Does Josh Allen still work as hard in the offseason?

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Jordan Palmer and Kyle Allen talked about it on one of the podcasts.  Josh clearly doesn't start as early as he did his first years - but he also had significant throwing arm injuries the last 2 seasons, so we don't know how medical advice played into that.

 

I also have the impression that Josh may have changed who he works with, as he talked (post season this year) about making sure he spent time with the "appropriate people" working on his throwing mechanics because with the shoulder injury, he reverted and struggled a bit during the season.  So you may well be correct that Josh "dialed back" his relationship with Palmer, but it doesn't follow he's not working with someone.

 

 

It doesn't follow. Very fair point.

 

But it does make it seem like that's most likely. Allen has never been shy about telling us what he does in the offseason to get better, or allowing the people he's worked with to talk about it either.

 

Why would he? People love it. And yet, very little lately.

 

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

This is hogwash.  As I've said, Josh gets criticism here - including from me - but there's a big difference between fact-based criticism based on what is objectively on film and film analysis by people who know what they're seeing (Kurt Warner, JT O'Sullivan, Greg Cosell, etc) and fluffing up rampant speculation about how hard the guy works or doesn't work based on a handful of breadcrumbs and no real knowledge of his off-season schedule.

 

 

 

He does get criticism. Not much. He's the face of the franchise and their best player, and it's as natural as gravity that guys like that are loved and thus not attacked as much as others. 90% may be high. But not all that high.

 

And while some breadcrumb-reading is going on, it's also things he said, particularly on that Bussin' with the Boys podcast last offseason. In past year in interviews this time of year he'd talk golf and what he was doing to prepare for the season. Lately we heard about golf, but football not nearly so much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

For calibration purposes, check out his take on Dalton Kincaid from last June, quoted here:

 

 

I would like to see an exact quote or a transcript where he says those words. 

Watch the bussin with the boys interview. It’s all right there. Starts about 1:06:45 in. He’s asked about how he prepares in the offseason. It goes on for a while as they talk other things in between.

 

 

Edited March 21 by Buffalo_Stampede

[H2o]

This is the perfect thread to bring all of the 🤡's and haters out.

 

Let me preface this by saying Mahomes and Allen are #1 and #2 in the entire NFL right now. I don't care about MVP's, Pro Bowl's, All Pro's, Player voted rankings, none of that. And show me a single QB in this league who means more to his entire team, who carries more of the weight for his entire team, than Josh Allen. There isn't one. Their statistical runs have been matched by no other in NFL history. 

 

In the last 4 seasons:

 

Pat Mahomes - 20,148 total yds w/ 151 Total TD's

Josh Allen - 20,010 total yds w/ 173 Total TD's

 

No other player in the NFL is close to them. Herbert is a combined 2,000 behind Allen and Mahomes w/ 48 less TD's than JA17 in that time. You can claim it's because of injuries for the other "top" QB's in the NFL as to why they aren't close, but durability is also a necessary quality to be an elite QB. In that same span, Lamar Jackson has only amassed 14,916 total yds and 100 total TD's. That is almost 6,000 less yards in that time and 71 less TD's than Allen, but some of the "sports media" bobbleheads would have you believe that Lamar is better than JA17. COMPLETE horse manure. Clearly, these two (Mahomes and Allen) are the cream of the crop. 

 

In this social media age where people think every aspect of life is or should be put out there, some still don't have their lives on blast for everyone to see. Just because people post videos talking about "we're out here doing this" or "we're out here doing that" doesn't mean the people who don't post about every aspect of their lives are doing nothing. So, ok, Mahomes and his guys are supposedly working out now. That doesn't mean they are going to work through the entire offseason. JA is out with his girl right now, most likely, and enjoying time with her. It's the OFFSEASON. There is a reason why it's called that. You can bet money, though, that Josh and his guys will be getting together at some point and putting in work as well. Josh also still works with Jordan Palmer. There was an interview Palmer did last year talking about his work with JA17 and Kyle Allen. Josh is still going to put in work, but he's also going to decompress and enjoy his life away from the game. Anyone who expects someone to be "football, football, football" 24-7 for the entirety of their career is just delusional. 

 

Josh is not just some slug in the offseason who does nothing but swing golf clubs, pound beers, and pound actresses. He still puts in work. The main difference the last few years, and I have said this time and time again, is Daboll is no longer here. Josh and Dabs had a special relationship that went beyond football. When he left for the NY Giants I believe it really took a toll on Josh. Dabs understood Josh. Dabs schemed the entire offense for Josh. Dabs let Josh be himself and catered to his strengths. Dabs also knew how to put receivers in the places they needed to be for the offense to be successful. He new the route concepts that worked, the ones Josh favored, and how to fit it all in against the opposing defenses each week. I'm not saying I was always happy with Daboll's play calling, but Daboll was Josh's guy. It was obvious that Dorsey was not. In their time together, Josh just didn't seem to be having fun anymore. It could also have been his personal issues leaking over onto the field. To think that doesn't happen for guys is ignorant at the least. We started to see the old Josh again once Brady took over. I think with a full offseason on tap, and a complete installation of his offense, that Josh and Brady are going to get that same mojo working that he and Dabs had. I'm gonna go ahead and call it now, that in 2024 Josh is going to have the best statistical season of his career. Passing TD's will be up, TO's will be down, and he'll be all in the MVP convo once again. Whether he wins it or not, who knows. But Josh is going to light it up this year. 

[White Linen]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

You must be confusing me with someone far more dramatic 

There’s exactly zero non-all time great QB’s that have won 3 or more Superbowls.

 

I'm pretty sure I've got the dramatic part correct. 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

I'm pretty sure I've got the dramatic part correct. 

Yeah well, you were pretty sure I pledged to never come back to TBD a minute ago, so what you’re pretty sure about means quite little.

[ddaryl]

Like I tell my boss....

"I take 2 viagra every morning... SO when I'm working you know I'm working hard!"

Edited March 21 by ddaryl

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

It doesn't follow. Very fair point.

 

But it does make it seem like that's most likely. Allen has never been shy about telling us what he does in the offseason to get better, or allowing the people he's worked with to talk about it either.

 

Why would he? People love it. And yet, very little lately.

 

To be fair, a lot of media pundits were "all over" talking to Josh during and after his "sea change" in completion % from 59% in 2019 to 69% in 2020.  That kind of improvement was regarded as pretty much unprecedented, and coupled with a passing yards jump from 3089 to 4544, both Josh Allen and Jordan Palmer were highly in demand to talk about "what happened?" "howdja duit?"

 

I think Allen recognized he had a media obligation and obliged, but while he's backslid some from the completion %, the overall improvement has remained, so it's really no longer a story.  It's clear it wasn't a flash in the pan, and now several other QBs have made similar improvements (and several have not).

 

I could be wrong, but I also think that at heart, Josh is really a private person and would just as soon have the media butt out and stay out of his off season.  I think (and I have no substantiation about this) he's had some tension with Jordan Palmer, partly because Jordan was speaking about (and sometimes for) Josh, A Lot, on his media circuit (including in at least one instance on their QB podcast something Josh clearly wasn't down to talk about because it didn't sound great).  It wouldn't surprise me if Josh went looking for another QB guru who was willing to work with him quietly and not use him as a free ride to promote himself and his biz.

 

Now whether that's true, and whether whoever he's found is as good, better, not as good, same as Palmer - can't tell you.

Edited March 21 by Beck Water

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, Success said:

Anyone seen a dropoff in how well he's playing?

 

 

 

 

Yes, notably as a passer compared to 2020.

 

He's a gamer and experience has improved him in some regards but he still makes a lot of bad "gunslinger" decisions.  More than in 2020, when he was working to disprove the notion that he was a turnover machine, for instance.

 

 And it's not just throwing 3 interceptions to the same guy on opening night.   He's susceptible to critical mental mistakes even when his focus is seemingly great that day.  That 2nd and 9 throw to Shakir with 2 minutes left against KC.........with Diggs wide open for the first.........was just an undisciplined mistake that ultimately got him beat despite a largely brilliant performance otherwise.   The devil is in the details when it comes to being the best or just another excellent one.    

 

Mahomes is focused.   He's got a simpler life away from the field........his offseason life is largely about preparing so he's built a compound in Texas to train with his receivers there.  He's on the hunt for Tom Brady's records/status.  

 

Josh is not at that level as a competitor away from the field and now that he's 0-3 in the playoffs and 3 SB wins and 4 SB appearances behind Mahomes I suspect that only disincentivizes him a bit more.    It's not like Brady being great made Big Ben or Aaron Rodgers elevate their games as leaders.    They just kept doing what THEY do.  And never won another SB after getting their wins early in their careers.    

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s really not that deep guys. I was just looking for a conversation. I saw Mahomes working with his new WR and I thought about that Bussin with the Boys interview with Allen.

 

Allen is easily a top 3-4 QB in the league. 

[Success]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes, notably as a passer compared to 2020.

 

He's a gamer and experience has improved him in some regards but he still makes a lot of bad "gunslinger" decisions.  More than in 2020, when he was working to disprove the notion that he was a turnover machine, for instance.

 

 And it's not just throwing 3 interceptions to the same guy on opening night.   He's susceptible to critical mental mistakes even when his focus is seemingly great that day.  That 2nd and 9 throw to Shakir with 2 minutes left against KC.........with Diggs wide open for the first.........was just an undisciplined mistake that ultimately got him beat despite a largely brilliant performance otherwise.   The devil is in the details when it comes to being the best or just another excellent one.    

 

Mahomes is focused.   He's got a simpler life away from the field........his offseason life is largely about preparing so he's built a compound in Texas to train with his receivers there.  He's on the hunt for Tom Brady's records/status.  

 

Josh is not at that level as a competitor away from the field and now that he's 0-3 in the playoffs and 3 SB wins and 4 SB appearances behind Mahomes I suspect that only disincentivizes him a bit more.    It's not like Brady being great made Big Ben or Aaron Rodgers elevate their games as leaders.    They just kept doing what THEY do.  And never won another SB after getting their wins early in their careers.    

 

I'll always disagree w/ the bolded.

 

That play was designed for the shot to Shakir, and he was open.  It's not undisciplined or even a mistake to throw to a wide open receiver in the endzone.

 

You may not get that again on that drive.  Defenses tighten up once you get into the red zone, and having an easy opportunity for a TD is never a guarantee.  Any good or great QB goes for Shakir there.

 

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't know. But I really hope he works hard this offseason. I feel like Josh being dialled in is the difference between this team being in a lot of one score games and us winning more comfortably. 

How is it possible to disagree with “my understanding “. Separately double check your sarcasm detection system 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Josh is not at that level as a competitor away from the field and now that he's 0-3 in the playoffs and 3 SB wins and 4 SB appearances behind Mahomes I suspect that only disincentivizes him a bit more.

We see this on TBD. In 2020, it was “we can win multiple Superbowls with Josh and be in the mix every year.”

 

It’s unfortunately turned into “just one for the love of God.”

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

I'll always disagree w/ the bolded.

 

That play was designed for the shot to Shakir, and he was open.  It's not undisciplined or even a mistake to throw to a wide open receiver in the endzone.

 

You may not get that again on that drive.  Defenses tighten up once you get into the red zone, and having an easy opportunity for a TD is never a guarantee.  Any good or great QB goes for Shakir there.

 

When Kurt Warner dissected the play, he said based on the look the defense was giving he would’ve came off the Shakir read and looked for the crosser. He thought Shakir wouldn’t have came open given how the safeties were playing. Obviously Shakir did pop open after waiting, but Josh had his foot stepped on by Dawkins and the play failed. Josh wouldn’t have had to wait if his intention was to go for the crosser. And who knows, if he hit Diggs maybe the Bills score a TD with little time remaining and the Chiefs don’t win back to back SBs.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

I'll always disagree w/ the bolded.

 

That play was designed for the shot to Shakir, and he was open.  It's not undisciplined or even a mistake to throw to a wide open receiver in the endzone.

 

You may not get that again on that drive.  Defenses tighten up once you get into the red zone, and having an easy opportunity for a TD is never a guarantee.  Any good or great QB goes for Shakir there.

 

 

 

Sure.   Because the lasting image of Tom Brady in big games isn't taking what the defense gives him in crunch time.   It's not setting up game winning field goals or red zone TD's....... it's those deep TD passes to prevent defense's from tightening up on him in the red zone. 

 

How have Mahomes last two SB wins ended?   With a PI call and a short TD pass........both in deep in opponents territory.   Not with hoping to complete the longest air yards pass of the season to a particular receiver(as would have been the case with Shakir).  

 

You can disagree with it all you want but the play wasn't there to be had.    The coverage was good and the pressure from Jones should have told Allen to take the first down.   But he threw it anyway.

 

I love having Josh Allen as my QB.  And if he just provides tons of fun moments over the next 8-10 years that's fine with me.   I'm not a finish-line fan trying to get one SB win before I die.   This is entertainment.  Jim Kelly had greater flaws and I loved having him as QB too.   But if the question is if Josh Allen is doing everything he can to secure a SB win..........I know that answer has been no.  

[CincyBillsFan]

16 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Allen is a great qb and #2 currently. What he does in the offseason is his business. But that drive to be the best that existed in Brady and is what’s driving Mahomes right now is clearly not in Allen. That’s ok because not everyone has that and it’s not a requirement to win a championship. 

Are you basing this on Allen doing a lot more commercials then Mahomes in the off season?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Chaos said:

How is it possible to disagree with “my understanding “. Separately double check your sarcasm detection system 

 

Ha I knew you were being arcastic I was just making clear that I both agree with neither "no other coach could make the playoffs" and "any other coach would make a superbowl."

 

Neither are true.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, Brand J said:

When Kurt Warner dissected the play, he said based on the look the defense was giving he would’ve came off the Shakir read and looked for the crosser. He thought Shakir wouldn’t have came open given how the safeties were playing. Obviously Shakir did pop open after waiting, but Josh had his foot stepped on by Dawkins and the play failed. Josh wouldn’t have had to wait if his intention was to go for the crosser. And who knows, if he hit Diggs maybe the Bills score a TD with little time remaining and the Chiefs don’t win back to back SBs.

 

Yeah there is this idea out there that the throw to Shakir was the first read so it was right to just hurl that no-chance worm burner into the end zone.   Whether Brady is to blame for dangling that nonsensical HR shot there or not doesn't take away from the reality that the throw wasn't open and the pressure prevented Allen from stepping into a throw.   That's when an elite QB has to be able to take the easy win.   

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I also have the impression that Josh may have changed who he works with, as he talked (post season this year) about making sure he spent time with the "appropriate people" working on his throwing mechanics because with the shoulder injury, he reverted and struggled a bit during the season.  So you may well be correct that Josh "dialed back" his relationship with Palmer, but it doesn't follow he's not working with someone.

 

I dispute that right here and now.  He doesn't start lifting weights and throwing 4x/week as early as he did his first few seasons (and there may be medical advice that plays into that) but it doesn't mean he doesn't work hard when he works.  And he seems to be into flexibility training - "stretch and strengthen" is a different approach, which I understand Tom Brady promoted.

 

The injury reasons you cite are not only great points but I would go as far as saying that the Bills medical staff have set conditions for what Allen should and should not do after the season ends.  We know he had injuries the last 2 seasons to his elbow and/or shoulder and it stands to reason that there were restrictions to how much throwing he should do from February through April. I would be shocked if the Bills medical people hadn't put restrictions on Allen throwing the football during these 3 months.

 

 

 

[Success]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Sure.   Because the lasting image of Tom Brady in big games isn't taking what the defense gives him in crunch time.   It's not setting up game winning field goals or red zone TD's....... it's those deep TD passes to prevent defense's from tightening up on him in the red zone. 

 

How have Mahomes last two SB wins ended?   With a PI call and a short TD pass........both in deep in opponents territory.   Not with hoping to complete the longest air yards pass of the season to a particular receiver(as would have been the case with Shakir).  

 

You can disagree with it all you want but the play wasn't there to be had.    The coverage was good and the pressure from Jones should have told Allen to take the first down.   But he threw it anyway.

 

I love having Josh Allen as my QB.  And if he just provides tons of fun moments over the next 8-10 years that's fine with me.   I'm not a finish-line fan trying to get one SB win before I die.   This is entertainment.  Jim Kelly had greater flaws and I loved having him as QB too.   But if the question is if Josh Allen is doing everything he can to secure a SB win..........I know that answer has been no.  

 

The coverage wasn't good. Shakir was wide open.

 

And it was 2nd down.  I have no doubt that if he went for Diggs & the pass was dropped, everyone would have been criticizing him for not getting the easy TD when he was looking right there.

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The injury reasons you cite are not only great points but I would go as far as saying that the Bills medical staff have set conditions for what Allen should and should not do after the season ends.  We know he had injuries the last 2 seasons to his elbow and/or shoulder and it stands to reason that there were restrictions to how much throwing he should do from February through April. I would be shocked if the Bills medical people hadn't put restrictions on Allen throwing the football during these 3 months.

 

 

 

 

Regardless, Allen, at minimum, must up his social media game and create a daily YouTube channel called "a day in the life with Josh Allen" so all these skeptical Bills fans, who have nothing better to do, can watch his every move and critique the way he butters his toast or puts his toiler paper forward pull or reverse pull on his roller!!!

Edited March 21 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine