How are we feeling about Elam?

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

My gut says traded. 

I just wrote something about this generally, and gave Elam as an example.   I think it's important to keep young talent a year too long, rather than cut young talent a year too early.  Young often talent needs time to grow into the league, and it's worth it to give young talent extra time to see what that growth looks like.  Everyone uses Wyatt Teller as the example.  

 

Elam was injured last year, which hampered his growth.  He also, clearly, has had trouble being effective and consistent in McDermott's scheme.  He's young - turns 23 this year.  I'd much rather invest another year in him than see him starting for five years (which he has the potential to do) for some other team. 

[JerseyBills]

Benford and obviously Douglas are ahead of him but he's a very solid backup

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, nosejob said:

You may end up being right, but I think we'll see a similar story like the Bernard thing last year.

 

 

I hope you are right and a light just suddenly comes on. I don't see it though. 

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just wrote something about this generally, and gave Elam as an example.   I think it's important to keep young talent a year too long, rather than cut young talent a year too early.  Young often talent needs time to grow into the league, and it's worth it to give young talent extra time to see what that growth looks like.  Everyone uses Wyatt Teller as the example.  

 

Elam was injured last year, which hampered his growth.  He also, clearly, has had trouble being effective and consistent in McDermott's scheme.  He's young - turns 23 this year.  I'd much rather invest another year in him than see him starting for five years (which he has the potential to do) for some other team. 

 

But he might never have the potential to start for five years for this team in this defense. I think he is more like Jerry Hughes than Wyatt Teller. Hughes could have stayed in Indianapolis for 5 years longer and not broken out the way he did for the Bills because his skillset wasn't fitting what he was being asked to do. 

[babulator]

He'll be CB3 or CB4 until his rookie deal runs out, or (not likely) someone offers something for him (also not likely to get fair value). After that, he wont get 5th yr optioned or tagged and will move on somewhere else.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Kaenon said:

Curious to hear your thoughts on this upcoming season for Elam and expectations.

 

Do you think he's starting?

Is he traded?

Or is he CB3 behind Douglas and Benford?

 

I think he sucks. He can make splash plays due to his speed & athleticism, but he is way too inconsistent in coverage. Good depth player. He was not worth the 1st pick though. I think Buffalo will take a flyer on a CB with the extra 5th rounder. 

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I hope you are right and a light just suddenly comes on. I don't see it though. 

 

But he might never have the potential to start for five years for this team in this defense. I think he is more like Jerry Hughes than Wyatt Teller. Hughes could have stayed in Indianapolis for 5 years longer and not broken out the way he did for the Bills because his skillset wasn't fitting what he was being asked to do. 

Yes, that all may be true, but he also could be Jordan Poyer, who had 10 starts in four seasons in Cleveland, or Micah Hyde, who was only a part-time starter in Green Bay.  Not saying he's a safety - just saying that top talent doesn't always develop into top players in the their first three or four years.  Yes, change of scenery helps some, scheme is a factor.   But at least with scheme, they thought he could be a scheme fit when they drafted him, and he knows that scheme fit is critical to making it in Buffalo.  

 

Maybe you're right, and the Bills already have given up on him and are just waiting for the right opportunity to unload him.  I think he's cheap and talented.   Aren't likely to get a better backup at that price.  

 

Bills will get a rookie corner or two in the draft and and free agency, and if one of them can take the backup job from Elam, so be it.  Otherwise, I think the Bills will be happy to have him.  At least, that would be my take. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, that all may be true, but he also could be Jordan Poyer, who had 10 starts in four seasons in Cleveland, or Micah Hyde, who was only a part-time starter in Green Bay.  Not saying he's a safety - just saying that top talent doesn't always develop into top players in the their first three or four years.  Yes, change of scenery helps some, scheme is a factor.   But at least with scheme, they thought he could be a scheme fit when they drafted him, and he knows that scheme fit is critical to making it in Buffalo.  

 

Poyer's issue was lack of opportunity (and then when he did get it his last year in Cleveland injury struck). Hyde's issue in Green Bay was his versatility hurt him. Wherever a guy went down they'd move Hyde there so he never got to shine in a single spot - but he was always an excellent player and I said so the day he was signed here. 

 

I just think it is so obviously a schematic thing with Elam that he isn't in the same conversation as those other guys. And even more than that it is transitions. The mechanical awkwardness moving from vertical to lateral and moving from backpedal to close and vice versa. It makes being a good zone defender really hard. If that was an easy fix I think it would have happened by now. 

[GETTOTHE50]

You gotta let him play and live with whatever the results are. To be drafted and hardly see the field is more of an indictment on the bills than him. 

[BaaadThingsMan]

New coaches. I'm optimistic.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Starter. 

[Logic]

57 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I just wrote something about this generally, and gave Elam as an example.   I think it's important to keep young talent a year too long, rather than cut young talent a year too early.  Young often talent needs time to grow into the league, and it's worth it to give young talent extra time to see what that growth looks like.  Everyone uses Wyatt Teller as the example.  

 

Elam was injured last year, which hampered his growth.  He also, clearly, has had trouble being effective and consistent in McDermott's scheme.  He's young - turns 23 this year.  I'd much rather invest another year in him than see him starting for five years (which he has the potential to do) for some other team. 

Agreed, especially since the return you're likely to get for him is a 6th or 7th rounder.

At that rate of return, a guy like Elam is worth more to you than the compensation you'd receive in return.

For the record -- and this is probably just the eternal optimist in me -- I'm bullish on Elam this year. I think he knows it's "do or die" for his career as a starter in this league, and if healthy, I think he's gonna make a run for playing time in this defense.

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Poyer's issue was lack of opportunity (and then when he did get it his last year in Cleveland injury struck). Hyde's issue in Green Bay was his versatility hurt him. Wherever a guy went down they'd move Hyde there so he never got to shine in a single spot - but he was always an excellent player and I said so the day he was signed here. 

 

I just think it is so obviously a schematic thing with Elam that he isn't in the same conversation as those other guys. And even more than that it is transitions. The mechanical awkwardness moving from vertical to lateral and moving from backpedal to close and vice versa. It makes being a good zone defender really hard. If that was an easy fix I think it would have happened by now. 

That's interesting.  You know way more about the technical stuff than I.  If the Bills are going to move on from him, I'd think the earliest that would happen would be late camp/preseason, when they know they have their CB depth covered with some other young player(s).  

 

I'm still hoping you're young, as you are, too. 

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's interesting.  You know way more about the technical stuff than I.  If the Bills are going to move on from him, I'd think the earliest that would happen would be late camp/preseason, when they know they have their CB depth covered with some other young player(s).  

 

I'm still hoping you're young, as you are, too. 

 

I agree that is the earliest it will happen. And yes, I'd love to be wrong. But it is wish rather than hope that I'd be young haha.

[dickleyjones]

i like his knack for making big plays. that's hard to teach.

 

if he could just be halfway decent the rest of the time he'd be pretty good, that can be taught.

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

My gut says traded. 

 

go take some probiotics and come back with a different answer

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree that is the earliest it will happen. And yes, I'd love to be wrong. But it is wish rather than hope that I'd be young haha.

Seems like you were right about Miller.  I need to stop doubting you!

[julian]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Poyer's issue was lack of opportunity (and then when he did get it his last year in Cleveland injury struck). Hyde's issue in Green Bay was his versatility hurt him. Wherever a guy went down they'd move Hyde there so he never got to shine in a single spot - but he was always an excellent player and I said so the day he was signed here. 

 

I just think it is so obviously a schematic thing with Elam that he isn't in the same conversation as those other guys. And even more than that it is transitions. The mechanical awkwardness moving from vertical to lateral and moving from backpedal to close and vice versa. It makes being a good zone defender really hard. If that was an easy fix I think it would have happened by now. 

That’s plenty of guesswork, nobody will know until he gets extended playing time, with this organization or another. 
 

I’ll take a guess as well, Elam wasn’t a scheme fit as you suggested, the Bills coaches believed he could be coached up but unfortunately he struggled with the transition while at the same time Benford fit like a glove.

 

 These circumstances caused Elam to become frustrated and butt heads with his position coach thus stunting his development.

 

A guess is a guess.

[Don Otreply]

I’ve got a peaceful easy feeling…, 

[JMM]

Absolute do or die year for him. If he doesn't show significant improvement he's done as a Bill. They will move on in some form or fashion from him. 

[BigAl2526]

He hasn't done enough on the field to warrant any optimism, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes: how much of a handicap his injury was last season, how he handles himself in team meetings and in practice.  If you go by what we've seen on the field, he's already gone.  I'm not ready to say though.