BillsFanNC Posted March 2 Author Posted March 2 I wonder why the FBI/DOJ are going after journalists in police state fashion? A real head scratcher. 2 1
B-Man Posted March 5 Posted March 5 CIA in Ukraine: Why is this not seen as provocation? An explosive new NYT report shows how Washington needlessly fed into Russia’s worst fears and precipitated the invasion, justified or not MARK EPISKOPOS The White House’s messaging on the Ukraine war is built around two simple-yet-powerful adjectives: “We are united in our condemnation,” said President Joe Biden almost two years ago in a joint statement with EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, “of Russia’s unjustified and unprovoked war of aggression against Ukraine.” The “unjustified and unprovoked” line has been used numerous times by a chorus of top U.S. officials and allies, quickly becoming a rhetorical mainstay of Biden’s maximum pressure campaign against the Kremlin. This messaging conflates two important, yet fundamentally different issues. There is little question that Russia’s invasion has wrought a horrific human toll on Ukraine and upended European security in ways that few anticipated prior to February 2022. But it is also not without its context, which includes a litany of grievances that — however unjustified from the perspective of the West — constitute what the Kremlin saw as sufficient provocation to initiate the most destructive war in Europe since 1945. An explosive New York Times exposé by Adam Entous and Michael Schwirtz sheds light on major developments preceding the full-scale invasion of Ukraine. According to the report, the Ukrainian government entered into a wide-ranging partnership with the CIA against Russia. This cooperation, which involved the establishment of as many as 12 secret CIA “forward operating bases” along Ukraine’s border with Russia, began not with Russia’s 2022 invasion, but just over 10 years ago. https://responsiblestatecraft.org/cia-ukraine-russia/ 1 1
dickleyjones Posted March 5 Posted March 5 who can be so overtly covert? sometimes even covertly overt? f-ing a man! 1
T master Posted March 5 Posted March 5 On 3/1/2024 at 7:58 AM, Tiberius said: MAGA wants to kill that support to help Putin. FU!!! 👎 F MAGA TRASH SCUM! Biden wants to support Ukraine so Hunter continues to get paid & doesn't have to move back in with Dad . So that's why Joe got Hunter the hook up with Burisma it's starting to make sense now . Hey Tibs The truth will piss you off !! On 3/1/2024 at 7:16 PM, B-Man said: Between Iraq, Afghanistan, & now Ukraine there seems to be a pattern that has developed I just wonder how long it will be before Ukraines president will be found to be the bad guy & be sought out by the US gov't for his crimes against America .
The Frankish Reich Posted March 5 Posted March 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, B-Man said: The “unjustified and unprovoked” line has been used numerous times by a chorus of top U.S. officials and allies, quickly becoming a rhetorical mainstay of Biden’s maximum pressure campaign against the Kremlin. Implying that Putin's invasion was at least somewhat justified and a little bit provoked. Oh, please tell: what were these provocations? 2 hours ago, B-Man said: a litany of grievances that — however unjustified from the perspective of the West — constitute what the Kremlin saw as sufficient provocation to initiate the most destructive war in Europe since 1945. I see. We must be more sensitive to a dictator's "litany of grievances" and make sure our allegiances kowtow to him. We must not assist an ally in gathering intelligence about a possible invasion of it's own territory, lest the dictator's behemoth next door takes offense and launches a full-scale bombing campaign against its civilians. Edited March 5 by The Frankish Reich
JaCrispy Posted March 5 Posted March 5 On 3/1/2024 at 8:58 AM, Tiberius said: MAGA wants to kill that support to help Putin. FU!!! 👎 F MAGA TRASH SCUM! Tibs, why don’t you dispose of the emotional temper tantrums, and just listen to the logic of what the guy is saying for Christ sake… You’re a grown a$$ man flailing about like a child because of your TDS…get an F-ing grip… 1 1 1
Tiberius Posted March 5 Posted March 5 Just now, JaCrispy said: Tibs, why don’t you dispose of the emotional temper tantrums, and just listen to the logic of what the guy is saying for Christ sake… You’re a grown a$$ man flailing about like a child because of your TDS…get an F-ing grip… Putin trying wipe out an entire nation of 40 million people and you want people to just be cool with that? What the f is wrong with you? 27 minutes ago, T master said: Biden wants to support Ukraine so Hunter continues to get paid & doesn't have to move back in with Dad . So that's why Joe got Hunter the hook up with Burisma it's starting to make sense now . Is there anything right wing media says that you don't believe?
The Frankish Reich Posted March 5 Posted March 5 2 hours ago, B-Man said: An explosive new NYT report shows how Washington needlessly fed into Russia’s worst fears and precipitated the invasion, justified or not All I can say is: RTFA. I mean the original NYT article, not someone else's take on it. Here it is. If it's paywalled, well, there's workarounds posted all over the place. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html bottom line: Ukraine (with USA and UK critical assistance) did provoke a tantrum in Putin because they thwarted his plan to install a Russian puppet government there. So the noninterventionists may have a point, but if so, the point is this: we should cede the Soviet Union's historical sphere of influence to Putin in a kind of eastern European Russian Monroe Doctrine.
JaCrispy Posted March 5 Posted March 5 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Putin trying wipe out an entire nation of 40 million people and you want people to just be cool with that? What the f is wrong with you? Well, now I can see why you’re so emotional- you believe in a narrative that isn’t even happening… So then I urge you to please watch the video, so you can know what’s actually going on, and you don’t give yourself an aneurism over a false narrative…👍 1 1
The Frankish Reich Posted March 5 Posted March 5 4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: So then I urge you to please watch the video The video you posted - really a powerpoint of key grabs from the NYT deep reporting - is wrong or deceptive on key points, such as suggesting that CIA operatives were actually on Russian soil. Again - GO TO THE SOURCE. It is a very well sourced and reported story in (gasp!) the NYT. You are free to argue your own conclusions after reading it, including whether the US has a key strategic interest in Ukraine and, if not, whether we should just let Russia have it. But at least that would be based on real reporting, not something called "The Crux."
Tiberius Posted March 5 Posted March 5 14 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Well, now I can see why you’re so emotional- you believe in a narrative that isn’t even happening… So then I urge you to please watch the video, so you can know what’s actually going on, and you don’t give yourself an aneurism over a false narrative…👍 Bull sh it will make me feel better?
T master Posted March 5 Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Putin trying wipe out an entire nation of 40 million people and you want people to just be cool with that? What the f is wrong with you? Is there anything right wing media says that you don't believe? Well there's nothing that left wing media says that you don't . Right ? 1
T master Posted March 5 Posted March 5 4 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: I wonder who's next First Fanny might get kicked out, AOC loses it when confronted about her stances on palestine, now this . I love it - the truth will set you free, or make you quit, or get you fired or make you lose it to the point of using the F bomb many times for all to here ...😜 Oh excuse me i forgot - IT'S ALL TRUMPS FAULT - There i feel better ... 1
JaCrispy Posted March 5 Posted March 5 On 3/1/2024 at 7:16 PM, The Frankish Reich said: Of course the CIA was in Ukraine. They are everywhere, both officially and under (usually diplomatic) cover. All you supposed tough guys are suddenly like the frickin' Church Committee back in the 70s, shocked (shocked!) to see such things ... which just proves my point that the Trumpies are the new pacifists, the Dems are the new Cold Warriors. Wuss. It’s not that we are shocked…everyone knows the illegal activities the CIA gets away with… Our whole point is to just not be surprised if Russia invades a country (who had always been friendly to them) because the CIA orchestrates a coup, in that country, to oppose Russia, in an attempt to diminish Russia’s energy production…👍 This whole war is the fault of the American Establishment, and it’s CIA foot soldiers…And I will always oppose sending one penny more, to fund it… 1 1
Tiberius Posted March 5 Posted March 5 42 minutes ago, T master said: Well there's nothing that left wing media says that you don't . Right ? No, I take with a grain of salt a lot of the stuff on media sources. The right wing sources just are worse 1
T master Posted March 5 Posted March 5 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, I take with a grain of salt a lot of the stuff on media sources. The right wing sources just are worse Any more it's hard to know if either just report the news and leave it at that . I quit watching the nightly news quite a while ago then i started watching documentaries where they go in depth with their research to find out all the dirty little details but it got so dirty at times i had to quit watching because the amount of evil people that run this country outside of who is president is astounding !! P.S. Then when i do post anything with hard evidence or any proof of wrong doing you and BT are usually silent & have nothing to say, the first to reply on everyday happenings that keep people distracted on the hard stuff but the quietest on the real hard stuff that truly needs more people to see what's going on . Edited March 5 by T master 1
Tiberius Posted March 5 Posted March 5 6 minutes ago, T master said: Any more it's hard to know if either just report the news and leave it at that . I quit watching the nightly news quite a while ago then i started watching documentaries where they go in depth with their research to find out all the dirty little details but it got so dirty at times i had to quit watching because the amount of evil people that run this country outside of who is president is astounding !! Are the documentaries just bull sh it?
T master Posted March 5 Posted March 5 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Are the documentaries just bull sh it? If it doesn't follow what you believe things to be in your mind they are !! You wouldn't take the time to watch any way you would watch like 5 minutes find the one thing you disagree on & say it's Trump fault and leave it at that ... So then there's that .
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