After yesterday who is your WR pick at 28?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

There may never be another Tyreek

 

48 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

At approximately the same height Tyreek has 25 lbs on this guy.

To you both, I’ll concede the Tyreek comparison may be too much (although with his speed and ability to stop we’ll see), but I think he is at about Flowers level coming in last year. Maybe a little better. 

[Richard Noggin]

13 hours ago, bills6969 said:

 I’m in favor of either 1) trading back to the early 2nd or 2) drafting another position of need at 28 and trading up in the 2nd to grab one of the WRs

 

this WR class is so stacked, I think Franklin, Lagette, Walker, Coleman will all be there in the early 2nd. 

 

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm willing to trade up a couple spots to get Thomas or Mitchell.  Those 2 will be good NFL caliber wrs. I'm also convinced once wrs start coming off the board, the run on wrs will begin. There's just too much talent. I'm a little skeptical of Worthy not running drills but I think a team between 11-20 will grab him to begin the full run. Legette or McConkey would be acceptable at 28 if we don't move up.

 

7 hours ago, mrags said:

 

That’s where I’m at. Have higher expectations on Legette after this weekend. Mitchell. And Dez Walker who I expected would test through the roof this weekend. Looks like he’ll be a late 2nd to early 3rd round guy now. Maybe even higher if what some people expect actually happens and there’s a historical run on WRs in the first round with more than 6 coming off the board. 

 

 

At some point in the 2nd half of round one or the first half of round two, there will be a historic-ish run on WRs that results in 10+ guys drafted in the first 40-50 picks. Teams would be silly NOT to get in on the WR depth during the first two days of the draft. (You have to admit, the receivers overall looked even better than advertised at the combine. Such a position of strength, despite coming in so many different sizes and shapes.) 

Edited March 4 by Richard Noggin

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

To you both, I’ll concede the Tyreek comparison may be too much (although with his speed and ability to stop we’ll see), but I think he is at about Flowers level coming in last year. Maybe a little better. 

Solid comp.  I thought flowers was slightly better but I’m pulling hairs there. While Worthy isn’t ideal for me as I’m just not a fan of 165lb ball carriers, he’s electric and I’d look forward to him playing with 17.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Solid comp.  I thought flowers was slightly better but I’m pulling hairs there. While Worthy isn’t ideal for me as I’m just not a fan of 165lb ball carriers, he’s electric and I’d look forward to him playing with 17.  

I get the size worries but he seems to play bigger than his size, keeps good balance, and does not shy away from contact 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You're placing too little. In Round 1, good measurements and showing out as an athletic specimen are integral to what Beane considers in Round 1. He always goes for traits and tools that fit the role he's looking for in Round 1. Even if they're looked at as needing a little development.

You are downgrading Troy Franklin that’s how I know that you’re placing too much emphasis on it
 

Guys that were first round picks do not all of a sudden not become first round picks because of the underwear Olympics

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

 

At some point in the 2nd half of round one or the first half of round two, there will be a historic-ish run on WRs that results in 10+ guys drafted in the first 40-50 picks. Teams would be silly NOT to get in on the WR depth during the first two days of the draft. (You have to admit, the receivers overall looked even better than advertised at the combine. Such a position of strength, despite coming in so many different sizes and shapes.) 

I do wonder, depending on who is still on the board if the bills are not formulating a plan to take a defensive lineman in round one and then trade up and round two for a wide receiver
 

Once again, not saying, this is what I would do but

[BillsFanForever19]

32 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You are downgrading Troy Franklin that’s how I know that you’re placing too much emphasis on it
 

Guys that were first round picks do not all of a sudden not become first round picks because of the underwear Olympics

 

First off, he was not a consensus 1st Round Pick anywhere but on this board.

 

Many prognosticators listed him as a 2nd Round guy. Mel Kiper for example didn't even have him in his Top 10 WR's in his last ranking.

 

Those that did have him rated high had him there because he had "elite" speed around 4.30 or less and was 6'3". And although he had a small frame, he was still 193 lbs.

 

In all actuality, he is not 6'3". He's 6'1". He's not 193, he's 175. And the 4.3 or less guy was actually a 4.41 guy, ranking 10th amongst WRs and slower than guys he was expected to be faster than. Including a 1.61 10 yard split, ranking DEAD LAST amongst all WR's. Worrisome when one of his concerns already was creating separation at the line.

 

You might not think that's a big deal, but it IS a big deal. That's something that drops you. Or in this case, confirms he's much closer to the 2nd Round Pick that many had him as then the 1st Rounder everyone around here did.

 

Especially when you combine those numbers not matching expectations with a poor on field performance. One that had Daniel Jeremiah calling him out on Television.

 

The "Underwear Olympics", as you put it, raises and drops players every single year. If it didn't matter at all, they wouldn't do it. Measurements matter greatly on stock. Especially when they don't match what you're listed and expected to be. Doubly so when you underperform in drills.

Edited March 4 by BillsFanForever19

[John from Riverside]

36 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

First off, he was not a consensus 1st Round Pick anywhere but on this board.

 

Many prognosticators listed him as a 2nd Round guy. Mel Kiper for example didn't even have him in his Top 10 WR's in his last ranking.

 

Those that did have him rated high had him there because he had "elite" speed around 4.30 or less and was 6'3". And although he had a small frame, he was still 193 lbs.

 

In all actuality, he is not 6'3". He's 6'1". He's not 193, he's 175. And the 4.3 or less guy was actually a 4.41 guy, ranking 10th amongst WRs and slower than guys he was expected to be faster than. Including a 1.61 10 yard split, ranking DEAD LAST amongst all WR's. Worrisome when one of his concerns already was creating separation at the line.

 

You might not think that's a big deal, but it IS a big deal. That's something that drops you. Or in this case, confirms he's much closer to the 2nd Round Pick that many had him as then the 1st Rounder everyone around here did.

 

Especially when you combine those numbers not matching expectations with a poor on field performance. One that had Daniel Jeremiah calling him out on Television.

 

The "Underwear Olympics", as you put it, raises and drops players every single year. If it didn't matter at all, they wouldn't do it. Measurements matter greatly on stock. Especially when they don't match what you're listed and expected to be. Doubly so when you underperform in drills.

You don’t follow mock drafts?

 

He was literally a first round, pick and almost every single one

 

I’m starting to wonder whether you’re serious or whether you just ***** with me because nobody is this stupid

 

friendly bet Troy Franklin goes in the first round this year maybe not to us, but he will go

Edited March 4 by John from Riverside

[BillsFanForever19]

40 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You don’t follow mock drafts?

 

He was literally a first round, pick and almost every single one

 

I’m starting to wonder whether you’re serious or whether you just ***** with me because nobody is this stupid

 

friendly bet Troy Franklin goes in the first round this year maybe not to us, but he will go

 

Let's try a little exercise shall we? Here's the first 6 recommended when I Google "Mock Draft":

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2024/03/04/nfl-mock-draft-2024-quarterbacks-first-round-jj-mccarthy/72835611007/

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-mock-draft-combine-1st-round-xavier-worthy-jj-mccarthy-rome-odunze

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-two-round-mock-draft-j-j-mccarthy-lands-in-top-15-michael-penix-jr-bo-nix-taken-in-round-2/

 

https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/2024/03/03/nfl-mock-draft-2024-post-nfl-combine

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tony-catalina-2024-nfl-mock-draft-march-3/

 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2024.php

 

Notice a pattern? Not a single one has Troy Franklin in Round 1. 

 

As for Pre-Combine - it was less than "almost every single one". As I said, Mel Kiper didn't. Off the top of my head, Bucky Brooks didn't. There were a number of others that didn't as we'd celebrate Brian Thomas Jr. being mocked to us as the 4th WR off the board at 28 on multiple occasions.

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Let's try a little exercise shall we? Here's the first 6 recommended when I Google "Mock Draft":

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2024/03/04/nfl-mock-draft-2024-quarterbacks-first-round-jj-mccarthy/72835611007/

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-mock-draft-combine-1st-round-xavier-worthy-jj-mccarthy-rome-odunze

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2024-nfl-two-round-mock-draft-j-j-mccarthy-lands-in-top-15-michael-penix-jr-bo-nix-taken-in-round-2/

 

https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/2024/03/03/nfl-mock-draft-2024-post-nfl-combine

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tony-catalina-2024-nfl-mock-draft-march-3/

 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2024.php

 

Notice a pattern? Not a single one has Troy Franklin in Round 1. 

 

As for Pre-Combine - it was less than "almost every single one". As I said, Mel Kiper didn't. Off the top of my head, Bucky Brooks didn't. There were a number of others that didn't as we'd celebrate Brian Thomas Jr. being mocked to us as the 4th WR off the board at 28 on multiple occasions.

Friendly bet
 

He is a first round wide receiver. If I’m wrong I’ll come on here tell everybody that you were right if he get selected in the first round you do it.

Edited March 4 by John from Riverside

[BillsFanForever19]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Friendly bet
 

He is a first round wide receiver. If I’m wrong I’ll come on here tell everybody that you were right if he get selected in the first round you do it.

 

Sure, why not?

 

I personally don't see it unless there's 9 or 10 WR's going in Round 1.

Edited March 4 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Assuming the top 3 are completely out of reach and the rest are fair game (though I would be very surprised if Thomas made it to 28), my rankings starting at 4 are:

1. Brian Thomas Jr.
2. Keon Coleman
3. Troy Franklin
4. Jacob Cowing
5. Ladd McConkey
6. Ricky Pearsall
7. Roman Wilson
8. Ja'Lynn Polk
9. Adonai Mitchell
10. Brenden Rice

I would love to have Thomas at 28. After him, I'm honestly a little unsure now. Franklin had a pretty bad Combine; I still like the film and metrics enough that I'd probably take him but I'm not as confident in it as I was before yesterday. Coleman had a good Combine altogether, but the 40 time on top of the lack of separation on film is a very major red flag, so similar to Franklin, I'm not as confident about taking him as 28 as I was previously. Cowing, McConkey, Pearsall, etc. would be reaches/aren't really what I'm looking for for the Bills at 28, but I like them as prospects. Pearsall's Combine performance was pretty eye opening; similar to Mitchell I didn't really see the great athleticism that Pearsall showed yesterday.

 

I've made a couple of tweaks to my board based on the Combine. I think a lot of what I saw there was confirming things I'd already priced in so have left it unaffected but the things I've changed are:

 

- bumped Ladd McConkey up two points. He was just more explosive than I expected. You something get that with guys like him who are such smooth movers that you underestimate the explosiveness. He had a good week, moved him up two points on my grading chart;

- bumped Xavier Worthy up one point. I knew he was going to run fast but fastest ever, that deserves recognition, up one;

- bumped Troy Franklin down three. Isn't just an over reaction to the "underwear olympics" the problem for Franklin is all the things that were in the negatives column when I watched his film were exacerbated by what showed up both in the measurements and the drills and the things that were in the positives column were slightly undermined. I think I was guilty of seeing how he could be used in the Bills offense and thinking with red, white and blue specs on when originally grading him because I wanted him to be a potential weapon for us. I feel worse about every benefit of every doubt I gave him on the film post this weekend.

- Keon Coleman down one. I thought he'd run high 4.4s, maybe low 4.5s and I'd have been fine with that because I don't think speed was ever going to be his calling card. 4.64 doesn't totally rule him out of being a good NFL player but I wonder how effective he is really going to be as a deep threat outside at that speed. The lack of separation is explainable by that run. I wonder now if his best fit in the NFL is as a Big Slot. 

 

I left Adonai Mitchell unchanged. I need to go back to the tape on him because I was baffled by the testing. Does not show up on tape. So doing the same thought exercise as @DCOrange above and ignoring the top three that leaves me with a wide receiver board of:

 

1. Xavier Legette (1st)

2. Brian Thomas (1st/2nd)

3. Adonai Mitchell (2nd)

4. Ladd McConkey (2nd)

5. Xavier Worthy (2nd)

6. Troy Franklin (2nd)

7. Keon Coleman (2nd)

8. Roman Wilson (2nd/3rd)

9. Javon Baker (3rd)

10. Jermaine Burton (3rd)

[machine gun kelly]

Brian Thomas even  ok f we need to move up a few slots to get him.

[John from Riverside]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've made a couple of tweaks to my board based on the Combine. I think a lot of what I saw there was confirming things I'd already priced in so have left it unaffected but the things I've changed are:

 

- bumped Ladd McConkey up two points. He was just more explosive than I expected. You something get that with guys like him who are such smooth movers that you underestimate the explosiveness. He had a good week, moved him up two points on my grading chart;

- bumped Xavier Worthy up one point. I knew he was going to run fast but fastest ever, that deserves recognition, up one;

- bumped Troy Franklin down three. Isn't just an over reaction to the "underwear olympics" the problem for Franklin is all the things that were in the negatives column when I watched his film were exacerbated by what showed up both in the measurements and the drills and the things that were in the positives column were slightly undermined. I think I was guilty of seeing how he could be used in the Bills offense and thinking with red, white and blue specs on when originally grading him because I wanted him to be a potential weapon for us. I feel worse about every benefit of every doubt I gave him on the film post this weekend.

- Keon Coleman down one. I thought he'd run high 4.4s, maybe low 4.5s and I'd have been fine with that because I don't think speed was ever going to be his calling card. 4.64 doesn't totally rule him out of being a good NFL player but I wonder how effective he is really going to be as a deep threat outside at that speed. The lack of separation is explainable by that run. I wonder now if his best fit in the NFL is as a Big Slot. 

 

I left Adonai Mitchell unchanged. I need to go back to the tape on him because I was baffled by the testing. Does not show up on tape. So doing the same thought exercise as @DCOrange above and ignoring the top three that leaves me with a wide receiver board of:

 

1. Xavier Legette (1st)

2. Brian Thomas (1st/2nd)

3. Adonai Mitchell (2nd)

4. Ladd McConkey (2nd)

5. Xavier Worthy (2nd)

6. Troy Franklin (2nd)

7. Keon Coleman (2nd)

8. Roman Wilson (2nd/3rd)

9. Javon Baker (3rd)

10. Jermaine Burton (3rd)

I feel differently on Troy Franklin, but I would be perfectly happy with Legette
I just feel like Leggette has so much untapped potential still

[Pete]

The Bills are going to trade up.  Everyone knows Buffalo needs WRs.  Teams are going to trade ahead of Bills and draft a WR.  We did it to Dallas with Dalton.  KC did it to us, when we drafted Elam.

 

There is a consensus top 3.

 

Mitchell has elite skills, and is the players Bills covet IMO.

If Mitchell makes it to 20(someone please overdraft Worthy), the Bills trade up and get their #1 WR- that’s my prediction 

[BillsFanForever19]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've made a couple of tweaks to my board based on the Combine. I think a lot of what I saw there was confirming things I'd already priced in so have left it unaffected but the things I've changed are:

 

- bumped Ladd McConkey up two points. He was just more explosive than I expected. You something get that with guys like him who are such smooth movers that you underestimate the explosiveness. He had a good week, moved him up two points on my grading chart;

- bumped Xavier Worthy up one point. I knew he was going to run fast but fastest ever, that deserves recognition, up one;

- bumped Troy Franklin down three. Isn't just an over reaction to the "underwear olympics" the problem for Franklin is all the things that were in the negatives column when I watched his film were exacerbated by what showed up both in the measurements and the drills and the things that were in the positives column were slightly undermined. I think I was guilty of seeing how he could be used in the Bills offense and thinking with red, white and blue specs on when originally grading him because I wanted him to be a potential weapon for us. I feel worse about every benefit of every doubt I gave him on the film post this weekend.

- Keon Coleman down one. I thought he'd run high 4.4s, maybe low 4.5s and I'd have been fine with that because I don't think speed was ever going to be his calling card. 4.64 doesn't totally rule him out of being a good NFL player but I wonder how effective he is really going to be as a deep threat outside at that speed. The lack of separation is explainable by that run. I wonder now if his best fit in the NFL is as a Big Slot. 

 

I left Adonai Mitchell unchanged. I need to go back to the tape on him because I was baffled by the testing. Does not show up on tape. So doing the same thought exercise as @DCOrange above and ignoring the top three that leaves me with a wide receiver board of:

 

1. Xavier Legette (1st)

2. Brian Thomas (1st/2nd)

3. Adonai Mitchell (2nd)

4. Ladd McConkey (2nd)

5. Xavier Worthy (2nd)

6. Troy Franklin (2nd)

7. Keon Coleman (2nd)

8. Roman Wilson (2nd/3rd)

9. Javon Baker (3rd)

10. Jermaine Burton (3rd)

 

I thought I had Legette ranked high as WR5 or WR6. WR4 above Brian Thomas? Wow!

 

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I feel differently on Troy Franklin, but I would be perfectly happy with Legette
I just feel like Leggette has so much untapped potential still

 

Wait a second, I thought Xavier Legette was a "2nd Round guy"?

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I thought I had Legette ranked high as WR5 or WR6. WR4 above Brian Thomas? Wow!

 

 

Wait a second, I thought Xavier Legette was a "2nd Round guy"?

 

Yea I like Legette a lot. I think he can do everything Thomas can down the field and has more versatility to be used in other ways. I do think he will probably go day 2 because I think the one year production and the age thing will count against him. If he was 21 and had put up say 650 yards in 2022 and then had the season he had in 2023 people would look at some of the rawness that is still there on the film as untapped potential. But when you are 23, played 5 years of college football and only broke out your final year then they look at it as being tapped out. I get it, I understand the thinking. But I can't help loving his film. There is a bit of work to do on his feet at the line and the release package but that is absolutely something NFL coaching can refine. I'd happily take him at #28. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I thought I had Legette ranked high as WR5 or WR6. WR4 above Brian Thomas? Wow!

 

 

Wait a second, I thought Xavier Legette was a "2nd Round guy"?

That is probably where he’s going to get taken There’s a difference between what round they go in and what I feel they should go in

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

If he drops that far, Brian Thomas in a heartbeat. After that...I am making some calls to the teams at the top of the 2nd. Because it's looking like a glut with Franklin, McConkey, Worthy, and Adonai Mitchell. While I had had by doubts about McConkey, he was bigger, faster and stronger than Franklin even if I like Franklin's film better (from my very limited watching).

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I've made a couple of tweaks to my board based on the Combine. I think a lot of what I saw there was confirming things I'd already priced in so have left it unaffected but the things I've changed are:

 

- bumped Ladd McConkey up two points. He was just more explosive than I expected. You something get that with guys like him who are such smooth movers that you underestimate the explosiveness. He had a good week, moved him up two points on my grading chart;

- bumped Xavier Worthy up one point. I knew he was going to run fast but fastest ever, that deserves recognition, up one;

- bumped Troy Franklin down three. Isn't just an over reaction to the "underwear olympics" the problem for Franklin is all the things that were in the negatives column when I watched his film were exacerbated by what showed up both in the measurements and the drills and the things that were in the positives column were slightly undermined. I think I was guilty of seeing how he could be used in the Bills offense and thinking with red, white and blue specs on when originally grading him because I wanted him to be a potential weapon for us. I feel worse about every benefit of every doubt I gave him on the film post this weekend.

- Keon Coleman down one. I thought he'd run high 4.4s, maybe low 4.5s and I'd have been fine with that because I don't think speed was ever going to be his calling card. 4.64 doesn't totally rule him out of being a good NFL player but I wonder how effective he is really going to be as a deep threat outside at that speed. The lack of separation is explainable by that run. I wonder now if his best fit in the NFL is as a Big Slot. 

 

I left Adonai Mitchell unchanged. I need to go back to the tape on him because I was baffled by the testing. Does not show up on tape. So doing the same thought exercise as @DCOrange above and ignoring the top three that leaves me with a wide receiver board of:

 

1. Xavier Legette (1st)

2. Brian Thomas (1st/2nd)

3. Adonai Mitchell (2nd)

4. Ladd McConkey (2nd)

5. Xavier Worthy (2nd)

6. Troy Franklin (2nd)

7. Keon Coleman (2nd)

8. Roman Wilson (2nd/3rd)

9. Javon Baker (3rd)

10. Jermaine Burton (3rd)

Thanks Gunner

So based on your reshuffling and so much other chatter, are the Bills taking a WR in the 1st? Seems like you believe that the value is suspect, and the smarter move is to take a DL and then slide back up in the 2nd for a WR. 

[mrags]

8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

 

At some point in the 2nd half of round one or the first half of round two, there will be a historic-ish run on WRs that results in 10+ guys drafted in the first 40-50 picks. Teams would be silly NOT to get in on the WR depth during the first two days of the draft. (You have to admit, the receivers overall looked even better than advertised at the combine. Such a position of strength, despite coming in so many different sizes and shapes.) 

Agree. I however disagree that 6 will be taken before we do at 28