Billy Claude]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He has been statistically elite in the short game since year three... 

 

It's dipped a little bit since Beasley has gone but still in the top echelon of NFL quarterbacks

 

He's on Pace to have the most touchdowns in NFL history... We need to start supporting the most talented player in the NFL.. not knocking a few of his faults

 

Which are more quirks that he never got to work out on the bench... So they pop up under stressful situations

 

The longer professional quarterback has to learn without being thrown to the fire he can work out bad quirks.. Josh was thrown to the fire, survived, became a star... But he still has quirks

 

 

I am not saying Allen is not a elite QB.   He 100% is, I feel he is the second  best QB in the league.  I can't regard Burrows as second best since he misses a third of the games and is hobbling and ineffective for another third.

 

What I  don't understand is the concept of (A) Allen being pretty much perfect as he is (which you are not saying), or (B) somehow, if he tries to improve on the things he is not good it, it would kill his game.

 

I guess I don't know what short game statistics you are talking about.   To me, statistically elite in the short game would mean getting the ball out quickly and hitting receivers in stride so that they have good YAC.   Both of those have never been  Allen's strong points and I see very little evidence that it is getting a lot better, except for a game or two here and there.  Ok. maybe qualify it a litte, it did look a litte better under Brady though I would need to see more games before we can say anything.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Billy Claude

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

That's literally the argument you made against Allen.....  unless you were just pointing out an argument without believing it? The tone of your post suggested to me that you thought Allen is not working hard in the offseason. Apologies if I misunderstood

 

 

Mahomes has been the best QB in the league since 2018 and Allen has been the 2nd best since 2020. Those were also their best individual seasons. It's technically true to say they haven't improved since those seasons, but it's an incredibly disingenuous argument to make.

My point was not a statistical one.

 

I asked if anyone thought he was “better as a passer,” earlier upthread compared to 2020. 
 

So I will ask you again. Do you think Josh Allen has gotten better as a passer since 2020?

 

I think numbers can be very dependent on the talent level of your team. I could easily forsee a situation where Allen is a better QB in 2024 but it’s not reflected in his numbers because he no longer has the elite #1 WR he has had in seasons past. There are many facets of a QB’s game, and lots of things they can tighten up on over the course of their careers.

 

Brady is a perfect example. Did he regress in 2019 and turn back into an elite player in 2020? Or was he the same guy with a complete overhaul in talent around him? 

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

 

I am not saying Allen is not a elite QB.   He 100% is, I feel he is the second  best QB in the league.  I can't regard Burrows as second best since he misses a third of the games and is hobbling and ineffective for another third.

 

What I  don't understand is the concept of (A) Allen being pretty much perfect as he is (which you are not saying), or (B) somehow, if he tries to improve on the things he is not good it, it would kill his game.

 

I guess I don't know what short game statistics you are talking about.   To me, statistically elite in the short game would mean getting the ball out quickly and hitting receivers in stride so that they have good YAC.   Both of those have never been  Allen's strong points and I see very little evidence that it is getting a lot better, except for a game or two here and there.  Ok. maybe qualify it a litte, it did look a litte better under Brady though I would need to see more games before we can say anything.

 

 

Of course he can improve.. Tom Brady could improve so could Peyton Manning

 

Josh Allen went from a short game weakness his first few years... To leading the AFC in pass rating and completion percentage under 10 yards by year three

 

I'd say that is Master class improvement

 

He certainly can improve and he has gotten better at areas of his game every single year even if stats don't show it

 

I've been adamant he will be all world by 30 or 31.. he will have 60 passing touchdowns

 

I've said it here before and I'll throw it out again

 

Josh Allen at age 31 season will have 60 touchdowns

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He has been statistically elite in the short game since year three... 

 

It's dipped a little bit since Beasley has gone but still in the top echelon of NFL quarterbacks

 

He's on Pace to have the most touchdowns in NFL history... We need to start supporting the most talented player in the NFL.. not knocking a few of his faults

 

Which are more quirks that he never got to work out on the bench... So they pop up under stressful situations

 

The longer professional quarterback has to learn without being thrown to the fire he can work out bad quirks.. Josh was thrown to the fire, survived, became a star... But he still has quirks

 

The most supportive thing we can do is support him to continue improving and working on his game to achieve the ultimate goal, isn’t it?

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

The most supportive thing we can do is support him to continue improving and working on his game to achieve the ultimate goal, isn’t it?

To think he doesn't work his ass off as crazy.. he certainly has one of the best work ethics ever seeing he went from zero star recruit to NFL superstar

 

He's allowed to have a life

 

And yes I want him to keep improving because he can be the best the world has ever seen

Edited April 7 by Buffalo716

[Billy Claude]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course he can improve.. Tom Brady could improve so could Peyton Manning

 

Josh Allen went from a short game weakness his first few years... To leading the AFC in pass rating and completion percentage under 10 yards by year three

 

I'd say that is Master class improvement

 

He certainly can improve and he has gotten better at areas of his game every single year even if stats don't show it

 

I've been adamant he will be all world by 30 or 31.. he will have 60 passing touchdowns

 

I've said it here before and I'll throw it out again

 

Josh Allen at age 31 season will have 60 touchdowns

 

I had assumed you were talking about his short game statistics the two or three seasons where he was pretty much last in YAC.  No one is arguing that he didn't improve in all facets of his game from 1998 to 2000.   Note that 2000 was also the year that he spent pretty much a whole month in lock down where he did nothing but eat and sleep football.

 

 

Edited April 7 by Billy Claude

[Kaenon]

As long as we have Josh, we're fine.

[90sBills]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I've been adamant he will be all world by 30 or 31.. he will have 60 passing touchdowns

 

I've said it here before and I'll throw it out again

 

Josh Allen at age 31 season will have 60 touchdowns

He has never thrown for 40 TDs in is career but you think he’ll have 60 four years from now? Maybe if he’s the type of personality that dedicates himself to being the best ever he might have chance. At the rate he’s going he has a better chance to get his golf index down to 2 by age 31 than throwing for 60 TDs. 

1 hour ago, Kaenon said:

As long as we have Josh, we're fine.

Yes. We’ll be fine winning the division and getting knocked out in the playoffs. The Bears, Falcons, Colts would love to be us. 

[wppete]

I don’t think i have ever heard Josh Allen do this in the offseason. 
 

 

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

He has never thrown for 40 TDs in is career but you think he’ll have 60 four years from now? Maybe if he’s the type of personality that dedicates himself to being the best ever he might have chance. At the rate he’s going he has a better chance to get his golf index down to 2 by age 31 than throwing for 60 TDs. 

Yes. We’ll be fine winning the division and getting knocked out in the playoffs. The Bears, Falcons, Colts would love to be us. 

 

So what are you saying the Bills should do to push through? Trade Josh?

[90sBills]

49 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

So what are you saying the Bills should do to push through? Trade Josh?

No. I’m saying we can do a lot better as a team. Including Allen. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

I don’t think i have ever heard Josh Allen do this in the offseason. 
 

 

Here you go

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29241841/josh-allen-stefon-diggs-bills-working-florida

 

It's part of the Stefon Diggs I'm A Good New Teammate Tour

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

No. I’m saying we can do a lot better as a team. Including Allen. 

 

You're just assuming, as is everyone in the thread, that Josh can do better. That he isn't at his peak. If he is, he's still more than good enough to win the Super Bowl. The question is are the players and coaching around him.

Edited April 7 by UKBillFan