Does Josh Allen still work as hard in the offseason?

[Billy Claude]

4 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I’m not sure if the watching film part is true but there seems to be a lot of smoke about it since last season. What’s clearly accurate is his deficiencies in processing reads and game situational awareness. In short the mental part of being an elite qb. Hoping that he recognizes that and is doing everything he can to improve.

 

Allen specifically said he doesn't want to watch "too much" film.  I am sure Kyler Murray feels the same way.

 

 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Allen specifically said he doesn't want to watch "too much" film.  I am sure Kyler Murray feels the same way.

 

 

That doesn’t mean he won’t watch any film. Can’t compare that to Kyler who has it written  in his contract to study. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

12 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

Last off-season there was a very similar thread after a "story" from Jason Whitlock about the Diggs-Allen relationship.  I understand that Jason Whitlock is not very reliable and I am certainly not saying Whitlock was correct but it definitely counts as a whisper.  We had essentially the same thread last off-season and that didn't come out of a vacuum.

 

As stated upthread,  I don't begrudge him taking a few months off and having a little fun to recover mind and body. I am much more concerned about  how little film he watched which was confirmed on the McAfee show.   McAfee asked Allen about it, which  means that Allen not watching much film is a well known fact around the NFL. There was also a story that the backup QBs (Case Keenum and Matt Barkley) used to tease Allen about how little flim he watches. These would also count as whispers.

 

Before people come back with but he explains that "I don't watch a lot of film because teams play me differently",  IMHO, that is a pure BS excuse. 

 

 

Whitlock is less credible than the average TBD poster. 

 

Whitlock admitted to making up a story about Diggs wanting out of Buffalo to live in a bigger/better city (better night life, better strip clubs, etc.). He then pivots and says the REAL reason Diggs wants out is because everybody on the team knows that Allen doesn't have that dog in him. That he doesn't care about the game or prepare the way other top QBs do. That everyone in the Bills lockerroom (players/coaches) know this and are ok with letting Josh skate by on pure talent. 

 

https://www.theherdnow.com/content/2023-09-01-jason-whitlock-the-real-reason-stefon-diggs-wants-to-abandon-josh-allen/

 

What was the story about Keenum and Barkley teasing Allen over him not watching film? I don't remember that one and would like to read up on it. Can't find anything online.

 

Do you have a link for the McAfee quote? As I remember it Josh said he doesn't put a ton of stock into film study because once he learns a defenses tendencies, they'll switch it up and try and outsmart each other. Turns into a "knowing that you know, that i know, that you know, I'll do THIS instead" and that Josh would rather just play organically. 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

19 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m bumping it. I’m BUMPING IT!

 

 

There’s two camps here

 

Thesis:

I’m not sure if Allen works hard or not during the off-season 

Evidence: 

No unofficial WR minicamp videos

No workout videos

Talks about focusing on healing and time off instead of conditioning in the off-season 

Has not improved as a QB since 2020

 

Thesis:

Allen definitely works hard in the off-season

 

Evidence:

I hope he does

11 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

As I remember it Josh said he doesn't put a ton of stock into film study because once he learns a defenses tendencies, they'll switch it up and try and outsmart each other. Turns into a "knowing that you know, that i know, that you know, I'll do THIS instead" and that Josh would rather just play organically. 

Do you think the other great QB’s believe this? The ones with multiple titles?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

56 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There’s two camps here

 

Thesis:

I’m not sure if Allen works hard or not during the off-season 

Evidence: 

No unofficial WR minicamp videos

No workout videos

Talks about focusing on healing and time off instead of conditioning in the off-season 

Has not improved as a QB since 2020

 

Thesis:

Allen definitely works hard in the off-season

 

Evidence:

I hope he does

Do you think the other great QB’s believe this? The ones with multiple titles?

Forgot the main evidence.

 

Allen said he doesn’t do as much as use to do.

[amprov56]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:57 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Let me start by saying I come in peace! Just having a conversation here. I know this is kind of a negative Josh post.

 

What do you think? Does it matter to you if he doesn’t train or work on his game as much as he use to?

 

Are you serious?

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

There’s two camps here

 

Thesis:

I’m not sure if Allen works hard or not during the off-season 

Evidence: 

No unofficial WR minicamp videos

No workout videos

Talks about focusing on healing and time off instead of conditioning in the off-season 

Has not improved as a QB since 2020

 

Thesis:

Allen definitely works hard in the off-season

 

Evidence:

I hope he does

Do you think the other great QB’s believe this? The ones with multiple titles?

 

I'll agree that Josh hasn't improved since 2020, but that's like saying Mahomes hasn't improved since 2018. These guys are at the peak of the profession. There's not really anywhere to go from there. 

 

Whatever Josh is doing is working and it's more than good enough to win a SB

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I'll agree that Josh hasn't improved since 2020, but that's like saying Mahomes hasn't improved since 2018. These guys are at the peak of the profession. There's not really anywhere to go from there. 

 

Whatever Josh is doing is working and it's more than good enough to win a SB

I think Mahomes has improved since 2018, personally.

 

He had that weird stretch of 2021 where teams forced him to be disciplined and play more in the system and take easy throws, and he struggled for awhile before coming out the other side. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think Mahomes has improved since 2018, personally.

 

He had that weird stretch of 2021 where teams forced him to be disciplined and play more in the system and take easy throws, and he struggled for awhile before coming out the other side. 

 

Mahomes stats don't back that up at all. In fact you could say he's regressed since 2018 rather than just plateaued. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Mahomes stats don't back that up at all. In fact you could say he's regressed since 2018 rather than just plateaued. 

Watching him play backs it up.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Watching him play backs it up.

 

Who needs facts and stats when you can 'just watch'?

 

Mahomes 2018 season is on a very short list for best season by any QB in NFL history.

 

The fact (yes, fact) that he hasn't improved on that season doesn't mean that he's lazy in the offseason or doesn't watch enough film.

 

It just means he set the bar so high it's almost impossible to improve on it. 

 

Josh's play has been about the same for 4 years in a row now. When you're one of the 3 best QBs in the league playing about the same not improving is still a VERY GOOD thing. Arguing otherwise and trying to present that as proof that Josh doesn't put in the off-field work is just silly. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Who needs facts and stats when you can 'just watch'?

 

Mahomes 2018 season is on a very short list for best season by any QB in NFL history.

 

The fact (yes, fact) that he hasn't improved on that season doesn't mean that he's lazy in the offseason or doesn't watch enough film.

 

It just means he set the bar so high it's almost impossible to improve on it. 

 

Josh's play has been about the same for 4 years in a row now. When you're one of the 3 best QBs in the league playing about the same not improving is still a VERY GOOD thing. Arguing otherwise and trying to present that as proof that Josh doesn't put in the off-field work is just silly. 

Do you think Mahomes has regressed since 2018?

 

I mean, the stats say he has, right? That’s an inarguable fact?

[90sBills]

10 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Who needs facts and stats when you can 'just watch'?

 

Mahomes 2018 season is on a very short list for best season by any QB in NFL history.

 

The fact (yes, fact) that he hasn't improved on that season doesn't mean that he's lazy in the offseason or doesn't watch enough film.

 

It just means he set the bar so high it's almost impossible to improve on it. 

 

Josh's play has been about the same for 4 years in a row now. When you're one of the 3 best QBs in the league playing about the same not improving is still a VERY GOOD thing. Arguing otherwise and trying to present that as proof that Josh doesn't put in the off-field work is just silly. 

By this logic who needs to watch games when you can just look at stats. This is a very nutty argument you’re making. Especially for the qb position.

 

Both guys are better than their earlier selves. 

[Goin Breakdown]

Why are we so upset when anyone questions if Josh works hard in the offseason?  I know it's because he's our quarterback. Period. 
Josh said it himself, reports have come out with players perhaps stating it (Diggs, per his argument with Josh) 

We are fans. What the heck do we know that these people closer to the team don't?  Just seems like such a stupid waste of time to argue with other fans about. I sure hope he puts in the work. I think Josh is an incredible talent, one of the best. Other than that, what can I or anyone else personally do about any of it? Other than argue

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Do you think Mahomes has regressed since 2018?

 

I mean, the stats say he has, right? That’s an inarguable fact?

 

Yes he has regressed since then. That's his only season that is in the top 5 for best seasons by a QB in NFL history. 

 

Mahomes could never improve on that season and still have the greatest career of all time. 

 

Josh could never improve on his 2020 season and still be a HOF QB. 

 

That's why the statement that Josh hasn't improved on his 2020 season is asinine. 

 

[Brand J]

13 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Yes he has regressed since then. That's his only season that is in the top 5 for best seasons by a QB in NFL history. 

 

Mahomes could never improve on that season and still have the greatest career of all time. 

 

Josh could never improve on his 2020 season and still be a HOF QB. 

 

That's why the statement that Josh hasn't improved on his 2020 season is asinine. 

 

I’m not sure either QB has regressed since 2018. Mahomes has had weapons stripped away from him, while Allen’s weapons have arguably improved from his rookie year and on.
 

That opening Jets game last year was striking to me because I didn’t think a 6 year superstar QB could still play that badly. It was a little embarrassing watching him throw into double and triple coverage when other players were wide open. I especially hated that it was prime time.
 

I’d like to see Allen take another step forward on the mental side of the game. I don’t think that has improved a ton since 2020, but I also don’t think it’s regressed. 

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Yes he has regressed since then. That's his only season that is in the top 5 for best seasons by a QB in NFL history. 

 

Mahomes could never improve on that season and still have the greatest career of all time. 

 

Josh could never improve on his 2020 season and still be a HOF QB. 

 

That's why the statement that Josh hasn't improved on his 2020 season is asinine. 

 

I am shocked that someone thinks that Mahomes and Allen are worse QB's today than they were 4-5 years ago because they haven't had better statistical outputs than their best seasons (2018 and 2020, respectively)

 

Wild take, but I guess you're entitled to your opinion.

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Allen specifically said he doesn't want to watch "too much" film.  I am sure Kyler Murray feels the same way.

 

 

Completely out of context

 

Allen said he is played differently than every other QB so film isn't giving him what it does to most

 

Because he isn't played the same 

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I'll agree that Josh hasn't improved since 2020, but that's like saying Mahomes hasn't improved since 2018. These guys are at the peak of the profession. There's not really anywhere to go from there. 

 

Whatever Josh is doing is working and it's more than good enough to win a SB

 

I actually don't agree that Allen hasn't improved since 2020.  He had his highest completion % and yards in 2020, but there's more to being a great QB than those two parameters.  

 

In 2021, early in the season, Josh played an amazing, patient, "take what the defense gives" game against the Chiefs.  The comeback they played against Tampa Bay when he took them to OT absolutely made Tom Brady a fan.  He then played two utterly amazing games at the end of the 2021 season - the NE playoff game where the Bills scored a TD on every single drive of the game, and Bill Belicheck actually came to the locker room after the game to offer respect to Josh, then the 13-second game against KC.

 

Those and other games in 2021 were games that showed a step in his level of QB play - not his completion % or YPG, but his mental grasp of the game.

 

I find 2022 and 2023 difficult to assess because I don't know how much of what I saw was Dorsey or Brady as OCs, how much was the definite drop in WR talent with Brown, Sanders and Beasley gone and inadequately replaced by Davis, McKenzie, and an injured Crowder.
 

Your point about Mahomes is also valid, but I'd say the same thing that I believe Mahomes has gotten better at reads and at taking what the defense offers since 2018 as well, and that completion % and yards don't tell the whole story.

[junior]

Diggs putting in work with Stroud and the other receivers down in Houston. Hopefully Josh is doing the same with Samuel and co.? 😬

 

https://twitter.com/ClutchCityENTX/status/1776800392686326260?t=Bwy7OHPyrqvI7rsEWO-gKw&s=19