Do The Bills Have Enough "Elite" Talent?

[BillsFan130]

9 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

This is why Taron is a nickel corner. He is darn good but not elite. Top nickel corners tend to fit this mold. Our biggest problem right now at the CB 2 spot is Elam…this will be a make or break year for him. 

The good news is that Elam isn't CB2 sir.

 

Will be Douglas and Benford with most likely Elam as the 3rd

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They had 1 players in PFFs top 101 of 2023. They have nowhere near enough top end talent. They are a balanced deep roster but lack “elite” talent.

Yep this is exactly my opinion on the state of their team as well

[billsfan_34]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

The good news is that Elam isn't CB2 sir.

 

Will be Douglas and Benford with most likely Elam as the 3rd

OMG I had a huge brainfart lol 😂 thanks 😊 

[SCBills]

It was supposed to be 3 years of Allen, Diggs and Von. 
 

We’re now entering Year 3 of those 3 years. 
 

KC has had 4 at all times.  Mahomes, Kelce, Jones and Hill .. then after he left Snead elevated in a widely respected elite corner. 

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

OMG I had a huge brainfart lol 😂 thanks 😊 

Hahah no problem buddy!

[nedboy7]

Kincaid, Oliver and Bernard are coming close hopefully. 

[LABILLBACKER]

No.....just one dude who can't do it all.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

Kincaid, Oliver and Bernard are coming close hopefully. 

Yep. I think Oliver hit is ceiling which is fine as he's a very solid player.

 

Bernard and Kincaid def have the potential to be elite 

Edited March 11 by BillsFan130

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think mahomes and Kelce and Chris Jones are there pure game wreckers... Hall of Fame guys who can take over any game

 

It's hard to rank the Chiefs players in this discussion because in the realm of "elite" talent, Mahomes and Kelce and Jones are on an even higher level. But that doesn't mean Sneed, McDuffie, and a couple others on their team aren't elite players. They just aren't in the conversation for some of the greatest to ever do it.

 

This was always my argument when people would say "Mahomes has Kelce, Allen has Diggs" as if that is an equal share of talent. No one would mistake Diggs as arguably the greatest of all time at this position. Even at his best he was closer to that Sneed/McDuffie tier of elite talent. Allen has never had a teammate that could say they were in the same tier as him.

 

And that dichotomy between us and the Chiefs has only gotten worse. We didn't even have any players in that Sneed/McDuffie level by the end of this past season. It was Josh Allen sitting lonely in the highest tier, and then a big drop off from him to everyone else.

 

Kincaid I think has a good chance to reach that 2nd tier of elite players this year or next. Other than him I'm not confident saying anybody else on the roster is going to hit that level. Maybe Rousseau, he's still very young and has battled injuries the past two seasons. I'd like to say Oliver but I need to see him make a true game changing play in a playoff game before he can be part of the discussion.

[ToGoGo]

We have enough talent to win 50/50 games with the Chiefs. 
 

But to be that team that is a lock to get the #1 seed and crush the Chiefs, Ravens, and 49ers deep in the playoffs, we need more A players. 
 

We’re 1-2 All-Pros in the right position away from being a wrecking machine/potential dynasty.  

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Agreed. The days are gone for spending money on special teams and d line rotations. It a barbell of 5-7 exceptional players, not a lot of very good in the middle and then cheap raw talent at the bottom to balance the cap.

 

We tried to go th very good with a few difference makers and it hasn't worked.

 

 

 

I am no great defender of Beane.  But I doubt he disagrees with your barbell assessment.  The problem is the Bells all broke.  Going into 2023, we were supposed to have the elite safety tandem in the entire NFL, Von Miller and Matt Milano on Defense and Allen, Diggs, and Knox on offense. There is your 7.  Knox lost his brother, White didn't make it back and Hyde and Miller went down, and that was the end of having 7 elite players.  Its not particularly simple to restock 3 to 4 elite players every year. 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

You need great corners but they don't move the needle much on the spread and they really don't wreck the game

 

Sneed gave up 0 TDs all season long until Shakir's TD in the divisional round. He was definitely an elite game changing CB this past season. Although I suspect the team that inevitably trades for him will be disappointed, much as great Patriots players used to leave for a different team and see their level of play diminish. The Chiefs elite coaching staff shouldn't be discounted in this discussion. They have a way of getting players to their ceiling at an astonishing rate.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

They have a way of getting players to their ceiling at an astonishing rate.

Yes, but do they have a process?

[Governor]

2 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

No that's why I laugh at the "Bills were the best team in the league this year if not (X,Y,Z happened)" crowd

I’m with you on talent but shouldn’t these average players be a bit better with a lot less unforced errors if we truly had an elite coach? I think so.

 

I don’t think we need 7 elite players but 4-5 would be nice.

[aristocrat]

Milano jumps in next year next to Bernard. 

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sneed gave up 0 TDs all season long until Shakir's TD in the divisional round. He was definitely an elite game changing CB this past season. Although I suspect the team that inevitably trades for him will be disappointed, much as great Patriots players used to leave for a different team and see their level of play diminish. The Chiefs elite coaching staff shouldn't be discounted in this discussion. They have a way of getting players to their ceiling at an astonishing rate.

Even the original poster agreed with me that there is a difference between a game breaker and an elite player

 

Game breakers are your few and far between players who can single-handedly take over a game

 

Destroy an opponent's game plan by themself

 

The bills have had two All pro CBs in the last 10 years.. Stefan Gilmore is going to the Hall of Fame... Tre white went an entire season without giving up one touchdown

 

Both are some of my favorite players in the last 20 years

 

Neither are game breakers as cornerbacks do not wreck game plans... 

 

Because even the best cornerback in the world will get beat when the pass rush doesn't get home.. Jalen Ramsey is a three-time first team All pro and Stefan diggs makes him look like a bench warmer at times

 

It's because cornerbacks even the best get beat... The only game breaking cornerback I have ever seen was deion Sanders and darrelle revis... Somebody else in this thread got me to agree to champ Bailey

 

That's it.. we've had two All-Pro corners here and neither were game breakers

 

They might be elite NFL cornerbacks and they certainly can make plays... They do not in fact destroy game plans...

 

There's nothing you can do when a Josh Allen or Patrick mahomes or myles Garrett get into a zone... They can single-handedly destroy your team

 

No offense to those great cornerbacks but neither of them are dictating a game like that.. in fact as I said corners really can't because you can attack seven other people, and your dependent on the pass rush... Because even the best NFL CBs can't run for 6 seconds with a good NFL wide receiver

 

But Bruce Smith can single-handedly destroy an offense

Edited March 11 by Buffalo716

[Eastport bills]

The Bills are a team that have too many holes caused by going for it and missing,  like the Rams 3 seasons ago. They failed miserably with the Miller signing and their suspect cap management forced Beane to offload some productive but older players. They still have Josh, Cook, Kincaid,Diggs, Milano,and Oliver but the other winning type players are more like solid role players,far from elite. Beane must find a quality secondary and 2 big time receivers and an edge rusher in FA and the draft. If Diggs is not the receiver of previous years, as opposed to the 2nd half of last season, getting past KC, Cinn, Baltimore will be improbable. Getting to the playoffs is great but Josh deserves to be surrounded by a better roster. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I used the word game breaker which he used also...

 

To me a game breaker is somebody who can single-handedly wreck a game... Destroy the other teams game plan

 

Sneed singlehandedly stopped the Ravens comeback attempt in its tracks in the AFCCG. That is the definition of a game breaker. A game where the Chiefs offense scored ZERO points in the 2nd half and still won, I think you have to admit that their secondary was the primary reason they won that game.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sneed singlehandedly stopped the Ravens comeback attempt in its tracks in the AFCCG. That is the definition of a game breaker. A game where the Chiefs offense scored ZERO points in the 2nd half and still won, I think you have to admit that their secondary was the primary reason they won that game.

he made plays

 

That is completely different then wrecking somebody's game plan week in and out .. like Allen can do or Bruce Smith 

 

As I said Bruce Smith can destroy offensive lines all night and single-handedly dictate a game

 

Every single NFL cornerback is dependent on the pass rush... Even the best corners cannot run with good wide receivers for 5 seconds

 

They all get beat

 

So their corners success is also based on the front four

 

100% they work together

 

The best corners will not mask zero pass rush... That's why there are zero game breaking cornerbacks in the NFL

 

Sneed cannot run with top end NFL wide receivers for 5 seconds... Like all cornerbacks he is dependent on the front 4 getting home fairly quick

 

Even the elite cornerbacks cannot Chase NFL receivers across the field for 4 seconds

Edited March 11 by Buffalo716

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

he made plays

 

That is completely different then wrecking somebody's game plan week in and out .. like Allen can do or Bruce Smith 

 

As I said Bruce Smith can destroy offensive lines all night and single-handedly dictate a game

 

Every single NFL cornerback is dependent on the pass rush... Even the best corners cannot run with good wide receivers for 5 seconds

 

They all get beat

 

So their corners success is also based on the front four

 

100% they work together

 

The best corners will not mask zero pass rush

Now this is true. But it also goes both ways.

 

If your corners can't cover for 2 seconds, the pass rush doesn't matter unless the o line is blowing assignments left, right and centre.

 

It has to Be a marriage between the pass rush and coverage in order to have a great defence.

 

Chiefs had it all. Great pass rush, and great coverage which made them a top 3 defence all season long 

 

 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Now this is true. But it also goes both ways.

 

If your corners can't cover for 2 seconds, the pass rush doesn't matter unless the o line is blowing assignments left, right and centre.

 

It has to Be a marriage between the pass rush and coverage in order to have a great defence.

 

Chiefs had it all. Great pass rush, and great coverage which made them a top 3 defence all season long 

 

 

And that's why they're a tremendous defense

 

As I said you need all three levels...

 

But when I am talking about a game breaking player.. those are first ballad Hall of Fame type guys to me

 

Guys who do destroy games

 

Sneed is an excellent corner not debating that.. I just don't think he destroys games he needs help

 

Chris Jones has destroyed offensive lines by himself.. that's why I'll call him a game breaker.. I think he's a Hall of Fame type guy

Edited March 11 by Buffalo716