2024 DL Class Discussion

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I just don’t know if he is good enough at DE or DT to justify where Bills would likely need to pick him.  If he was available at 60 and you want a big strong run stopping, power rushing DE, OK, but I think he could have trouble with bull rushing NFL OTs and he doesn’t have the speed, quickness or flexibility to be much of a speed rusher.  At DT, he is pretty undersized.

 

I love the stories about his work ethic, but I would not spend pick 28 on him or trade up from 60 for him.

 

Yep. Agree totally with this. He did, at the Senior Bowl, show more explosion than you saw on tape but then his run at the Combine was disappointing. I think he is exactly as you say in a 4-3 - just a bigger end who plays the run and bull rushes. To me his best fit is as a 5 tech in a 3-4 but I think someone will convince themselves that he can be a speed rusher outside, particularly from a two point stance as an 3-4 outside backer. I hope that someone isn't the Bills. 

[CNYfan]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Agree totally with this. He did, at the Senior Bowl, show more explosion than you saw on tape but then his run at the Combine was disappointing. I think he is exactly as you say in a 4-3 - just a bigger end who plays the run and bull rushes. To me his best fit is as a 5 tech in a 3-4 but I think someone will convince themselves that he can be a speed rusher outside, particularly from a two point stance as an 3-4 outside backer. I hope that someone isn't the Bills. 

I guess this is in reference to Darius Robinson of Michigan.  

To me if Penn State or UCLA are on the Board that is the way to go in Rd 1.  

[boyst]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Sweat is a guy who left it all on the field in Texas, pure stud 1 tech.  I really want a DE who can be a stud and be that 10+ per year sack guy.

left it all on the field but left nothing at the buffet table.

Edited March 1 by boyst

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

I guess this is in reference to Darius Robinson of Michigan.  

To me if Penn State or UCLA are on the Board that is the way to go in Rd 1.  

 

From Michigan but played his college ball at Missouri, yes. I definitely agree if Latu (UCLA) is on the board you pick him. He is almost certainly the BPA at that spot. As discussed above I'd be more wary on Chop Robinson (Penn St) but I can imagine the Bills loving him. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Sweat is a guy who left it all on the field in Texas, pure stud 1 tech.  I really want a DE who can be a stud and be that 10+ per year sack guy.

 

The problem I see is that the DT class seems stronger than the DE class especially if the Bills are drafting D-line at pick 60. I don't think at pick 60 there's likely to be a very strong DE prospect out on the market. Whereas DT seems like a deeper class and teams are less likely to take DT's high up. I am not sure if Sweat will fall to pick 60 but if he does he would be an easy pick for me. Solidifying the 1-tech spot for the next 4 years is a good use of a pick. 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The problem I see is that the DT class seems stronger than the DE class especially if the Bills are drafting D-line at pick 60. I don't think at pick 60 there's likely to be a very strong DE prospect out on the market. Whereas DT seems like a deeper class and teams are less likely to take DT's high up. I am not sure if Sweat will fall to pick 60 but if he does he would be an easy pick for me. Solidifying the 1-tech spot for the next 4 years is a good use of a pick. 

Sweat would be a nice option at 60, but I am betting he will be off the board barring excessive weight gain between Combine and the draft.  I think there is some depth at DT in this class, but a fair percentage of that depth do not fit the space eater role to start next to Oliver.  Remember, the Bills LBs are pretty light and need to be kept clean by DTs on running plays.  They might choose to go smaller/more mobile next to Olive - someone like Jenkins maybe, but I don’t think we’d like the run defense results (but might bolster the pass rush).

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I don't agree with this statement.

As another poster said, I'd qualify Ed Oliver, Groot, and AJ as successes. Oliver is coming off a career year where he was right there among the NFL's best DTs. Groot and AJ have thus far been more modest successes, but they were taken in the late 1st and 2nd rounds, respectively. The arrow is pointing up on both.

I don't think Beane has actually really taken that many swings on D-linemen in the draft overall, and of those swings he HAS taken, only Basham was a complete bust. The rest are all useful to good NFL players.

Now if you want to say he hasn't had any SMASH successes, any out-of-the-park homeruns at DL in the draft, then I'll agree with you. 

2 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Beane is not doing this evaluation on his own. It has been a failure of an entire scouting and player/personnel staff. But I would argue that he has hit on Groot, AJ, and Oliver. The only real miss of his high-round drafting on the DL is Boogie. Also, it is a failure that is shared with alll 32 NFL teams. Do you know that there were four DTs drafted before Chris Jones? And Jones played in the SEC, so it's not like he slipped through the cracks. One of the guys drafted before Jones was Robert Nkemdiche, who is currently in the CFL and another was former Bill Vernon Butler. Outside of a few can't-miss prospects, it is a very inexact science.

So AJE and Groot are considered "hits" or "modest successes"? Have we really lowered the bar so low that 2 guys averaging 3.5 and 5.5 sacks/ yr are hits? Success stories?  I need to see at least 9-10 sacks from these 2 before I'm anointing them hits. You know, that play where you actually tackle the qb before he can pass it. Pressures and hurries mean nothing if Mahomes/ Burrow are still able to get the ball out.

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

left it all on the field but left nothing at the buffet table.

 

My kind of DT!

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Hoping Sweat is this year’s Torrence!

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I'm not ready for this.  I get that almost our entire defensive line are free agents, but I still have PTSD from all the drafting of defensive lineman.  

 

It's been between 3 and 5 years since we did that. So guys like AJ Epenesa and Boogie Basham are either gone or are going to be gone. 

 

What kills me is people who are like "I'm tired of Drafting and spending big money on Defensive Lineman". 

 

Okay, but like you said, 2/3 of our Defensive Line are FA's. So we really don't have a choice but to spend Draft Picks and/or money to field a roster.

 

People have to get over the 2019-2021 Drafts. That's a lifetime ago in the NFL. It happened and we had varying degrees of success between Oliver, Groot, Epenesa, and Basham. 

 

But now we need to find a starter on the Edge (or at least starting caliber, as we can't just get assume Miller will bounce back), a starter alongside Oliver, the first guy up in rotation at both DT spots (who will both get a ton of reps), and at least one more DE and two more DT's for depth to go along with them.

 

Like it or not, we have to Draft Defensive Lineman this year. It's not really an option. Hopefully it doesn't happen until Round 2 with a WR in Round 1. But it's going to happen and people are just going to have to get over it.

Edited March 1 by BillsFanForever19

[gjv]

Check out Masson Smith LSU. I'm hoping he is available in round 3. I would move up in round 3 to draft him.

[BillsPride12]

5 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Hoping Sweat is this year’s Torrence!

Hate to say it because it would be awesome but it feels like Sweat is going to rise up on team's boards not fall back 

[BBFL]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

From Michigan but played his college ball at Missouri, yes. I definitely agree if Latu (UCLA) is on the board you pick him. He is almost certainly the BPA at that spot. As discussed above I'd be more wary on Chop Robinson (Penn St) but I can imagine the Bills loving him. 

 

I think we already discussed Chop and I’m honestly indifferent. Wouldn’t hate it as it’s a need but wouldn’t, like you, love it either. 
 

 

Latu could be special. Probably not the best day of testing for him but the tape always shows you what you get IMO. 

 

Let’s say Turner makes it there and you have Latu, Turner and Chop… Who do they take?

 

Realistically it’ll only be Latu or Chop. Dallas Turner was already projected to be the #1/2 edge guy off the board… guy absolutely dominated and took a stranglehold on the top spot at DE/Edge. 
 

 

 

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

It's been between 3 and 5 years since we did that. So guys like AJ Epenesa and Boogie Basham are either gone or are going to be gone. 

 

What kills me is people who are like "I'm tired of Drafting and spending big money on Defensive Lineman". 

 

Okay, but like you said, 2/3 of our Defensive Line are FA's. So we really don't have a choice but to spend Draft Picks and/or money to field a roster.

 

People have to get over the 2019-2021 Drafts. That's a lifetime ago in the NFL. It happened and we had varying degrees of success between Oliver, Groot, Epenesa, and Basham. 

 

But now we need to find a starter on the Edge (or at least starting caliber, as we can't just get assume Miller will bounce back), a starter alongside Oliver, the first guy up in rotation at both DT spots (who will both get a ton of reps), and at least one more DE and two more DT's for depth to go along with them.

 

Like it or not, we have to Draft Defensive Lineman this year. It's not really an option. Hopefully it doesn't happen until Round 2 with a WR in Round 1. But it's going to happen and people are just going to have to get over it.

 

That’s where I’m at. Would love Josh to get a fancy new toy early in the draft but defensive line is an absolute priority with Floyd likely not returning on top of the rest of the decent players on the exodus to boot. Need 2 starters to materialize this off-season on that line. Oof!

[TheBeaneBandit]

18 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Hoping Sweat is this year’s Torrence!

Man that would be a dream!

[TBBills Fan]

I still have trauma from Maybin, no Penn State projects please

Edited March 2 by TBBills Fan

[wppete]

19 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Hoping Sweat is this year’s Torrence!

I agree. If Sweat is there in the second take him. Also if by some miracle Byron Murphy falls to #28 thats a no brainer. Hes the best DT in this draft. 

[John from Riverside]

Sweat doesn’t look like the kind of defensive tackle that the bills take yes I think he is going to be pretty good

[RyanC883]

23 hours ago, BBFL said:

Think many people are in the I’d like a receiver but feel they’ll take a DLineman camp, myself included. 
 

And honestly, if they feel they can’t bring in some adequate talent via FA then the draft has got to be the solution. If either the Texas boys or Fiske are the choice then I can’t be mad. Same goes with Latu, Turner, Robinson. If that’s who they go with then so be it and let’s hope for the best. 
 

If Turner or Latu fall that far down the board, which I don’t expect, then I think we’ve found a possible solution to the pass rush. 
 

Maybe they resign AJE and Jones? Do they go WR even if the top 5 guys (MHJ, Odunze, Nabers, Thomas Jr., Coleman) are gone???  
 

🤔

 

Agree with most of this.  But Chop Robinson would be an absoultley horrid pick.  He can't rush the passer or play against the run.  Most of the Edge writeups have lower rush grades and decent run grades.  I'd go for that type of player later in the draft and look more at solid DTs early on.  

[Westside]

23 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Beane is not doing this evaluation on his own. It has been a failure of an entire scouting and player/personnel staff. But I would argue that he has hit on Groot, AJ, and Oliver. The only real miss of his high-round drafting on the DL is Boogie. Also, it is a failure that is shared with alll 32 NFL teams. Do you know that there were four DTs drafted before Chris Jones? And Jones played in the SEC, so it's not like he slipped through the cracks. One of the guys drafted before Jones was Robert Nkemdiche, who is currently in the CFL and another was former Bill Vernon Butler. Outside of a few can't-miss prospects, it is a very inexact science.

I think groot needs to take the next level. He has been good in some games and totally disappears in others.I think he can become the stud we all hope he can be, but I really don't want a situation where he is kinda good until the last year of his contract then leaves to go to another team who could afford him. That would in my eyes become a bad pick.  

[BBFL]

7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Agree with most of this.  But Chop Robinson would be an absoultley horrid pick.  He can't rush the passer or play against the run.  Most of the Edge writeups have lower rush grades and decent run grades.  I'd go for that type of player later in the draft and look more at solid DTs early on.  

I agree with you. He’s the one DE I hope they stay away from just after his combine he’s going to have teams more enamored with him and out of that grouping is definitely a possible candidate @ 28 if they choose to address the position then. There was a post a week or so back where I mentioned my coworkers who played collegiately at Pitt think he has talent but relies solely on being a better athlete and not football player. They believe Isaac is the PSU DE to draft…