What if Allen and Mahomes swapped exact situations?

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Are you allowed to be a Bills fan if you don’t believe your QB is the GOAT?

 

Did we all have to believe Trent would’ve been Brady with better coaching to be Bills fans?

You can leave too. This is a Bills board. If you don't like the Bills, you have no business being here. 

[Matt_In_NH]

48 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Honestly, as much as JA will win us games, he will also lose some due to his sporadic undisciplined improv playing style. I mean, it's fun to watch as fans, but it just has to be a nightmare for the team sometimes.

especially in the playoff and other big games when this stuff happens all the time.  I mean it would be one thing if it happened is like week1 or something.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

To think circumstances and situations don't play huge roles in NFL players careers is ridiculous

 

Patrick mahomes got to learn from the best quarterback whisperer of the last 30 years... Then got to sit for a year behind a pro bowl quarterback

 

Both 100% will benefit any professional quarterback

 

Josh Allen got thrown into the fire with a mediocre offensive line and mediocre weapons... 

 

He was forced to sink or swim... Which has destroyed plenty of players careers

 

Patrick mahomes absolutely needed his 1-year on the bench, which certainly helped his vault into the upper echelon of quarterbacks

 

Football is literally all about situations.. where you go ,what coach you get...

 

To think he'd be the same if he wound up on the cardinals or something

 

It takes two to tango it's always has is always will... Tom Brady getting the greatest defensive Mastermind in NFL history absolutely was crucial to the first decade of his career

 

Sure he maybe didn't need bill when he was 38..  he did when he was 24

 

Tyreek Hill called mahomes trash as a rookie lol sure he probably was over exaggerating... But he was speaking from what he was watching in practice

 

He wasn't ready

 

That's like saying Jordan poyer and Micah Hyde would have turned into all pros anywhere... No they're good football players who owe their accolades to Sean McDermott and putting them in the right spot

 

Very few people like Bruce Smith or Myles Garrett can be successful everywhere

 

There’s no proof that Mahomes needed the year off or would have failed if thrown into the fire. Josh Allen wasn’t perfect mechanically when he came into the league, and he was clearly coached and developed. They were both rough around the edges QB’s who were BOTH developed to become the QB’s they are today. 
 

Not sure why we believe the Bills coaches couldn’t have developed Mahomes when they proved they could develop Allen. 

2 minutes ago, Draconator said:

You can leave too. This is a Bills board. If you don't like the Bills, you have no business being here. 

I LOVE the Bills. Don’t think they have the greatest QB of all time. Sue me lol

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

38 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Josh is missing two things Mahomes has its patience and accuracy. Mahomes would've no doubt taken that underneath pass to Diggs on 2nd and 9. Mahomes started looking like Brady in these playoffs as he took everything the defense was giving him and that's scary thing to see. 

 

Coming out of college Mahomes was the best QB I ever scouted and there's no doubt in my mind he would be the same superstar whether he played for the Bills or basically any other team. 

 

It's not like Mahomes is perfect. He had an open TD to Rice at the end of regulation in the SB but he tunnel visioned on Kelce instead. He had a pretty bad SB until the 4th Q, including an awful INT. 

 

The big difference is that Mahomes kicker did his job and KC's def did their job to give Mahomes more chances to win the game. 

 

 

[gobills1212]

Still with this?

Even under the guise of an original thought....woof

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I LOVE the Bills. 

Your body of work suggests otherwise.

[Gregg]

I do think Mahomes is the better QB but he has 2 other advantages in his favor. Reid is a better HC then McDermott. Also, the Chiefs defense plays well in the playoffs. To many times the Bills defense doesn't.  Like all the playoff games vs the Chiefs and the Bengals game. Even the WC win over the Dolphins that scrub QB they had was moving the ball against them in the 2nd half.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

Your body of work suggests otherwise.

I can love the team AND try to be honest with them.

 

I also don’t think that Ed Oliver is the best DT in football. I don’t think Stefon Diggs is the greatest WR of all time. I don’t think that Jordan Poyer is the greatest safety in the NFL.

 

Somehow, all of those opinions are fine. But believing that Josh is (only) the second best QB in football is sacrilege. Says more about you than it does about me lol.

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I can love the team AND try to be honest with them.

 

I also don’t think that Ed Oliver is the best DT in football. I don’t think Stefon Diggs is the greatest WR of all time. I don’t think that Jordan Poyer is the greatest safety in the NFL.

 

Somehow, all of those opinions are fine. But believing that Josh is (only) the second best QB in football is sacrilege. Says more about you than it does about me lol.

So you've read each one of my posts. Cool bro. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Don't know if it would've changed the outcome. But I know, I'd have liked Josh Allen a whole lot less & Patrick Mahomes a whole lot more.

 

Bc as Jerry Seinfeld said, being a fan is about cheering for the clothes.

[FireChans]

Just now, Draconator said:

So you've read each one of my posts. Cool bro. 

You should be more active in your police work. There’s someone in Batavia that is begrudgingly admitting that Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time. Go get him!

[nedboy7]

What if our touchdowns scored 8 points while KC's scored 5? 

[90sBills]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

I do think Mahomes is the better QB but he has 2 other advantages in his favor. Reid is a better HC than is McDermott. Also, the Chiefs defense plays well in the playoffs. To many times the Bills defense doesn't.  Like all the playoff games vs the Chiefs and the Bengals game. Even the WC win over the Dolphins that scrub QB they had was moving the ball against them in the 2nd half.

Mia didn’t do anything in that game until Allen started turning the ball over taking unnecessary risks. Defense was shutting them down. That game should have been coasting to a win after the big lead early. That’s one of the differences between them two as QBs. Mahomes don’t make those mistakes in the playoffs. KC got up on Balt early and Mahomes cruised control it to the end. Didn’t forced unnecessary throws and let the defense worked. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Look it’s been said in this thread and needs to be said again the difference in these two organizations is one Andy Reid. 
When you start your career with the best offensive mind this league has seen since Bill Walsh that’s a heck of way to start your career. 
Josh started with Rick Dennison and Brian Daboll while the front office was defense  first, second, and third.

Josh’s greatness can never really be measured cause so much is expected of him but quite frankly he’s the best player in this franchises history and if he was with the Chiefs he’d be the best player in their history.
Patrick would be terrific here as well but the difference is Andy Reid.  

 

[Gregg]

11 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Mia didn’t do anything in that game until Allen started turning the ball over taking unnecessary risks. Defense was shutting them down. That game should have been coasting to a win after the big lead early. That’s one of the differences between them two as QBs. Mahomes don’t make those mistakes in the playoffs. KC got up on Balt early and Mahomes cruised control it to the end. Didn’t forced unnecessary throws and let the defense worked. 

 

In the beginning it looked like a Bills blowout and Allen's turnovers didn't help. If I remember correctly in the 2nd half the Dolphins were moving the ball successfully and the Bills hung on for the win.

[L Ron Burgundy]

Allen would already have 7 rings and the ufc light heavyweight belt.

[Buffalo716]

38 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There’s no proof that Mahomes needed the year off or would have failed if thrown into the fire. Josh Allen wasn’t perfect mechanically when he came into the league, and he was clearly coached and developed. They were both rough around the edges QB’s who were BOTH developed to become the QB’s they are today. 
 

Not sure why we believe the Bills coaches couldn’t have developed Mahomes when they proved they could develop Allen. 

I LOVE the Bills. Don’t think they have the greatest QB of all time. Sue me lol

Over a hundred years in the NFL there are always outliers

 

I never said mahomes is guaranteed to fail if he was thrown to the fire... I said there is not a quarterback alive who has never benefited from sitting behind a good quarterback

 

Even Tom Brady sat behind Drew bledsoe and it immensely helped his game

 

Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Brett favre immensely helped his game

 

Josh Allen would be better if he got to sit behind an entrenched starter for a season... 

 

You get to work on things that you could completely refine without getting thrown to the wolves... When you get thrown to the wolves it's sink or swim

 

Josh swam.. but he still has some little quirks as a quarterback that could have been ironed out if he got to sit behind somebody for a year... Under fire those quirks come out... But not getting thrown to the fire could have them corrected

 

I've been to elite 11 quarterback camps, under armor All-American games, and some of the best quarterback camps in the country over 20 years 

 

I understand how quarterbacks think and get developed..  and it takes a team

 

And the situation you are thrown into is a major factor... The bills might not have Andy Reid... But Allen had a plethora of knowledge around him

 

A calming head coach in McDermott... A personal quarterback coach in Palmer... David culley was a division 1 quarterback...Daboll has been around some of the best coaches in the world...Ken Dorsey was a division one quarterback(even if not a great OC)... Joe Brady help develop the passing game at LSU when Joe burrow broke every record

 

Allen, while getting thrown to the fire had a lot of people who could calm him and help him with the quarterback position... That's why he developed while getting thrown to the fire while most quarterbacks don't

 

But sitting would have still greatly benefited him 100%

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by Buffalo716

[ddaryl]

53 minutes ago, colin said:

 

i read this in a backhanded way, where the implication is that mcd can win after we fire him, long into the future.

 

i chortled.

You read it correctly and as intended

Maybe he can sooner than later but unitl we do all we have right now is gaffes and injury excuses

[first_and_ten]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

What if Peyton Manning and Tom Brady swapped?

 

Brady would still be the GOAT.

 

Mahomes is the GOAT.

 

In your scenario,  Buffalo would have more than one Super Bowl, is that what you're saying?

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

Reid didn't win a SB till he got to his 2nd head coaching job, and after 13 years HC experience in Philly


I'm confident McDermott can do that to.

He won the superbowl shortly after getting his first superstar qb.  So you kind of miss that the point of the discussion.  How many Super Bowls do you think McDermott wins with Baker Mayfield or Kirk Cousins as his QB ?