How are we feeling about Elam?

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Yes, he was cut the next day.

Gave up 280 yards of offense by himself....

 

That's more than a bad day

[Beck Water]

19 hours ago, julian said:

There was some issue between Elam and his position coach, I think the change at DB coach was partly due to that disconnect between coach and player.

 

 Listening to him speak today, you could tell he was trying not to say too much when being asked about the coaching change but did mention how his new position coach “treats me great” … “holding me to a standard, always critiquing me and Christian, but it’s like we’re human”. I’m guessing he wasn’t taking to the previous coaching style and it’s easier smarter and less costly to make a change at the position coach and try to salvage a massive 1st round investment.

 

What you say about confliction with the previous DB coach and Elam may be true, but I would just like to address the whole "DB position coaching change" thing.  I don't think it was driven by a desire to accommodate Elam or to "salvage a massive 1st round investment" 

 

The Bills had 4 position coaches last season who likely wanted to become defensive coordinators:

Al Holcomb (Senior Defensive Assistant) Age 54 - has had two previous tries at being a DC

Bobby Babich (LB coach) Age 40

John Butler (DB coach) Age 51

Eric Washington (Assistant HC/ DL coach) Age 54

 

January 27, Eric Washington accepted the position of DC for the Chicago Bears.  So Then There Were 3

January 30, Bobby Babich was promoted to DC for the Bills.  Rumor had it he had other teams interested in hiring him as DC.

February 2, Al Holcomb was appointed LB coach.  He may feel that's his best path to getting another shot at DC; he may prefer to be a position coach.

February 7, John Butler and the Bills "mutually agreed to part ways"

February 7, Jahmile Addae was hired from U Miami to be the new secondary coach for the Bills.

 

February 20, Tim Graham wrote an article for The Athletic about John Butler:
 

Quote

His career ambition is to be an NFL defensive coordinator, and those most familiar with his work insist he merits the opportunity. Butler was a Division III college defensive coordinator at 23 years old while working as a bouncer and gym teacher to pay the rent. His first full-time coaching gig was as a Division II defensive coordinator. By 40, he was Penn State’s defensive coordinator.

Three years later, after just his second season as an NFL assistant, Butler received a big-league coordinator interview.

That was in 2016, and it remains the only time an NFL team has inquired.

Quote

“Bobby’s going to do a great job,” Butler said from his offseason home at the Jersey Shore. “It really just came down to us both feeling we were qualified to do the job. We both still are. The decision doesn’t change anything.

“But once that decision is made, it’s time for me to see if I can be a coordinator somewhere else. I’m at my best when I’m in charge. I ran the secondary for six years, but there’s a ceiling there.”

Quote

“There’s a vision I have; there’s a vision they have,” Butler said. “When it doesn’t necessarily match, sometimes it’s best for both parties to see what else is out there.  They’re giving me that permission, and I give them permission to hire somebody to replace me.”

 

I don't think you need to "speed read" between the lines to see that Butler really wanted to be DC, and thought that at Age 51, he was more deserving of the shot than that young whippersnapper Babich.  Butler may have even said "promote me to DC or let me walk" The Bills said "Babich is Our Guy, Walk then" 

 

A number of players have spoken really really well of Babich - say that he has a lot of energy and enthusiasm and knowledge of the game and is a great teacher.

 

[Beck Water]

19 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

He was absolutely terrible in the Jax game in London - repeatedly spun around like a helpless top by Calvin Ridley in what was one of the worst single-game performances of a Bills CB I have ever seen. So it’s reasonable that the coaches had little faith in him. That said, he IS physically talented, and he seems bright enough. I am hoping for an Eric Moulds situation, where the light finally switches on in year three. But he has been a liability so far. Saying otherwise is whistling past the graveyard.

 

You know, other players have had terrible games, and yet the coaches have maintained faith.

 

For example, Bernard starting for Milano in 2022 against the Jets had a terrible, horrible, no good very bad day.  It looked like he was thinking all the time about what he should do and playing slow.  Based on that, I had no expectation for him as a possible MLB replacement for Edmunds in 2024, especially when he sat out a lot of the pre-season.

 

And Then...

 

[julian]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

What you say about confliction with the previous DB coach and Elam may be true, but I would just like to address the whole "DB position coaching change" thing.  I don't think it was driven by a desire to accommodate Elam or to "salvage a massive 1st round investment" 

 

The Bills had 4 position coaches last season who likely wanted to become defensive coordinators:

Al Holcomb (Senior Defensive Assistant) Age 54 - has had two previous tries at being a DC

Bobby Babich (LB coach) Age 40

John Butler (DB coach) Age 51

Eric Washington (Assistant HC/ DL coach) Age 54

 

January 27, Eric Washington accepted the position of DC for the Chicago Bears.  So Then There Were 3

January 30, Bobby Babich was promoted to DC for the Bills.  Rumor had it he had other teams interested in hiring him as DC.

February 2, Al Holcomb was appointed LB coach.  He may feel that's his best path to getting another shot at DC; he may prefer to be a position coach.

February 7, John Butler and the Bills "mutually agreed to part ways"

February 7, Jahmile Addae was hired from U Miami to be the new secondary coach for the Bills.

 

February 20, Tim Graham wrote an article for The Athletic about John Butler:
 

 

I don't think you need to "speed read" between the lines to see that Butler really wanted to be DC, and thought that at Age 51, he was more deserving of the shot than that young whippersnapper Babich.  Butler may have even said "promote me to DC or let me walk" The Bills said "Babich is Our Guy, Walk then" 

 

A number of players have spoken really really well of Babich - say that he has a lot of energy and enthusiasm and knowledge of the game and is a great teacher.

 

That all seems very reasonable and most likely was the driving force, I didn’t mean to make it sound like Elam only was the reasoning for replacing Butler.

 

 I’m sure the idea of Elam flourishing under a new position coach was a smaller side factor and not the driving force, but maybe a blessing in disguise was the thinking in the building.

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, julian said:

That all seems very reasonable and most likely was the driving force, I didn’t mean to make it sound like Elam only was the reasoning for replacing Butler.

 

 I’m sure the idea of Elam flourishing under a new position coach was a smaller side factor and not the driving force, but maybe a blessing in disguise was the thinking in the building.

 

I agree.  I think a similar sort of reasoning may have been at play with Bobby Johnson leaving to become the Giants OL coach.  I'm not sure the Bills would have moved on from Johnson if he wanted to stay, but when he asked to be released to move on to the Giants, the Bills went looking for someone they felt would do a better job developing young players.

 

I think similar here - I'm not sure the Bills would have moved on from Butler if he wanted to stay, but given he wasn't happy to be passed up for DC by a  young up-n-comer, they were happy to grant his release and go looking for someone they felt might be better able to develop the young players.

[Thrivefourfive]

He really disappointed last year. Whatever happened there. Now I’m just accepting the fact that he’s on the team, and I’m ignoring that he’s a first round pick. Just hoping for him to contribute like a real Bills employee. He’s got a really cool jersey # too.
 

[mjt328]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:37 AM, All_Pro_Bills said:

What is still unexplained is if Elam doesn't fit McDermott's "scheme" then why did the team make a deal to swap first rounders and give up another pick to move up a couple spots to draft a CB that didn't fit was a square peg, round hole case?  Did they not do the scouting, workouts, and interviews with Elam to understand any of this circumstance?  Was there some disconnect between the GM and the HC?  Did they just severely miscalculate how hard it would be for Elam to make the transition in his game to play under the Bills D scheme? 

 

Kaiir Elam played almost entirely Man Coverage in college.  The Bills lean much heavier into Zone.

This never meant that Elam couldn't fit into McDermott's scheme.  Just that it was going to take some time for him to learn and adjust.  If you go back to the 2022 offseason, almost everyone expected there to be some bumps along the road in his development.  The idea is that over the course of 1-2 years of learning, his elite skills would eventually turn him into a better player than Dane Jackson and Levi Wallace were for us.

 

What nobody expected is that 6th Rounder Christian Benford (despite having a much lower athletic upside) would turn out WAY better than his draft profile.  And since his college experience was already in Zone, his development curve was also way less.  By the time Week 1 rolled around, he was more ready to play.  Plain and simple.  So he got the starting nod, regardless of being a lower draft pick.  And to be honest, there just hasn't been a reason to take that spot away from him.  Benford has played very well.

 

Now Elam did get into the starting lineup Week 3 of his rookie year.  He started six weeks in a row, looked decent most of the time, and then got hurt.  Then of course Tre White finally came back from his ACL injury, and was given one of the starting Cornerback positions.  So in a hugely important year for his development, Elam was on the bench for roughly 60-70% of the time.  Last year, he was suffering from a foot injury (which the Bills never disclosed until putting him on IR).  All the fans saw was him being inactive week after week and started making assumptions that something was wrong with his play.  In all, he only played two games before they shut him down for the rest of the season.

 

 

When it comes to 1st Round Picks, fans expect immediate impact and results.  Elam was always going to be a slower developing player than Bills fans wanted to see.  But it's also hard for a guy to develop when he's injured and sitting the bench.  We've seen some nice flashes.  We've seen some ugly struggles.  It's just been a weird set of circumstances, constantly keeping him off the field and making it impossible to get a good judgment.  Even now in Year 3, he's sitting behind Benford and Rasul Douglas.  And regardless of how well Elam plays, I can't see him replacing either of those guys.

 

 

 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

8 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Kaiir Elam played almost entirely Man Coverage in college.  The Bills lean much heavier into Zone.

This never meant that Elam couldn't fit into McDermott's scheme.  Just that it was going to take some time for him to learn and adjust.  If you go back to the 2022 offseason, almost everyone expected there to be some bumps along the road in his development.  The idea is that over the course of 1-2 years of learning, his elite skills would eventually turn him into a better player than Dane Jackson and Levi Wallace were for us.

 

What nobody expected is that 6th Rounder Christian Benford (despite having a much lower athletic upside) would turn out WAY better than his draft profile.  And since his college experience was already in Zone, his development curve was also way less.  By the time Week 1 rolled around, he was more ready to play.  Plain and simple.  So he got the starting nod, regardless of being a lower draft pick.  And to be honest, there just hasn't been a reason to take that spot away from him.  Benford has played very well.

 

...

 

I never played beyond the HS level so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.  But it seems to me that you have to be athletically gifted to be good at press/man coverage which Elam is. 

 

Playing zone requires less athleticism.  You do need some quickness as one guy leaves your zone and another enters it - or as you read the play differently as it develops.  And you do need smarts to understand what's going on around you.  Elam seems to possess both adequate quickness and smarts.  So it's puzzling to me why he still struggles.  It seems like he's had more than enough time to figure out how to play effectively in McD's defense.  Intellectually, it's not that hard.  

 

While Butler was a talented DB coach, maybe having a new position coach will be good for Elam.  I hope so because (1) he seems like a good, hard-working kid, and (2) we could use another quality CB.