Running Back- whats the plan?

[PBF81]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:02 AM, BarleyNY said:

Agree 100%. Cook wore down last season. We absolutely need a complimentary RB who can take a good bit of the load off of him. 

 

How do you come to this conclusion?

 

First half he had 102 carries for 486 yards and 1 rushing TD.

 

Second half he had 135 carries for 636 yards and 1 rushing TD.  

 

If there's a criticism, it should be regarding his utilization, which is coaching.

 

He had only four 3rd-down carries and six 3rd-down touches all season.  That's ridiculous.  

 

 

[PBF81]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:59 PM, Gugny said:

He didn’t wear down; they stopped giving him the ball.  
 

He only had over 20 carries in one game all season (25 for 179 yards). 
 

It’s amazing what running backs can do when they get a chance. 

 

Again, how do you come to this conclusion?

 

I'm the first ten games he averaged 12 carries/games.

 

In the last seven games he averaged almost 19 carries/ game.  

 

 

[FireChans]

I do not care about the RB room at all. We have spent 2 thirds and a second in the last 5 years on running back. Bring the UB starter to camp, who cares. 

[PBF81]

At the end of the day this is the RB "that they wanted." If he's not adequate or might be wise to start asking questions about our draft strategies.  We draft a lot of good players but no great ones.  

 

Cook was diminutive with speed which they were enamored with and which was fully known.  If there are problems getting "the process" to work like that, them that's on them.  

 

Singletary had a great season in Houston, and had he started all 17 games, based upon his average, he'd have logged over 1,500 rushing yards in Houston.  

 

Could be us, namely our coaching.  

 

 

Edited March 17 by PBF81

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

How do you come to this conclusion?

 

First half he had 102 carries for 486 yards and 1 rushing TD.

 

Second half he had 135 carries for 636 yards and 1 rushing TD.  

 

If there's a criticism, it should be regarding his utilization, which is coaching.

 

He had only four 3rd-down carries and six 3rd-down touches all season.  That's ridiculous.  

 

 

 

I can’t take credit for that. It was from Joe Marino on his Locked On Bills podcast. I think it was his RB review one. I’ll try to re-create what he did. 

 

Under Dorsey in 10 games Cook had 120 carries and 24 receptions. Extrapolate those 144 touches to a full 17 game season and you get 245 regular season touches. 
 

Under Brady in 9 games (including 2 playoff games) Cook had 153 carries and 28 receptions. Extrapolate those  171 touches to a full 17 game season and you get 323 regular season touches. 

 

Marino went on to talk about the relatively light workload Cook had in college and that in his rookie season he only had 110 regular season touches. So his usage even under Dorsey would have been the heaviest of his career. Under Brady is an even bigger step up than that. So if we want him to be able to perform in the playoffs we should get him some help. 

 

Cook didn’t look the same to me (or Marino) at season’s end or in the playoffs. I think the workload was the main reason for the fall off of his play mainly because I can’t think of any other explanation (other than unreported injury). 

Edited March 17 by BarleyNY

[henry jones]

RB is not a major concern right now.  They’re a dime a dozen and not even necessary to draft one.  And in all honestly, we may be throwing the ball more than we ever have this year.  Our defense is setting up to be rather questionable so a good chance we’ll be behind on the scoreboard and will need JA’s arm

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I can’t take credit for that. It was from Joe Marino on his Locked On Bills podcast. I think it was his RB review one. I’ll try to re-create what he did. 

 

Under Dorsey in 10 games Cook had 120 carries and 24 receptions. Extrapolate those 144 touches to a full 17 game season and you get 245 regular season touches. 
 

Under Brady in 9 games (including 2 playoff games) Cook had 153 carries and 28 receptions. Extrapolate those  171 touches to a full 17 game season and you get 323 regular season touches. 

 

Marino went on to talk about the relatively light workload Cook had in college and that in his rookie season he only had 110 regular season touches. So his usage even under Dorsey would have been the heaviest of his career. Under Brady is an even bigger step up than that. So if we want him to be able to perform in the playoffs we should get him some help. 

 

Cook didn’t look the same to me (or Marino) at season’s end or in the playoffs. I think the workload was the main reason for the fall off of his play mainly because I can’t think of any other explanation (other than unreported injury). 

 

I'm not a big Joe Marino fan, IMO his analyses aren't great too understate things.  

 

Having said that, McBeane knew full well what they were getting when they drafted him.  None of what Marino pointed out is any big secret.

 

Given that both Moss & Singletary have left here and performed notably better elsewhere, it's certainly within the realm of fairness to question three MO & methods of our offensively challenged coaching staff as well.  

 

Again, Cook had six total touches on 3rd downs all season.  Dorsey v. Brady doesn't even come into play there.  He had two total rushing TDs, one vs. Miami in garbage time.  

 

All that I'm positing is that this is the their design for the team.  

 

 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm not a big Joe Marino fan, IMO his analyses aren't great too understate things.  

 

Having said that, McBeane knew full well what they were getting when they drafted him.  None of what Marino pointed out is any big secret.

 

Given that both Moss & Singletary have left here and performed notably better elsewhere, it's certainly within the realm of fairness to question three MO & methods of our offensively challenged coaching staff as well.  

 

Again, Cook had six total touches on 3rd downs all season.  Dorsey v. Brady doesn't even come into play there.  He had two total rushing TDs, one vs. Miami in garbage time.  

 

All that I'm positing is that this is the their design for the team.  

 

 

Devin Singletary had the lowest yard per touch of his career last year. He also had the second fewest TD’s of his career. He had less yards from scrimmage than his two previous years in Buffalo, with more touches. 
 

Notably better elsewhere?

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Devin Singletary had the lowest yard per touch of his career last year. He also had the second fewest TD’s of his career. He had less yards from scrimmage than his two previous years in Buffalo, with more touches. 
 

Notably better elsewhere?

 

Has he started the entire season he'd was on pace for 1,500 yards.  

 

Different offense and QB down there.  Does this really need an explanation?

 

 

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Devin Singletary had the lowest yard per touch of his career last year. He also had the second fewest TD’s of his career. He had less yards from scrimmage than his two previous years in Buffalo, with more touches. 
 

Notably better elsewhere?

 

If happily take 1,500 yards and 1,800 yards from scrimmage on 4.2 YPC here.  Happily.

 

 

[FireChans]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

Has he started the entire season he'd was on pace for 1,500 yards.  

 

Different offense and QB down there.  Does this really need an explanation?

 

 

????

 

He had the worst yard per touch in his career. Had he gotten more touches in Buffalo, he would’ve had bigger numbers too lol. What does this prove?

[Motorin']

On 3/15/2024 at 5:30 AM, SoonerBillsFan said:

We have a ton of 5th and 6th round picks.

 

I like Isaiah Davis and Isaac Guerendo if either of them are they in the 5th or 6th round.

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

????

 

He had the worst yard per touch in his career. Had he gotten more touches in Buffalo, he would’ve had bigger numbers too lol. What does this prove?

 

It doesn't sound as if you're not paying attention to all of the stuff on this thread.  

 

But hey, if your end-all-to-be-all indicator of a RB is YPC in a particular system, I have no counter.  

 

 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Has he started the entire season he'd was on pace for 1,500 yards.  

 

Different offense and QB down there.  Does this really need an explanation?

 

 

 

If happily take 1,500 yards and 1,800 yards from scrimmage on 4.2 YPC here.  Happily.

 

 

Thats great. If Ty Johnson had started every game, he could’ve had those numbers on 4.4 YPC.

 

See how silly it is to “project” 1500 yards (which means it didn’t happen lmao) and use it to support that he was way better?

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

It doesn't sound as if you're not paying attention to all of the stuff on this thread.  

 

But hey, if your end-all-to-be-all indicator of a RB is YPC in a particular system, I have no counter.  

 

 

Sorry let me explain. This is how logic works.

 

You have your thesis “coaching/FO mismanagement is the root of all of our problems”

 

You have your evidence “Singletary was better with the Texans than he was with the Bills” 

 

You have your conclusion, “what’s the difference? Coaching.”

 

Now, here’s how arguing works. Your evidence is wrong. Your evidence sucks. Ergo, your thesis and conclusion is not supported by your evidence.

 

Your crusade/game is very old. 
 

And for a kicker, not only did Devin Singletary NOT perform notably better in Houston as I posted here with ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
 

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Devin Singletary had the lowest yard per touch of his career last year. He also had the second fewest TD’s of his career. He had less yards from scrimmage than his two previous years in Buffalo, with more touches. 
 

Notably better elsewhere?

You started to use his PROJECTED YARDS based on fairy dust to salvage the operation. Which I outlined was laughable as above lol.

 

Of course you also forgot that those elite coaching gods in Houston ruined Dameon Pierce. Singletary was about as good this year as Pierce was last year. Pierce’s play completely fell off a cliff, due to their own scheme change. Talk about putting a player in a position to succeed, right? What’s the difference between the Texans this year and last year? Coaching? Right?

 

Sometimes you’re fun to discuss with, but it’s much less fun when you pivot to “you’re missing the point” instead of “you’re blowing my evidence and argument out of the water.”

[PBF81]

17 minutes ago, FireChans said:

????

 

He had the worst yard per touch in his career. Had he gotten more touches in Buffalo, he would’ve had bigger numbers too lol. What does this prove?

 

BTW, if Singletary had put up 1,500 rushing here, even on 4.2 YPC, and had 1,800 total YFS, no one would have been upset.  ... except for you maybe.  

 

In other news, when he had 12 or more carries in Houston, the Texans went 7-1.  When he had 58 or more yards they were 6-1.  

 

And just BTW, in games where he had 16 or more carries, he averaged 4.5 YPC.  

 

 

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Thats great. If Ty Johnson had started every game, he could’ve had those numbers on 4.4 YPC.

 

See how silly it is to “project” 1500 yards (which means it didn’t happen lmao) and use it to support that he was way better?

Sorry let me explain. This is how logic works.

 

You have your thesis “coaching/FO mismanagement is the root of all of our problems”

 

You have your evidence “Singletary was better with the Texans than he was with the Bills” 

 

You have your conclusion, “what’s the difference? Coaching.”

 

Now, here’s how arguing works. Your evidence is wrong. Your evidence sucks. Ergo, your thesis and conclusion is not supported by your evidence.

 

Your crusade/game is very old. 
 

And for a kicker, not only did Devin Singletary NOT perform notably better in Houston as I posted here with ACTUAL FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
 

You started to use his PROJECTED YARDS based on fairy dust to salvage the operation. Which I outlined was laughable as above lol.

 

Of course you also forgot that those elite coaching gods in Houston ruined Dameon Pierce. Singletary was about as good this year as Pierce was last year. Pierce’s play completely fell off a cliff, due to their own scheme change. Talk about putting a player in a position to succeed, right? What’s the difference between the Texans this year and last year? Coaching? Right?

 

Sometimes you’re fun to discuss with, but it’s much less fun when you pivot to “you’re missing the point” instead of “you’re blowing my evidence and argument out of the water.”

 

You are missing the point, entirely.  

 

You clearly cannot discern between starting play and non-starting (aka backup/support) play.  I mean what is someone to do with that.  

 

I didn't control his starting time, here or there.  

 

The point all along is that on a per-game basis where he (or Moss for that matter) have been the bell cow RB, they've both performed better elsewhere, with lesser QBs, in one case much lesser, in the other, a rookie.  That's meaningless to you though.  OK 

 

I attribute it to, yes, coaching, but also strategy.  OLs in particular.  I mean what, it's a big secret that we haven't exactly gone world-class in bolstering our OL on Beane's watch or something?  

 

Anyway, no need to discuss further.  You've made your point, if you truly believe all that, great.  

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Thats great. If Ty Johnson had started every game, he could’ve had those numbers on 4.4 YPC.

 

But when Singletary started here he couldn't.  

 

Got it!  

 

Hence my point, as well as questioning whether Ty Johnson would either.  

 

 

[BarleyNY]

54 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Again, Cook had six total touches on 3rd downs all season.  Dorsey v. Brady doesn't even come into play there.  He had two total rushing TDs, one vs. Miami in garbage time.  

 

All that I'm positing is that this is the their design for the team.  

 

 

Cook isn’t a good pass blocker so he’s tough to put in on a lot of third downs. Presumably that would be within the skill set of a complimentary back.

 

At this point I have no idea what your point is. You seem to be arguing against the assertion that it would be good to bring in some help for Cook. A RB who can take some of the load off of him - especially with the increased workload under Brady - as well as complement his skill set. If so, then I disagree and I’ll leave it there. If not, then what’s your point?

[FireChans]

45 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

I attribute it to, yes, coaching, but also strategy.  OLs in particular.  I mean what, it's a big secret that we haven't exactly gone world-class in bolstering our OL on Beane's watch or something?  

 

Anyway, no need to discuss further.  You've made your point, if you truly believe all that, great.  

 

 

 

 

 

But when Singletary started here he couldn't.  

 

Got it!  

 

Hence my point, as well as questioning whether Ty Johnson would either.  

 

 

BTW, if Singletary had put up 1,500 rushing here, even on 4.2 YPC, and had 1,800 total YFS, no one would have been upset.  ... except for you maybe.  

 

Except he...... didn't. Ever. If I was a bus, we could all go for a ride.

 

In other news, when he had 12 or more carries in Houston, the Texans went 7-1.  When he had 58 or more yards they were 6-1.  

 

Wow, that's impressive.  In 2022, when Singletary had 12 or more carries in Buffalo, the Bills went 7-1.  When he had 58 or more yards, they were 5-0. You have discovered that teams that are winning football games run a lot. That's true.

 

And just BTW, in games where he had 16 or more carries, he averaged 4.5 YPC.  

 

Wow again. I'm really cooked here. Oh wait, when Singletary had 12 or more carries in Buffalo, he averaged 4.88 YPC. When he had 16 or more carries, he averaged 5.9 YPC. Oops.

 

The point all along is that on a per-game basis where he (or Moss for that matter) have been the bell cow RB, they've both performed better elsewhere, with lesser QBs, in one case much lesser, in the other, a rookie.

 

Hard to be more wrong here. By every measure you put out, (except projection where you didn't even show your work for your fake number), Singletary was clearly better in Buffalo last year. You lose. Say uncle.

 

 

Edited March 17 by FireChans

[RyanC883]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:59 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

I've kind of been liking Isaac Guarando from Louisville. Size (6' 221lbs), speed (4.33 40) and some athletic prowess (9.98 RAS).

 

Unfortunately, he destroyed it at the Combine and I'm seeing him some places projected in round 4, which is a bit higher than I'd want to take a RB this year 

 

I’d take take him in rd 4. 

[Breakout Squad]

On 3/15/2024 at 7:16 AM, BillsFanForever19 said:

There's no need to rush right now.

 

There's still a lot of veterans out there that could fill the RB2 role. Ezekiel Elliott, Kareem Hunt, Alexander Mattison, Clyde Edwards-Helaire, D'Onta Foreman, Cam Akers - one of these guys will be left without a chair when the music stops and will have to accept what they can get. Just be patient and get the best guy and deal you can get.

 

Braelon Allen and Audric Estime are two big bodied, powerful runners that we visited with at the Combine. I'm really high on Allen. If they can land one of them on Day 3, I'd pull the trigger.

Kareem Hunt would be solid. Guy is a beast. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Cook is under contract for 2 more years, I can see us drafting his clone/replacement next year. 
 

4th/5th round power back wouldn’t shock me. 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Cook isn’t a good pass blocker so he’s tough to put in on a lot of third downs. Presumably that would be within the skill set of a complimentary back.

 

At this point I have no idea what your point is. You seem to be arguing against the assertion that it would be good to bring in some help for Cook. A RB who can take some of the load off of him - especially with the increased workload under Brady - as well as complement his skill set. If so, then I disagree and I’ll leave it there. If not, then what’s your point?

 

The point is that we're where we are because of deliberate decision-making, yet, they're still trying to figure it out after what, 6 drafts.  

 

The other point is that Cook is what he is, it's not like it was a big surprise after we drafted him.  

 

If the situation is inadequate, then it's that way by design, perhaps poor design which some would argue, but either way, by design, aka that's what they wanted.  

Let's not overthink this. 

 

The other part is that maybe they're not so good at planning these things when both Singletary and Moss go to different teams and play better when given the chance to start more often, more carries, more games, more touches, etc.  i.e., maybe it's not primarily the players that are the reasons.  

 

 

Edited March 17 by PBF81