Does Beane have anymore significant moves left in his bag of tricks?

[Nephilim17]

If a couple weeks ago you asked a lot of us if we'd be good with Beane getting us cap compliant and resigning Jones and getting Samuel and losing Morse and Poyer I think many would've taken it.

I would have.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's pretty much the point.  What we've signed are more support type WRs, not anything that's going to solve the problem we have at WR.  

 

Again, not sure how we avoid being forced to take a WR with our 28th.  ... barring  slight trade up or down.  

 

Samuel's a decent signing, but there's the typical overreaction to it as well.  

 

As usual, nothing we do or say changes anything, we'll see how it shakes out.  

 

 

 

 

We don't have a problem at WR, especially now. We have a chance to raise production if we can somehow bring in another #1. But we don't have a problem, not with Allen throwing to Diggs, a second-year Kincaid and the two new additions.

 

We were 4th in passing yards and 7th in passing TDs. That's not a problem. Certainly there's room for improvement, no question, and in fact most of us do think they're likely to go WR very early in the draft.

 

Our pass catchers were as good as KC's last year. Did they have "a problem"? We don't either. Gabe's loss has probably been just about made up for with the new FAs, IMO.

 

The Bills teams with Beasley and Sanders and Brown, the guys you're referring to as "support type WRs", had terrific passing attacks. If we win the coin flip in the 13 seconds game, we'd've won it. They weren't stopping us.

 

Samuel's a good signing, not a decent one. He had Beasley / Sanders / Brown type production with crap QBs throwing to him, playing across from McLaurin and Jahan Dotson. Gotta admit, I hadn't realized he'd run a 4.31 40. The guy can fly.

 

Very much agreed we fans don't change things. We'll see what actually happens down the road. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

Edited March 15 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

15 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Has there been a lot of criticism of Beane in these threads?  

I  haven't criticized Beane at all in 2024 so far, but let's be honest, whatever situation that we're in, this has been his roster for 6 drafts going on 7 now.  

 

So if people are critical, Beane would seem to be the core person to direct their discontent, no?  

 

Since we're on the topic however, if there's one reason to consider criticizing him, wouldn't it be the WR situation?  We haven't had a season yet on his watch where people here have been satisfied with our WRs as an entire unit.  

 

Now we're heading into a draft with arguably one of the weakest WR situations we've had since when, 2019?  The consensus opinion here is that Diggs has lost a step and is no longer a solid #1.  We have no #2, only Shakir in the slot, now Samuel and Hollins to compete with him, neither having held down a #2 spot well before.  

 

Beane hasn't drafted a WR on days 1 or 2 on his 6-year draft watch.  Isn't that worthy of criticism?  Not necessarily suggestive that he should be fired or anything, but certainly something that is an issue due to his management of the roster, no?  

 

Simply playing a little devil's advocate.  People point out a lot of things wrong with our team, but it's never anyone's fault.  

 

 

 

 

I think this is fair, but IMO, that fans are not "satisfied with our WRs as an entire unit" is more of a comment on the nature of fans than it is on the WRs. People wouldn't be fully happy till you're like Cincy with Higgins and Chase. 

 

And in reality very very few teams manage to get two guys like that.

 

And I'm not sure that's the consensus about Diggs. I'd argue that the consensus is that he MAY have lost a step, or it may have been something else, and that we'll have to see.

 

Is it worthy of criticism that he hasn't drafted a day 1 or 2 WR? No. Particularly when they used one of their first rounders to trade for Diggs, and that another 1st rounder went last year to a guy who looks like a terrific pass catcher, Kincaid, no. I certainly don't think so.

 

If their WR situation absolutely sucked, then that would be a far worse indicator. But we don't suck. We're pretty good but not excellent. Under those circumstances, situations and environments might easily produce better possibilities for improving the team.

 

By the way, Tompsett on Cover1 just said that Matt Harmon on twitter just put out a very good tweet w/ a great review on the Curtis Samuel pickup. If you're on twitter (I'm not), might be worth a look.

[LABILLBACKER]

10 hours ago, Sweats said:

As far as FA goes, you can pretty well put that baby to bed.

It's been a long, longgggggggg time since i've looked forward this much to a draft. I've got a feeling Beane is going to bundle up some picks and wheel and deal.

Yeah, we're definitely not coming away with 11 players. Feels like 7-8. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

We don't have a problem at WR, especially now. We have a chance to raise production if we can somehow bring in another #1. But we don't have a problem, not with Allen throwing to Diggs, a second-year Kincaid and the two new additions.

 

We were 4th in passing yards and 7th in passing TDs. That's not a problem. Certainly there's room for improvement, no question, and in fact most of us do think they're likely to go WR very early in the draft.

Our pass catchers were as good as KC's last year. Did they have "a problem"?

 

There's a lot of subjectivity in your two posts there.  And "decent" vs. "good" needs defining of both words, I'm guessing we agree just using different words.

 

KC did have a WR problem.

 

As to us at 4th & 7th, I'd argue that given that we have Allen that we should consistently be in the to three in both.  

 

Debatable nonetheless.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

I still thinm we need a safety. Curl went to LAC for 2 years $13m. Man..... I'd have bitten your hand off for that deal here. 

 

Seriously. If we start the season with Taylor Rapp and Cam Lewis I will cry a little. 

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

There's a lot of subjectivity in your two posts there.  And "decent" vs. "good" needs defining of both words, I'm guessing we agree just using different words.

 

KC did have a WR problem.

 

As to us at 4th & 7th, I'd argue that given that we have Allen that we should consistently be in the to three in both.  

 

Debatable nonetheless.

 

 

 

 

There is indeed a lot of subjectivity in my posts.

 

Yours too, of course. But certainly in mine also.

 

"KC did have a WR problem," you say? Well, this is both very subjective and very arguable. If the Super Bowl winners have that kind of a problem, I don't mind having that kind of problem. More reasonably, though, is that KC didn't have a problem anymore than we do. I might have gone there until Rashee Rice developed so quickly. He's a solid decent guy.

 

Like the Bills, they certainly have one of the better pass catchers in the league, in Diggs and in Kelce.

 

As for, "given that we have Josh Allen ... we should consistently be in the top three in both," that is pretty much the definition of subjective. The fact is that even with elite QBs a lot don't make the top three in both in any given year than do.

 

Mahomes last year was 6th and 8th, and his team won the Super Bowl. The year before, Mahomes was 1st and 1st and they did NOT won the Super Bowl. The year before, 2021, Mahomes was 4th and 4th and they DID NOT win the Super Bowl. The year before, 2020, 2nd and 4th and they DID win. The year before, 10th and 9th. The  year before that 2nd and 1st and they did NOT win.

 

EDIT: I apologize for leaving in the middle of my editing. I left several sentences unfinished and a factual mistake also when I took off for work. Sorry about that. Meant to leave it unposted and finish it later. After returning, I think I've fixed it all.

 

He's been in the league six years and was in the top three in both yards and TDs only two times. Of their THREE Super Bowl wins, Mahomes was in the top in both categories only of those times.

 

You don't win Super Bowls by having the best receiver groups or by being top three in passing yards and TDs.

 

You win Super Bowls by being the best team.

 

Another example:  In Brady's last ten years in New England, (five Super Bowls, including three wins) he looks like that:

 

2019  7th and 13th   No Super Bowl

2018  7th and 10th   Lombardi winner

2017  1st and 3rd   Super Bowl loss

2016  20th and 9th  Lombardi winner

2015  3rd and 1st  No Super Bowl

2014   10th and 6th   Lombardi winner

2013   6th and 11th   No Super Bowl

2012   4th and 4th   No Super Bowl

2011   2nd and 4th   No Super Bowl

2010   8th and 1st   Super Bowl loss

 

So Brady, arguably the GOAT and certainly on one of the greatest dynasties of all time, managed to be in the top three of both of those measures two times out of his last ten years in New England. And in neither of those two years did they win a Lombardi, despite three championships during that span.

 

Expecting Allen to "consistently be in the to three in both" measures is both unreasonable and ultimately beside the point.

 

Again, Super Bowls aren't won by having a QB be in the top three in both yards and TDs. They are won by having a really good team.

Edited March 15 by Thurman#1

[SoonerBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

We don't have a problem at WR, especially now. We have a chance to raise production if we can somehow bring in another #1. But we don't have a problem, not with Allen throwing to Diggs, a second-year Kincaid and the two new additions.

 

We were 4th in passing yards and 7th in passing TDs. That's not a problem. Certainly there's room for improvement, no question, and in fact most of us do think they're likely to go WR very early in the draft.

 

Our pass catchers were as good as KC's last year. Did they have "a problem"? We don't either. Gabe's loss has probably been just about made up for with the new FAs, IMO.

 

The Bills teams with Beasley and Sanders and Brown, the guys you're referring to as "support type WRs", had terrific passing attacks. If we win the coin flip in the 13 seconds game, we'd've won it. They weren't stopping us.

 

Samuel's a good signing, not a decent one. He had Beasley / Sanders / Brown type production with crap QBs throwing to him, playing across from McLaurin and Jahan Dotson. Gotta admit, I hadn't realized he'd run a 4.31 40. The guy can fly.

 

Very much agreed we fans don't change things. We'll see what actually happens down the road. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

WR round 1.  Diggs won't be here next offseason.  He is on the downside of his career and I am betting if his contract wasn't what it is, he would have been traded this year.

[PBF81]

51 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

WR round 1.  Diggs won't be here next offseason.  He is on the downside of his career and I am betting if his contract wasn't what it is, he would have been traded this year.

 

The biggest takeaway implied by your post is that they need to plan for the time when Diggs is not here, not react to his departure as an afterthought once it occurs.  

 

 

[NoSaint]

Definitely some moves left but not likely splashy.

 

something at safety and I wouldn’t be shocked by CEH/D’Onta at rb for instance 

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The biggest takeaway implied by your post is that they need to plan for the time when Diggs is not here, not react to his departure as an afterthought once it occurs.  

 

 

Be proactive, not reactive. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I still thinm we need a safety. Curl went to LAC for 2 years $13m. Man..... I'd have bitten your hand off for that deal here. 

 

Seriously. If we start the season with Taylor Rapp and Cam Lewis I will cry a little. 

I agree with you.  You think Simmons will cost a little more than that, Blackmon about the same?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I agree with you.  You think Simmons will cost a little more than that, Blackmon about the same?

 

Hopefull Blackmon a little less?

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

WR round 1.  Diggs won't be here next offseason.  He is on the downside of his career and I am betting if his contract wasn't what it is, he would have been traded this year.

 

 

All that is certainly possible. Most likely not so with Diggs not being here in 2025, but yeah, possible.

 

WR in round 1 also possible. It'll depend how the draft falls, as it always does.

[mjt328]

8 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Has there been a lot of criticism of Beane in these threads?  

I  haven't criticized Beane at all in 2024 so far, but let's be honest, whatever situation that we're in, this has been his roster for 6 drafts going on 7 now.  

 

So if people are critical, Beane would seem to be the core person to direct their discontent, no?  

 

What is the situation the Bills are in?

- The second best Winning Pct. in the NFL over the last 5 years?  

- Five straight postseason births

- Four straight AFC East titles and Wild Card Round victories

 

 

Nobody is satisfied with these accomplishments.  We all want a Super Bowl win.  And falling short is horribly frustrating.

 

But everyone needs to remember the NFL postseason is a single-game elimination situation.  One shot and you are done.  

Beane has put together a roster good enough to put us in position 4 years in a row.  There are multiple factors on why the team hasn't gotten over the hump yet, and roster management is far at the bottom of that list.

 

 

8 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Since we're on the topic however, if there's one reason to consider criticizing him, wouldn't it be the WR situation?  We haven't had a season yet on his watch where people here have been satisfied with our WRs as an entire unit.  

 

I would very much disagree with this statement.

People weren't satisfied with the Stefon Diggs, John Brown, Cole Beasley, Gabe Davis lineup?  That was one of the best in the NFL at the time.

People weren't satisfied when Brown was later replaced with Emmanuel Sanders?  That was pretty good too.

 

Things didn't start going downhill until Beasley was released, and Davis failed to step up as the #2.  

Which was the middle of the 2022 season.

 

8 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Now we're heading into a draft with arguably one of the weakest WR situations we've had since when, 2019?  The consensus opinion here is that Diggs has lost a step and is no longer a solid #1.  We have no #2, only Shakir in the slot, now Samuel and Hollins to compete with him, neither having held down a #2 spot well before.  

 

Beane hasn't drafted a WR on days 1 or 2 on his 6-year draft watch.  Isn't that worthy of criticism?  Not necessarily suggestive that he should be fired or anything, but certainly something that is an issue due to his management of the roster, no?  

 

Simply playing a little devil's advocate.  People point out a lot of things wrong with our team, but it's never anyone's fault.  

 

 

Beane traded his #1 pick for Diggs.  That counts.

Beane clearly wanted to target a WR in Round 1 last year, but there was a huge run before we picked.  He still went for a receiving weapon on Dalton Kincaid.

 

There are 22 starting positions on the roster.  In the span of six drafts, you start with exactly 18 picks on Day 1-2.

He did spend one of those on Diggs.  It's not realistic to expect him to address every position with a high pick every couple seasons.  

 

[Warriorspikes51]

I'd take Mike Williams on a 1 year deal.  If he can somehow stay healthy, he's a beast.  
 

BUT if we did this, I'd still want a Round 1 WR

 

 

[Thurman#1]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hopefull Blackmon a little less?

 

 

Yeah, maybe. My guess is they're going to bring in at least one vet FA at safety, but not necessarily one they expect to start. We'll see.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, maybe. My guess is they're going to bring in at least one vet FA at safety, but not necessarily one they expect to start. We'll see.

 

I really hope you are wrong.

[Thurman#1]

16 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Beane traded his #1 pick for Diggs.  That counts.

 

 

 

Yes, precisely.

 

In his six drafts, he's twice used a first-rounder on a pass catcher, in Diggs and Kincaid.

 

Would people only have been happy if he'd used three 1sts in his six years?

 

In any case, seems likely we'll use either a 1st or a 2nd this year on a pass catcher if the board falls favorably, which with the large number of good WR prospects seems pretty likely.

 

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I really hope you are wrong.

 

 

Heh heh. Fair enough.

 

But why? What would be wrong with bringing in at least one more safety, especially if lower-level FAs are included?

 

Don't feel a need to answer if you don't want to.

 

Beane generally tries to go into the draft with no real needs. Would you be happy going into the draft with our current safeties?

 

 

Edited March 15 by Thurman#1

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Be proactive, not reactive. 

 

And there's room for criticism there.