Does Josh Allen still work as hard in the offseason?

[Beck Water]

59 minutes ago, Billl said:

Depends how you want to want to measure it, 5 of the last 6 have been won by Mahomes or Brady.  That counts as "usually" to me.  Granted, that's a bit of a cherry picked window, so you could go with the last decade which would be 7 out of 10 which would also qualify.  Then again, a few of those years were before Mahomes was even in the league.  Since he was drafted in 2017, it would be 6 out of 8.  During that stretch, Brady has won 3, Mahomes has won 3, and all other QBs combined have won 2.

 

So, yeah.  The Superbowl is usually won by the team with either Mahomes or Brady.

 

OK, so "usually" = last 6 years.  Got it.

 

Just realize that another way to look at it is Mahomes has won 50%, which is a coin toss.  Now of course, getting the chance to flip that coin, is outstanding.  But I do kind of wonder if KC might be getting a little full of themselves.

[ALLEN1QB]

Needs to clear his head and not think football in the off-season. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

We will agree to disagree. For all our sakes, I hope and trust you are wrong however! 😬

 

For calibration purposes, check out his take on Dalton Kincaid from last June, quoted here:

 

52 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He also said he would like to see teams not practice at all. Josh seems to believe in less is more. Makes you wonder how much he watches film and prepares mentally for games.

These are his words. Imagine if we’re seeing only a fraction of what he’s capable of? Imagine playoff Josh all the time? Maybe we get the #1 seed.

 

 

I would like to see an exact quote or a transcript where he says those words. 

[DrMaxPower]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Was it? I didn't hear anything about him working with Jordan last offseason and I do think there were some signs of regression in some of his fundamentals. That isn't me accusing him of not working hard by the way - I have no idea what he did last offseason but I didn't hear, unlike previous years, mentions of him working with Palmer and I thought it was telling when he was on the media round at the Superbowl he was asked about his offseason workout plans and didn't mention Palmer once. I sort of suspected that relationship had concluded. I'd be interested in hearing to that contrary. 

 

I don't thing you're in error. I don't recall a word about any time with Palmer last year and it certainly doesn't sound like it's on the docket for this year either.

 

I get that the guy has been deified and 90% of the fan base will simply not accept criticism of Josh. That said, there's no dispute that he doesn't work as hard as he used to. He doesn't drill fundamentals with Palmer anymore. You never hear about workouts with his receivers. The guy has actually said that he doesn't like to 'over do it' with watching film - a euphemism for doesn't watch much at all.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that his best season came when he was still doing that stuff. I don't think it a coincidence that his turnovers have climbed the last couple years and he's often 'not on the same page' as his receivers. I suspect his work habits are 1 of the issues between him and Diggs - who is notorious for his efforts in the offseason.

 

Josh is a freaky talent and a good guy. He doesn't appear to have the same drive to achieve greatness that Brady/Mahomes/Manning did. Mahomes is working with his WR (including breaking in Hollywood Brown) a month after winning another Super Bowl. Josh is on the golf course or vacationing in Europe after another disappointing ending. He's certainly not spending time getting Samuel acclimated.

 

 

Edited March 21 by DrMaxPower

[78thealltimegreat]

Josh literally shows up for every minicamp and appearance even when it isn’t required. People want this guy to live and breath football and he just maybe out training with Jordan Palmer like he normally does but he doesn’t Instagram it every 5 seconds like some others do. 

[Beck Water]

52 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Also, the Chiefs D while never considered great although they were good last year always seems to play decent in the playoffs and make plays in critical moments. Credit to Spags who does a nice job on that side of the ball.

 

The Chiefs D last year wasn't just good - they "kicked butt and took names".  #2 in scoring, #3 in pts per drive, average drive of 6 plays, #4 for passing yards and passing TD and rushing TDs.  That's not a good defense, that's a great defense and if it wasn't called "great", it was only by people who weren't paying attention.

 

Spagnuolo definitely deserves another shot at a head coaching job 

[aceman_16]

14 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Let me start by saying I come in peace! Just having a conversation here. I know this is kind of a negative Josh post.

 

What do you think? Does it matter to you if he doesn’t train or work on his game as much as he use to?

 

Do you have proof he isnt?

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

 

I don't thing you're in error. I don't recall a word about any time with Palmer last year and it certainly doesn't sound like it's on the docket for this year either.

 

Jordan Palmer and Kyle Allen talked about it on one of the podcasts.  Josh clearly doesn't start as early as he did his first years - but he also had significant throwing arm injuries the last 2 seasons, so we don't know how medical advice played into that.

 

I also have the impression that Josh may have changed who he works with, as he talked (post season this year) about making sure he spent time with the "appropriate people" working on his throwing mechanics because with the shoulder injury, he reverted and struggled a bit during the season.  So you may well be correct that Josh "dialed back" his relationship with Palmer, but it doesn't follow he's not working with someone.

 

11 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

I get that the guy has been deified and 90% of the fan base will simply not accept criticism of Josh.

 

This is hogwash.  As I've said, Josh gets criticism here - including from me - but there's a big difference between fact-based criticism based on what is objectively on film and film analysis by people who know what they're seeing (Kurt Warner, JT O'Sullivan, Greg Cosell, etc) and fluffing up rampant speculation about how hard the guy works or doesn't work based on a handful of breadcrumbs and no real knowledge of his off-season schedule.

 

11 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

That said, there's no dispute that he doesn't work as hard as he used to.

 

I dispute that right here and now.  He doesn't start lifting weights and throwing 4x/week as early as he did his first few seasons (and there may be medical advice that plays into that) but it doesn't mean he doesn't work hard when he works.  And he seems to be into flexibility training - "stretch and strengthen" is a different approach, which I understand Tom Brady promoted.

 

11 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

The guy has actually said that he doesn't like to 'over do it' with watching film - a euphemism for doesn't watch much at all.

 

That's your interpretation.  The actual transcript of the Bussin' with the Boys interview does not necessarily support your interpretation.  This was discussed ad nauseum after the actual interview last season.

Edited March 21 by Beck Water

[Billl]

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, so "usually" = last 6 years.  Got it.

 

Just realize that another way to look at it is Mahomes has won 50%, which is a coin toss.  Now of course, getting the chance to flip that coin, is outstanding.  But I do kind of wonder if KC might be getting a little full of themselves.

I suppose if you choose to ignore the part of my post where I used an 8 year window and a ten year window and then also choose to ignore the part about Brady then my post didn't make as much sense.  

[Don Otreply]

27 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Do you view this as similar to the way Reid plateaued in Philly?

Very likely to be similar career wise, Reid it seems has been open to changing his approach over the years to his team’s benefit, I’m hoping McDermott can do the same in Buffalo, time will tell, 

[Buffalo03]

I know you're trying to find reasons for not winning a Super Bowl yet, but I think questioning Allen’s work ethic is ridiculous. The dude puts everything in and gives everything he has. This isn't on Allen

[FireChans]

34 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, so "usually" = last 6 years.  Got it.

 

Just realize that another way to look at it is Mahomes has won 50%, which is a coin toss.  Now of course, getting the chance to flip that coin, is outstanding.  But I do kind of wonder if KC might be getting a little full of themselves.

50% odds in a field of 32 is incredible, FYI.

[BillsPride12]

12 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I remember the first time I went back, as an adult, and looked at Aikman's stats and I thought, "That can't be right."

 

It's one of those things where "you had to be there." 

 

I remember Aikman making all of the important throws at all of the important times.  I hated him like I hated Brady.

That's actually a pretty good comparison.  Aikman was like the Brady of that era.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Allen goes toe to toe with Mahomes pretty much all the time; so what's the difference???  Some say its Reid, but I think it's Kelce.  He freaking kills the Bills constantly and they still can't stop him.  He had a WIDE OPEN TD last year in the playoffs in addition to another TD, and in the 2022 "13 Second" playoff with 7-seconds left, he takes quick hitter from like the Chief's 44 yard line to the Bills 29 and still leaves 3-Seconds.  Then he puts the dagger in with a TD in overtime.  

 

But, it's because Allen is a slacker.  A "mediocre" slacker who only led the NFL in Total Yards and TDs this year.

Edited March 21 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[DrMaxPower]

35 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Jordan Palmer and Kyle Allen talked about it on one of the podcasts.  Josh clearly doesn't start as early as he did his first years - but he also had significant throwing arm injuries the last 2 seasons, so we don't know how medical advice played into that.

 

I also have the impression that Josh may have changed who he works with, as he talked (post season this year) about making sure he spent time with the "appropriate people" working on his throwing mechanics because with the shoulder injury, he reverted and struggled a bit during the season.  So you may well be correct that Josh "dialed back" his relationship with Palmer, but it doesn't follow he's not working with someone.

 

 

This is hogwash.  As I've said, Josh gets criticism here - including from me - but there's a big difference between fact-based criticism based on what is objectively on film and film analysis by people who know what they're seeing (Kurt Warner, JT O'Sullivan, Greg Cosell, etc) and fluffing up rampant speculation about how hard the guy works or doesn't work based on a handful of breadcrumbs and no real knowledge of his off-season schedule.

 

 

I dispute that right here and now.  He doesn't start lifting weights and throwing 4x/week as early as he did his first few seasons (and there may be medical advice that plays into that) but it doesn't mean he doesn't work hard when he works.  And he seems to be into flexibility training - "stretch and strengthen" is a different approach, which I understand Tom Brady promoted.

 

 

That's your interpretation.  The actual transcript of the Bussin' with the Boys interview does not necessarily support your interpretation.  This was discussed ad nauseum after the actual interview last season.

 

I've yet to see quotes and a date for this Kyle Allen podcast. It contradicts the quote from Palmer provided by Gunner, which seems to imply they didn't spend time working together.

 

Still, you acknowledge that Josh may have dialed back his throwing program. You acknowledge that he doesn't work out like he used to (with Josh even saying the Bills trainer disagrees with the philosophy) but deny that he's putting in less work? How do you square that circle? Maybe the people you've been around are different but in my experience 'don't want to over do it' means 'not doing more than absolutely necessary'.

 

You post as if this was a court of law. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. People are allowed to draw rational inferences based on the evidence available.

 

When Josh was trying to climb the mountain and prove all the doubters wrong he put in more work. Once he'd 'arrived', I think he got comfortable. Chasing true greatness doesn't allow for that.

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

I've yet to see quotes and a date for this Kyle Allen podcast. It contradicts the quote from Palmer provided by Gunner, which seems to imply they didn't spend time working together.

 

I don't think Gunner provided an actual quote.   The interpretation is correct and consistent with what Allen has said - Jordan said Allen had "mastery of his stroke" and didn't have to work on his throwing mechanics as much, and Allen has said he doesn't start working out like OTAs right after the season ends.  That doesn't mean he doesn't work or (as he said after the season) doesn't see a need to work. [to clarify, after this past season, Allen said he needed to work on his throwing motion with "appropriate people" because injuries had gotten it off kilter during the season]

 

It was a podcast with Jordan Palmer and Kyle Allen.  You could Google.  I think they call it "the QB Room".   It was long and contained a lot of rambling and nonsense, so I'm not inclined to search for or transcribe it.

 

This isn't a court of law.  But to have a meaningful discussion, there really needs to be a start from a foundation of actual solid information.  And what we have here is people taking snippets and sentences from entertainment-type "shooting the bull" podcasts and creating a House of Cards inference about how hard Allen works and whether it's more or less hard than he worked as a rookie.  Which, even if he does less early on in the off season or works differently due to rehabbing his elbow or shoulder or what have you, doesn't mean he doesn't work as hard in the aggregate.   I really shouldn't have to lay that out in terms of specifics to working adults.

 

With that, and meaning no offense, I'm out of here; I think I've made my point about as well as I can about the pustulant nature of trying to have a comparative discussion about something we really all know very little about (his off-season work, how much he does, what, and when; and how it compares to previous years).

 

I believe I've also made my point about as well as I can that this does not equate to objecting to any critique of Josh Allen or to placing him above reproach, but for goodness sake, can we do it in some manner which begins with known facts, like in game performance?

Edited March 21 by Beck Water

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Top 2 qb in the league.  Without him the Bills are nowhere.   Who cares otherwise.

 

 

Everyone should. 

 

Those are indeed important. But plenty of other things matter.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

Is he doing less in the off-season now or is what he is doing in the off-season not as publicized as it has been in the past?

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

For calibration purposes, check out his take on Dalton Kincaid from last June, quoted here:

 

 

I would like to see an exact quote or a transcript where he says those words. 

If someone can find the end of season presser he actually talked about wanting to stay more in shape this offseason.  That goes against the less is more idea but also kind of acknowledges he thinks he should change something.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just to be clear, I’ve seen plenty of justified in-season criticism of JA when warranted (or not warranted, either way), so let’s not presume that he’s untouchable for purposes of this discussion. I especially harped on his “low key” approach during games under Dorsey where there was little fire or obvious emotion like he was known for in his earlier years—not for nothing, that noticeably changed when Brady took over, and we got to see Allen let loose the dragon fire once again…my point is simply that for the JA critics out there, pick a different hill to die on—Allen’s will to win or sacrificial playing style (how often did he take matters into his own hands and not slide when needing a first down in the final 6 games and playoffs for example) simply can’t be wished away for your narrative. 
 

Compare:

https://apnews.com/article/bills-offense-allen-diggs-dorsey-e850898f6b36f97fa3b12294611afaac

 

Contrast:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39196773/buffalo-bills-quarterback-josh-allen-2023-season-nfl-playoffs

 

The man can literally flip a switch and make it happen. He’s a unicorn.