Doc Brown Posted March 14 Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Amazing. We have nuclear, scientists, molecular biologists and anesthesiologists on the maga team here yet there unconcerned with the effects of tariffs on the markets. Meanwhile a couple lawyers, a couple engineers and a physician on the progressive side are concerned. All while the higher educated and more highly reimbursed nationally are becoming progressives in droves. Weird. and 70% seems pretty random. Also stupid… Most people would agree that 70% or more would be "mostly voted." I don't have any study done to back that up though. 2
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 14 Posted March 14 27 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Most people would agree that 70% or more would be "mostly voted." I don't have any study done to back that up though. You know, quantum physics requires uncertainty. Are you a particle or a wave? 51 % chance particle, 47% wave. Therefore, mostly particle.
JDHillFan Posted March 15 Posted March 15 Interesting thoughts but it will take a full two minutes to listen to them.
BillsFanNC Posted March 15 Posted March 15 Trump's tariffs are controversial. Legitimate arguments on both sides. What isn't controversial: Opening the southern border on purpose is bad. An obviously oatmeal brained and senile POTUS is bad. Trans women (men) competing against real women is grossly unfair and dangerous. If you fall on the 20 side of those 80/20 issues then I don't give a single shlit what your thoughts are on topics that are actually debate worthy.
Buddy Hix Posted March 15 Posted March 15 26 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: Interesting thoughts but it will take a full two minutes to listen to them. Tariffs are a bandaid solution for restoring US manufacturing, one that will most likely fail because the plan is half-baked. First off, you think American youth are interested in working 50-60 hour weeks in physically demanding jobs? And driving up the cost of goods won’t pair well with the new jobs…work harder for less, sounds great. And in the 1970’s CEO pay was 30 times the average worker, it’s now 325 times the compensation the average worker gets. So all of a sudden CEOs are going to stop cutting costs and lining their pockets? CEOs are going to fund innovation, instead of their 4th home? Sure… Capitalism and greed, two American staples, killed the middle class, and no amount of tariffs will bring decent wages back. 1 1
Warcodered Posted March 15 Posted March 15 6 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Trump's tariffs are controversial. Legitimate arguments on both sides. What isn't controversial: Opening the southern border on purpose is bad. An obviously oatmeal brained and senile POTUS is bad. Trans women (men) competing against real women is grossly unfair and dangerous. If you fall on the 20 side of those 80/20 issues then I don't give a single shlit what your thoughts are on topics that are actually debate worthy. I mean if Trump wants to reshape our economy as he sees fit through government edicts it's his prerogative, and also that badge you have as your avatar is clearly ironic. 2
The Frankish Reich Posted March 15 Author Posted March 15 46 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: Interesting thoughts but it will take a full two minutes to listen to them. I watched Bill Maher last night. The guest did do a good, spirited defense of the purpose behind Trump's tariff wave. I will point out that she forgot the 5th strategic/national security interest Trump says he must protect. It is wine and champagne (umm, "sparkling wine"). OK, all snark aside, a few facts: - Manufacturing output is not the same thing as manufacturing employment. Yes, 1970s manufacturing continued to provide jobs that allowed workers and their families to achieve a middle class livelihood: home ownership, the ability to save for retirement, etc. But it was at a cost - the use of human labor for heavy, literally back-breaking jobs (I had a great uncle who could barely walk after years in a Buffalo tire factory). Those jobs are now automated if they are performed in developed economies at all. And if steel production "returns" to the US, it is certain that steelworker jobs won't follow in anything like the numbers we used to see. Efficiency, they name is Elon Musk and the automated manufacturing process. Given the political environment, it is quite clear that Trumpism will also not bring back union jobs, which were part and parcel of keeping more money with the middle class than with the ownership/capitalist class. - So Sam Stein had a point about peak manufacturing output during the Biden years (since output is not employment). So his female guest (I don't recall her name) had a point about income and wealth distribution in America, 1970s vs. 2020s. And Bill Maher had a point about Trump's tariffs being about some kind of nostalgia for a bygone era of U.S. manufacturing that we will never see again, regardless of what tariff he slaps on aluminum and steel next week. Remember that from an economic perspective the numerator is output and the denominator is something like man-hours when we talk about something like "efficiency" or "productivity." Those jobs are gone, whether they've gone to low-wage men in China or high-tech machines in Fremont, CA. 1
Big Blitz Posted March 15 Posted March 15 3 hours ago, JDHillFan said: Interesting thoughts but it will take a full two minutes to listen to them. Transcribed:
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 15 Posted March 15 Yup. The red states are targets. who could've predicted that? unfortunately there's collateral damage. We were just bringing a thank you gift to the owner of the local wine shop who helps with a fundraiser. she said French wine is her biggest profit source - good quality at a good price point. not any more. she thinks she may need to close shop. that would suck https://www.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-could-hit-communities-210143057.html
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Transcribed: get rid of the Chinese slave wages and prices for these items increase proportionally to the higher labor costs. and there's no guarantee manufacturing biz owners are going to pay a living wage rather than keep profits. why not just increase the minimum wage for existing jobs? unemployment is low. then you get low prices and better wages. not one or the other. Edited March 15 by Joe Ferguson forever 1
The Frankish Reich Posted March 15 Author Posted March 15 15 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: Yup. The red states are targets. who could've predicted that? unfortunately there's collateral damage. We were just bringing a thank you gift to the owner of the local wine shop who helps with a fundraiser. she said French wine is her biggest profit source - good quality at a good price point. not any more. she thinks she may need to close shop. that would suck https://www.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-could-hit-communities-210143057.html And guess who's picking those French wine grapes? Seasonal immigrant workers. Not French workers. That's what I saw in Bordeaux. By the way, does our illegal immigrant labor give us an unfair advantage such that other countries should impose a tariff on our agricultural goods? 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 15 Posted March 15 1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said: And guess who's picking those French wine grapes? Seasonal immigrant workers. Not French workers. That's what I saw in Bordeaux. By the way, does our illegal immigrant labor give us an unfair advantage such that other countries should impose a tariff on our agricultural goods? It's a global economy. Even caesar trump can't change that. 1
Big Blitz Posted March 15 Posted March 15 3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson forever said: get rid of the Chinese slave wages and prices for these items increase proportionally to the higher labor costs. and there's no guarantee manufacturing biz owners are going to pay a living wage rather than keep profits. why not just increase the minimum wage for existing jobs? unemployment is low. then you get low prices and better wages. not one or the other. Min wage jobs aren’t the jobs we’re talking about. Jobs that require little skill. Chinese slave wages are not an American concern but one are businesses may be able to exploit. Exposing the Democrats as no longer being the party of the working man is one of Trump’s greatest accomplishments. And the GOP no longer a sellout to big Corporations. This is possible for 2 reasons. Democrats stopped being the party of the working man with NAFTA. Democrats chose Environment Fundamentalism and DEI over American interests. 1
Hank II Posted March 16 Posted March 16 On 3/14/2025 at 2:52 PM, Joe Ferguson forever said: Amazing. We have nuclear scientists, molecular biologists and anesthesiologists on the maga team here yet they're unconcerned with the effects of tariffs on the markets. Meanwhile a couple lawyers, a couple engineers and a physician on the progressive side are concerned. All while the higher educated and more highly reimbursed nationally are becoming progressives in droves. Weird. and 70% seems pretty random. Also stupid… And for the first time in decades there's more registered Republicans than Democrats. Curious. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted March 16 Posted March 16 2 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Min wage jobs aren’t the jobs we’re talking about. Jobs that require little skill. Chinese slave wages are not an American concern but one are businesses may be able to exploit. Exposing the Democrats as no longer being the party of the working man is one of Trump’s greatest accomplishments. And the GOP no longer a sellout to big Corporations. This is possible for 2 reasons. Democrats stopped being the party of the working man with NAFTA. Democrats chose Environment Fundamentalism and DEI over American interests. What if the minimum wage paid $25 or 30 an hour. Two earner families would make 6 figures. 1000 emergency fund would be normal. The uber wealthy might be down a billion or 2. People would be happier doing a better job at their job. Social security, tax revenues, Medicare would be better funded. It the anti fascist approach … 1 hour ago, Hank II said: And for the first time in decades there's more registered Republicans than Democrats. Curious. Because 59% can’t raise $1000 for an emergency
Doc Brown Posted March 16 Posted March 16 17 hours ago, JDHillFan said: Interesting thoughts but it will take a full two minutes to listen to them. Thomas Sowell is pro free market and anti-tariff because he could do math. The fact that so many people follow this account and they post garbage like this is an insult to him. 2
JDHillFan Posted March 16 Posted March 16 32 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Thomas Sowell is pro free market and anti-tariff because he could do math. The fact that so many people follow this account and they post garbage like this is an insult to him. One man’s “interesting thoughts” is another man’s “garbage”.
Buddy Hix Posted March 17 Posted March 17 OECD report predicting Trump’s tariffs will slow economic growth in North America and cause inflation to rise. https://financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-growth-rate-undershoot-worlds-oecd I wonder how long the MAGA lemmings can hold the “this is great for ‘Merica” line. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted March 17 Author Posted March 17 On 3/16/2025 at 5:05 AM, JDHillFan said: One man’s “interesting thoughts” is another man’s “garbage”. Well, yes, but only because one man has thought this through from an economics perspective and the other man is parroting political talking points. Do you really think corporations will invest heavily in US manufacturing based on Trump's tariffs? If you were the CEO of a major manufacturer would you trust that those tariffs will remain in place for the foreseeable future? It would be a gamble that Trumpism is the new Forever Politics of the United States. There is no reason to expect that. The next President - even a JD Vance - may very well revert to traditional Republicanism, or maybe a Democrat will win. So at best there is little assurance that today's policy will be next year's policy. Not the kind of assurance I'd want to invest billions in US manufacturing. 3
SectionC3 Posted March 17 Posted March 17 21 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Well, yes, but only because one man has thought this through from an economics perspective and the other man is parroting political talking points. Do you really think corporations will invest heavily in US manufacturing based on Trump's tariffs? If you were the CEO of a major manufacturer would you trust that those tariffs will remain in place for the foreseeable future? It would be a gamble that Trumpism is the new Forever Politics of the United States. There is no reason to expect that. The next President - even a JD Vance - may very well revert to traditional Republicanism, or maybe a Democrat will win. So at best there is little assurance that today's policy will be next year's policy. Not the kind of assurance I'd want to invest billions in US manufacturing. Winner winner chicken dinner. Look at the market today. Tech is sold. Profits are taken. Some of that cycling is hitting the S&P. But money is also fleeing to cash/foreign markets. Where people can trust the consistency of economic policy.
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