CURTIS SAMUEL A BILL

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Samual absolutely can play outside, but a unique quality our top 3 WRs now have is outside/slot flexibility. All 3 are effective in the slot, and all 3 are effective out wide. 
 

Samuel reminds me SO MUCH of prime John Brown. 
 

Kincaid/Knox also are effective in the slot, Cook out wide. 
 

Brady must be drooling. 

Cook needs to work on his catches. Towards the end of the season he was dropping too many balls for my liking 

[Mango]

23 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This is such an indictment of last years room, but I think you’re correct.

 

Diggs = Diggs

Shakir = Shakir

Samuel > Davis 

Hollins > Harty

 

Diggs is a year older, but Shakir entering Year 3 should be coming into his own.  Gabe Davis is a solid WR, but not what we need .. his skillset is just far too inconsistent and limited in the passing game.  Hollins isn’t anything amazing, but he is a big target down the field who is capable of making a few catches per game if you need him.

 

We’re an early round WR investment away from having a room with the potential to exceed the Diggs, Beasley, Sanders, Davis year. 

 

Samuel doesn't play on the outside. He is a slot guy through and through. Comparing him to Davis doesn't make any sense. Two very different roles in the offense. 

You would want to compare him to Shakir in last years offense. 

All that said everybody knows the plan is to get a WR to play on the outside in Davis spot. But if there are some growing pains Shakir is a pretty versatile guy who absolutely can play in both positions effectively. I think he has some Robert Woods in him as well. 

I like the Samuel signing, but we also seem to get these mid-tier FA to block our draft picks at times. Samuel and Shakir seem to be an example of that. Shakir is in a good spot to take on more responsibility in the offense and we just signed his replacement in the slot and the entire world knows that we are going to take an outside guy early. 

We need more WR talent. I get it. But also we blocked playing time for Shakir and Hodgins (who both flashed when given reps) with Curtis Samuel, Deonte Harty, and Isaiah McKenzie (to an extent). 
 

[SCBills]

20 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Samuel doesn't play on the outside. He is a slot guy through and through. Comparing him to Davis doesn't make any sense. Two very different roles in the offense. 

You would want to compare him to Shakir in last years offense. 

All that said everybody knows the plan is to get a WR to play on the outside in Davis spot. But if there are some growing pains Shakir is a pretty versatile guy who absolutely can play in both positions effectively. I think he has some Robert Woods in him as well. 

I like the Samuel signing, but we also seem to get these mid-tier FA to block our draft picks at times. Samuel and Shakir seem to be an example of that. Shakir is in a good spot to take on more responsibility in the offense and we just signed his replacement in the slot and the entire world knows that we are going to take an outside guy early. 

We need more WR talent. I get it. But also we blocked playing time for Shakir and Hodgins (who both flashed when given reps) with Curtis Samuel, Deonte Harty, and Isaiah McKenzie (to an extent). 
 

It’s not a 1 for 1, but I see the WR room as follows:

 

Diggs (outside)

Samuel (slot)

RD1 or RD2 WR (outside)

Shakir (inside/outside)

 

We can move all of them around, but if we draft a guy high, I think Shakir becomes a heavy use WR4 rotating in all over the field. 

[Mango]

Just now, SCBills said:

It’s not a 1 for 1, but I see the WR room as follows:

 

Diggs (outside)

Samuel (slot)

RD1 or RD2 WR (outside)

Shakir (inside/outside)

 

We can move all of them around, but if we draft a guy high, I think Shakir becomes a heavy use WR4 rotating in all over the field. 

 

Right but you directly compared Davis to Samuel and their roles are not comparable. Signing Samuel does not upgrade Davis. I guess I am not only responding to you, but so much of this thread is talking about Samuel upgrading Davis that I am sort of responding to everybody. 

 

Quote

 

Diggs = Diggs

Shakir = Shakir

Samuel > Davis 

Hollins > Harty

 

 

Worth noting that Harty was our starting slot receiver for most of the season. Shakir took the job towards the end/in the playoffs. Samuel is certainly an upgrade to Harty.  Shakir has been outplaying the guys in front of him for some time now. 

I am all for adding more talent, and this signing is definitely that, but the constant veteran leapfrogging of some of our draft picks is a little weird. I am pretty high on Shakir and think he may actually be better than Samuel given full time starter duties/reps. 

[Warriorspikes51]

32 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Samuel doesn't play on the outside. He is a slot guy through and through. Comparing him to Davis doesn't make any sense. Two very different roles in the offense. 

You would want to compare him to Shakir in last years offense. 

All that said everybody knows the plan is to get a WR to play on the outside in Davis spot. But if there are some growing pains Shakir is a pretty versatile guy who absolutely can play in both positions effectively. I think he has some Robert Woods in him as well. 

I like the Samuel signing, but we also seem to get these mid-tier FA to block our draft picks at times. Samuel and Shakir seem to be an example of that. Shakir is in a good spot to take on more responsibility in the offense and we just signed his replacement in the slot and the entire world knows that we are going to take an outside guy early. 

We need more WR talent. I get it. But also we blocked playing time for Shakir and Hodgins (who both flashed when given reps) with Curtis Samuel, Deonte Harty, and Isaiah McKenzie (to an extent). 
 

 

 

Except he does.....  In his career:   45% Lined Up Out Wide 

[Mat68]

He lined up 50% in slot 45% outside and the rest in the backfield.  Why does that make him slot only?  What is the infatuation with “X” wr.  Outside only?  The best Wrs line up everywhere.  The X who cant play anywhere else because they dont have the short area quickness died in the 90’s.  I expect they draft a guy either rd 1 or 2.  They will have the ability to win deep or intermediate.   Contested catch, open when not open throw in the trash and leave it there. 

[Warriorspikes51]

 

Samuel is a Man beater.  88% or higher success rate vs man coverage 3 straight years

[PrimeTime101]

40 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

"Volume stats are not there" ...  I have a huge amount of respect for Cover 1.  But sometimes when they make statements like this, they leave out the main reason (even though they cover it in their video's) why the "Volume" stats are not there...  Should we discuss who has been Washingtons QB the last 3 years?

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Samuel is a Man beater.  88% or higher success rate vs man coverage 3 straight years

That is 1000% the biggest need in January for 4 years on offense.

[CaptnCoke11]

42 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Samuel doesn't play on the outside. He is a slot guy through and through. Comparing him to Davis doesn't make any sense. Two very different roles in the offense. 

You would want to compare him to Shakir in last years offense. 

All that said everybody knows the plan is to get a WR to play on the outside in Davis spot. But if there are some growing pains Shakir is a pretty versatile guy who absolutely can play in both positions effectively. I think he has some Robert Woods in him as well. 

I like the Samuel signing, but we also seem to get these mid-tier FA to block our draft picks at times. Samuel and Shakir seem to be an example of that. Shakir is in a good spot to take on more responsibility in the offense and we just signed his replacement in the slot and the entire world knows that we are going to take an outside guy early. 

We need more WR talent. I get it. But also we blocked playing time for Shakir and Hodgins (who both flashed when given reps) with Curtis Samuel, Deonte Harty, and Isaiah McKenzie (to an extent). 
 

46% of his career snaps came on the outside so you are dead wrong 

[njbuff]

46 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Cook needs to work on his catches. Towards the end of the season he was dropping too many balls for my liking 

 

Cook can be a helluva weapon out of the backfield.

 

He should be at the jugs 23 hours a day. 😁

[YoloinOhio]

48 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Cook needs to work on his catches. Towards the end of the season he was dropping too many balls for my liking 

Not just dropping balls. Dropping TDs.

[BullBuchanan]

Solid pickup. It surpasses what i thought was possible in terms of talent given the money we had and the market. The money is a little rich for a guy who's perennially been called a breakout candidate that never did, but I guess it's the going rate for a warm body with a history of production. It's less than what he made with Washington, so that's interesting. With Hollywood brown going to KC fr 1/$11M, I guess Beane was looking at a different kind of market. $15M guaranteed means he's definitely here for 2 years, and in an ideal world, he's your #4 by the start of next season, making the $7M a lot.

I still have my hopes pinned on Shakir becoming our top weapon going forward. He was an absolute beast that was under utilized last year. This does give us some buffer to not have to take a WR early and given our holes on defense, we might have to wait until after the first two picks to get more weapons.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Why are people so against…

 

… moves that clearly give JA17 more dangerous weapons

 

… having RBs/WRs who can be deployed all over the field

 

… being able to disguise which pass catchers are doing what (remember that pre-snap motion is a thing)

 

… stats showing Samuel is not strictly a slot WR but is a model of production consistency

 

… the idea that a “boundary WR” can be less than 6’3” 215 and still win because separation is actually the most important attribute

 

… ?

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Why are people so against…

 

… moves that clearly give JA17 more dangerous weapons

 

… having RBs/WRs who can be deployed all over the field

 

… being able to disguise which pass catchers are doing what (remember that pre-snap motion is a thing)

 

… stats showing Samuel is not strictly a slot WR but is a model of production consistency

 

… the idea that a “boundary WR” can be less than 6’3” 215 and still win because separation is actually the most important attribute

 

… ?

 

I wouldn't worry about the board members who don't like the signing.  You won't convince them to change their minds.

[947]

We've been very lucky the past couple seasons with WR health, that won't continue forever. Adding Samuel & a rookie keeps us from having this year's Sherfield equivalent play a pivotal role in meaningful games.

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

It’s the biggest problem. You can argue he’s done a great job with DL depth every year, it’s doesn’t change that the WR group has been completely mismanaged.

Look at our winning record  during Beanes time  with the Bills.  The division championships,  the playoff wins.

 

So the wr group was not up to your stanard.  Wa wa wa.

 

Mahomes is the reason we have not been to the super bowl.   Nit our wide receivers.

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Thanks but I liked @FireChans "don't p!ss on our heads and tell us it's raining better" though. 

 

It's a message board we are going to draw distinctions between winning SB's versus getting beaten in the divisional round every year.    

 

If you think it's all the same level of accomplishment.........that's your prerogative to feel that way but the objective of the game is, in fact,  to win the SB.   

 

  The standard is the standard and accepting that and "not enjoying" the ride are not necessarily the same thing.    Not that this past season was a joy ride for everyone involved with or following the Bills.   I mean ask Ken Dorsey if he'd have liked to have DHop.

OK course.  We would like to have a pro bowl player at every position. Who wouldn't? 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Look at our winning record  during Beanes time  with the Bills.  The division championships,  the playoff wins.

 

So the wr group was not up to your stanard.  Wa wa wa.

 

Mahomes is the reason we have not been to the super bowl.   Nit our wide receivers.

OK course.  We would like to have a pro bowl player at every position. Who wouldn't? 

Maybe if our receivers were better than Mahomes’, we would’ve been to a Super Bowl.

 

Unfortunately, we got stuck with Trent Sherfield and his alligator arm efforts led us to need a FG to tie in the closing minutes. Which was predictably shanked. 
 

No one is saying Beane sucks or the Bills suck. Their WR management and group has been overall insufficient. Who could argue this? No one.

 

I know you can’t even debate it because you hilariously aren’t even trying to. You just say things like, “we won the AFCE” like that has anything to do with the conversation. 
 

If you want to tell me that the investments into the WR group over the last 3 seasons have been good, I’d love to hear why. Otherwise, you just want to wave poms poms and you should just quit while you’re behind.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

14 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I wouldn't worry about the board members who don't like the signing.  You won't convince them to change their minds.

Going to be fun to unearth some takes come Fall though

[ngbills]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

I get the comparison to Beasley... He's LIKE Beasley, but he will be able to do so many other things for you do to speed.  John Brown Like Bubble screen type stuff.. Lil Dirty type stuff... at times run out of the backfield. Catch out of the backfield.  He's also not a Debo... but he can do a lot more things.. So just comparing him to Beasley does not do this guy justice. 

That is not doing Beasley justice. Beas had a better career pre Buffalo than Samuel. But I get what your saying - different players and different skillset. Samuel is more flexible and versatile than Beasley. Beasley was a better pure slot but Samuel adds more trickery, running out of the backfield, etc.

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Maybe if our receivers were better than Mahomes’, we would’ve been to a Super Bowl.

 

Unfortunately, we got stuck with Trent Sherfield and his alligator arm efforts led us to need a FG to tie in the closing minutes. Which was predictably shanked. 
 

No one is saying Beane sucks or the Bills suck. Their WR management and group has been overall insufficient. Who could argue this? No one.

 

I know you can’t even debate it because you hilariously aren’t even trying to. You just say things like, “we won the AFCE” like that has anything to do with the conversation. 
 

If you want to tell me that the investments into the WR group over the last 3 seasons have been good, I’d love to hear why. Otherwise, you just want to wave poms poms and you should just quit while you’re behind.

If Hopkins is a Bill in that playoff game vs KC the Bills win. No doubt.