Irv Posted March 13 Posted March 13 Seeing that there is a vote to ban Tik Tok. I have not used this website. This vote to ban, however, has me concerned. This looks like to me that if banned, might be treading on the first amendment. 3
B-Man Posted March 13 Posted March 13 Concern over the China controlled TikTok is correct. However, what Congress is pulling is NOT the way to go. . . . . . . . . . . it's not even a ban really. Here’s what’s actually going on with the TikTok fight right now. Deep State toadies are taking advantage of anti-China sentiment to transfer TikTok’s surveillance apparatus from China’s evil surveillance state to the U.S. government’s evil surveillance state. TikTok isn’t going to be banned, because neither the CCP-run Chinese government nor the CCP-owned U.S. government wants to lose such a valuable tool for spying on Americans and poisoning the minds of their children. Instead, the corrupt U.S. intelligence bureaucracy wants control of TikTok, which is why it included the divestment mandate. Only a handful of U.S. companies are capable of buying and managing TikTok, and they already function as appendages of the Deep State surveillance apparatus. It’s not that the U.S. government wants to protect you from spying and data theft and manipulation. If only. No, the people behind the Russian collusion hoax, and the Kavanaugh hoax, and the natural origin COVID hoax, and the illegal warrantless spying, and the forced transing of your children —they want to be the ones spying on you and stealing your data and poisoning the minds of your children. For additional paragraphs, push the Show More link 1 2
Wacka Posted March 13 Posted March 13 (edited) Trump proposed this ban in 2018 or so. Of course it was bad then because...Trump. Edited March 13 by Wacka 1 1
B-Man Posted March 13 Posted March 13 Rand Paul: Proposed TikTok ban ‘makes no sense’ BY SARAH FORTINSKY https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4527989-rand-paul-proposed-tiktok-ban-makes-no-sense/ 1
ChiGoose Posted March 13 Posted March 13 There are serious national security concerns about a highly addictive app that vacuums data to send to the Chinese Communist Party but I am not sure outright banning an application like this is the best solution.
Tommy Callahan Posted March 13 Posted March 13 They wanted it for it's propaganda purposes. Since they wouldn't sell, it's banned. If it can't be utilized, it must be banned. 1
B-Man Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Will the Senate Vote to Ban TikTok? It’s Hard to Tell By Jeff Charles More at the link: https://redstate.com/jeffc/2024/03/13/will-the-senate-vote-to-ban-tiktok-its-hard-to-tell-n2171358 1
Buffarukus Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Havent read the bill but i watch alot of pundits that are skeptical of government. Supposedly this is not a tik tok ban at all. It is a bill so that 4 hostile states alone cannot have large investments in websites or services that operate in the US. China, russia, north korea, iran. If tik tok divests from chinese interests it can operate as it does today with no changes. Its refusing. Theory is the reason they are going after it now is because it is the prime website used promoting the gaza stance. Bipartisan agreement is in backing Israel so bipartisan agreement in this bill. They read specific wording to back the claim that this bill is highly focused on specifics so doesnt sound like broad overreach for the most part so far.
Andy1 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 In have no opinion on the ban but find it interesting that this is the first issue in forever that is not defined by partisan politics. Legislators actually have to think about it instead of going with the default party position. 3
The Frankish Reich Posted March 14 Posted March 14 Our stupid politics. 1. This confused me: Renewed efforts by Congress to force TikTok to sell or face a ban in the US have the backing of the White House, even as President Joe Biden’s reelection campaign has started to use the platform to reach younger voters. I’m confused. If using Tiktok endangers national security, then why is Biden using TikTok? I get that his specific tweets don’t endanger security, but doesn’t his use make TikTok more popular? 2. I’m confused. Why would Trump try to ban TikTok in 2020, and then suddenly support TikTok after meeting a GOP investor who own’s $21 billion worth of TikTok, right after losing some legal cases that threaten to bankrupt him? That's from economist Scott Sumner at themoneyillusion.com. 1 1
ChiGoose Posted March 14 Posted March 14 I feel like the focus on trying to ban TikTok for it's very real problems is because big moneyed interests like Meta, Alphabet, and the rest would prefer to have the government axe a competitor than enact an actual solution like the EU's General Data Protection Regulation. There's no real reason to have this rushed through other than to take advantage of a moment and avoid having real discussions that might result in a better outcome that is disliked by influential donors. 1
ComradeKayAdams Posted March 15 Posted March 15 13 hours ago, Buffarukus said: Theory is the reason they are going after it now is because it is the prime website used promoting the gaza stance. Bipartisan agreement is in backing Israel so bipartisan agreement in this bill. Yup, basically. Corporate oligarchs and their political minions blame TikTok for Gen Z rejecting Zionist narratives, thereby destabilizing American politics. But the realities of the ongoing Gazan genocide are alone to be blamed for that (see: my 13-point post in the “Israel and the Slaughter in Gaza” thread, page 183). Banning TikTok will only lead to further destabilization of American politics. 13 hours ago, Andy1 said: In have no opinion on the ban but find it interesting that this is the first issue in forever that is not defined by partisan politics. Legislators actually have to think about it instead of going with the default party position. I’m guessing that it’s probably still defined by partisan politics, but this time outside the left vs. right paradigm and by roughly more of a populist vs. establishment one. I see that all of my people (the progressives, a.k.a. the left-wing populists) correctly voted “no” on the ban: AOC, Jamaal Bowman, Cori Bush, Greg Casar, Maxwell Frost, Pramila Jayapal, Ro Khanna, Summer Lee, Jerry Nadler, Ilhan Omar, Mark Pocan, Ayanna Pressley, Delia Ramirez, etc…Rashida Tlaib didn’t vote for some reason. Trump and MAGA (a.k.a. the right-wing populists), comparably speaking, are almost but not quite as coherent on this issue. We do know that Trump also hates everything China, loves Bibi 100%, and pretty much helped trigger the procession of events leading up to October 7 when he moved the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Furthermore, I do question the “populism” element in right-wing populism because what these politicians purvey is a rebranded Reagan-era platform of laissez-faire economic policies, behind a veil of Christian nationalism, that solely benefit corporate oligarchs and imperialists. 1
sherpa Posted March 15 Posted March 15 This has been an issue way, way way prior to the Gaza conflict. The Chinese have been mining data on Tic Toc for years, and stats suggest there is serious, organized attempts to influence coming from there. Ever been to China? When I was going there a few times/month, the Google/Gmail think was a pain, but I didn't use any of the others so it wasn't a big deal to me. You could kind of get around it by using a VPN, but they figured that out a few years ago and ended that strategy. Here's a very abbreviated list of application blocked by the Chinese: All Google apps, Gmail, Google search Google chat, Google maps, Google news. Facebook Messenger. Tik Toc-they have their own highly edited version. X-formerly Twitter Snapchat Amazon Prime Netflix HBO and Hulu There are many more. Anyway, the case of their using it as an intel gatherer has been discusssed for a long time. 1
ComradeKayAdams Posted March 15 Posted March 15 3 hours ago, sherpa said: This has been an issue way, way way prior to the Gaza conflict. The Chinese have been mining data on Tic Toc for years, and stats suggest there is serious, organized attempts to influence coming from there. Ever been to China? When I was going there a few times/month, the Google/Gmail think was a pain, but I didn't use any of the others so it wasn't a big deal to me. You could kind of get around it by using a VPN, but they figured that out a few years ago and ended that strategy. Here's a very abbreviated list of application blocked by the Chinese: All Google apps, Gmail, Google search Google chat, Google maps, Google news. Facebook Messenger. Tik Toc-they have their own highly edited version. X-formerly Twitter Snapchat Amazon Prime Netflix HBO and Hulu There are many more. Anyway, the case of their using it as an intel gatherer has been discusssed for a long time. Right, but why the sudden urgency to act upon it now?? That’s the point. Organizations like AIPAC exert influence on politicians via campaign donations (a.k.a. bribes). Such is life in American politics, at least until Citizens United v. FEC (2010) is ever overturned. Everyone is waking up to the rank immorality that is American imperialism and Israeli settler colonialism. The proverbial cat is out of the proverbial bag. “Meow,” cries the kitty. Oooh…kitty has claws, too. Kitty go, “Hiss!” Whether or not banning TikTok can prevent (or could have ever prevented) this moral awakening is immaterial at this point, though I’d argue that the truth will always eventually work its way out through other media platforms. The speed at which the truth spreads is the only true variable. Corporate media entities like MSNBC and New York Times are effectively (non-vegan dietary…Bristol stool scale: type 1) turds in the communication toilet for neoliberal Boomer poopers. TikTok, I suppose, is just one of many possible plungers in this really gross and weird analogy. Now SHOULD the government ban TikTok for general reasons of national defense? That’s a different argument, but also a tired one. Of course not. This was essentially debated ad nauseum during the height of the War on Terror, which itself is part of the U.S. security state’s wider ongoing war on personal freedoms since approximately 1945. Banning is also impractical because similar data is collected elsewhere online and can be acquired by any variety of ways that banning one specific foreign app won’t stop. Now WILL the government ban TikTok? Very doubtful that it passes in the Senate or survives the public outcry. Banning it would be economically detrimental and electorally detrimental (especially for Biden, who badly needs Gen Z to come out and vote). BTW, does anyone here disagree with Commie Kay’s framing of Israeli genocide? Then come debate her in Tibsy’s thread, “Israel and the Slaughter in Gaza.” Start with Kay’s 13-point outline on page 183. Refute her argument, point by point. 2 1
sherpa Posted March 15 Posted March 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, ComradeKayAdams said: Right, but why the sudden urgency to act upon it now?? The urgency is not "now." The Congressional Committee on China was formed in Feb, 2023, and this has been a discussion since they first convened. Things take time, especially when Congress is involved in huge internal struggles, like getting a House Speaker, to move things along. The claim that this is based on Gaza is preposterous. I've seen things about banning this for military personnel a long time ago. China is involved in a cold war type strategy against the US on many levels. Expansion in the Pacific. The continued threat to take over Taiwan. Gross trade violations. Gross intellectual property and industrial thievery and espionage. We can look the other way, but the continued, failed strategy of "just pretend that nothing's going on," is blind negligence. Edited March 15 by sherpa 1
ChiGoose Posted March 22 Posted March 22 In case anyone is wondering why he changed his mind on TikTok. Yass is a major investor in ByteDance, which owns TikTok.
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