Since this applies to the Bills A LOT now, can someone explain Void years?

[Tuco]

12 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Question with an example please:

If a void year has a $3 million cap hit an the player signs with the same team for $7 million for one year, that player is technically earning $10 million ($3 million void year bonus money plus $7 million new money) for that year, right? 

 

But if that player signs with a new team for $10 million, he still gets the $3 million void-year money from his old team plus the new $10 million, right? So he's actually getting $13 million that year instead of just the $10 million.

 

If my understanding is correct, the player is richer if he signs with a new team for the same (or relatively close to the same) money. 

 

So I think it's in the player's best financial interest not to "settle" for a new contract with void-year money if another team is going to pay around the same for that new period.

 

Correct?

Incorrect. The $3 million is money the player was already paid in a previous year, it just hasn't been charged to the team's cap yet. It was considered bonus money so the original team was able to pay him up front but prorate the cap charge for that bonus money into later years. When the years are voided the team is still charged the cap amount even though the player has already received the money. To put it another way, the team still owes the cap $3 million because in a previous year the player actually made $10 but the team was able to only have $7 million charged against the cap in that year. So now, even though the player is gone, or even if he's not, the team still has to have the $3 million charged to their cap. But the player has already been paid the money previously. That's why it's called dead cap. Not because they still owe the player who is gone, but because they already paid the player who is gone but haven't had that money charged to their cap yet.

 

So no. If the player signs with the team for $7 million he only gets $7 million while the team's cap charge is $10 million - $7 million for the new contract and $3 million in "dead cap" for the previous bonus. If he signs with a new team for $10 million he gets $10 million from the new team. The old team still has the $3 million dead cap charge.

Edited March 2 by Tuco

[Thurman#1]

On 3/1/2024 at 5:32 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

I posted this in another thread, but with the amount of void years the Bills are adding to contracts and our salary cap constraints this year and moving forward, can one of our resident CAP experts please explain Void years???

 

We just restructured Conner McGovern's contract and added 2 void years at the end of his contract.  This means that even though his contract expires at the end of 2025, there will still be dead cap money for 2 more years.

 

So does this basically just provide extra motivation to extend him for 2 more seasons beyond 2025?  And if we do that, does that basically just mean the void years we just put in his contract don't end up impacting the team at all?

 

Then as a follow up question, when we signed Leonard Floyd last offseason, it was reported that there was a void year (I think just one) that we added into the deal.  According to Spotrac, Floyd has a dead cap hit THIS YEAR of $4,376,250.

 

Now... IF that is correct regarding the Floyd deal AND my thoughts about extending a player who has void years would be beneficial in terms of the CAP, wouldn't it be wise to just sign him to another deal for next year since you're already paying him over $4m???  Even if Floyd goes out in the market and gets an offer of $10m on a one year deal from a team, the Bills could technically offer him the exact same deal and pay less than $6m in new money, correct???

 

Anyone with an understanding of the void years thing???  An explanation would be much appreciated

 

 

Not 100% sure what that sentence means, but you seem (to me) to be saying that void years are beneficial to the cap.

 

They are not. Total overall cap will be the same. They are just another way of improving THIS YEAR'S CAP by borrowing from future cap years.

 

It's not improving the cap. It's making this year's cap figure better, while making future years cap figures worse by the same amount.

 

Once the actual cash has been paid, it MUST be accounted for against the cap. Once you've paid a signing bonus, a roster bonus, an option bonus, whatever there's no way to avoid the entire amount of that bonus from being charged against the cap. There are only ways to borrow from future years. This is just a way to take money actually paid one year and have some of it hit the cap later.

 

 

Edited March 2 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 3/2/2024 at 12:59 AM, Nephilim17 said:

Question with an example please:

If a void year has a $3 million cap hit an the player signs with the same team for $7 million for one year, that player is technically earning $10 million ($3 million void year bonus money plus $7 million new money) for that year, right? 

 

But if that player signs with a new team for $10 million, he still gets the $3 million void-year money from his old team plus the new $10 million, right? So he's actually getting $13 million that year instead of just the $10 million.

 

If my understanding is correct, the player is richer if he signs with a new team for the same (or relatively close to the same) money. 

 

So I think it's in the player's best financial interest not to "settle" for a new contract with void-year money if another team is going to pay around the same for that new period.

 

Correct?

 

 

Your question has already been addressed, and very well.

 

But if I can kick in another few words?

 

Take a look at a specific example that's real. Connor McGovern got void years. Go look at his Spotrac page.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/connor-mcgovern-29126/

 

If you take a look at the top, you'll see that the contract terns say, "3 yr(s) / $22,350,000". So the total amount of the contract is $22,350,000.

 

2026 is the first void year, 2025 the last real year. So go look at the table, and near the right side you'll find a column labelled "Yearly Cash." That tells how much actual cash the player will actually receive that year. And Spotrac keeps a running count on how much has been spent total. If you look in the Yearly Cash column for the year 2025, the figure in parentheses gives you the total the Bills will have given to McGovern in cash by the end of the 2025 season (assuming he plays with us through 2025).

 

That total is $22,350,000. He will have received all of his money by the end of the real contract.

 

The figures in that table for the void years are only already-paid bonuses that have not yet been amortized on the cap. They have nothing to do with real cash money still being paid at that point, and everything to do with cap money.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2 by Thurman#1

[PBF81]

On 3/1/2024 at 5:51 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

No player dominates every game. That isn't the NFL. You can't cherry pick the games you like and the ones you don't. His playoff numbers are solid. He has played well in the post season for the Bills. End of story. I will tell you when he hasn't played well. I am not disingenuously spouting shite here. When he underperforms as he did against KC this year I will say it. 

 

Yea. It isn't true.

 

That response of yours is a whole lot different than this one.  

 

Quote

2. The only guy I strongly disagree on is Ed Oliver. I know you don't agree because I saw you argue it elsewhere so no need to rehearse it here, but Ed's playoff numbers are solid.

 

If you want to argue simply for the sake of arguing, them simply say so.  At least I'll know not to waste my time.  

 

The point about the lack of consistency and the general lack of putting up stats in big games is indisputable, try as you may.   

 

You've done zero to dispel that other than to simply "say so".

 

 

Edited March 3 by PBF81

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That response of yours is a whole lot different than this one.  

 

 

If you want to argue simply for the sake of arguing, them simply say so.  At least I'll know not to waste my time.  

 

The point about the lack of consistency and the general lack of putting up stats in big games is indisputable, try as you may.   

 

You've done zero to dispel that other than to simply "say so".

 

 

 

I have made my case you have made yours. I have no desire to have one of your long rambling, unweildy "whataboutery" debates on this topic. Got way too much to be doing at the moment.

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have made my case you have made yours. I have no desire to have one of your long rambling, unweildy "whataboutery" debates on this topic. Got way too much to be doing at the moment.

 

Your quote BTW;

 

 

Quote

He didn't have his best game against KC and what they showed is what the case most of the year and particularly down the stretch when Floyd completely collapsed. 

 

So frankly, I'm not sure which one off you I'm trying to discuss this with. 

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

19 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Once you've paid a signing bonus, a roster bonus, an option bonus, whatever there's no way to avoid the entire amount of that bonus from being charged against the cap.

Right, which is why creating cap space today by converting salary to bonus is risky.  It helps today but can cause a bigger problem later. Sometimes you should take your medicine earlier.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Your quote BTW;

 

So frankly, I'm not sure which one off you I'm trying to discuss this with. 

 

 

I'm out. 

[PBF81]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm out. 

 

Good decision.  Better to cut one's losses.   

 

For the record however from my standpoint, I'll stand firmly on the fact that the following, and representative of 70% of his playoff games, are not "good numbers" as you've insisted.  

 

 

0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 0 QB Hits in 7 other playoff games.  

 

2019 v. Houston:  0 Sacks, 0 TFLs, 0 QB Hits, 4 comb/assisted tackles 

2020 v. Indy:  0, 0, 0 

2020 v. Balt:  0, 0, 0 

2020 v. KC:  0, 1, 0 

2021 v. NE:  0, 0, 0 

2022 v. Cincy:  0, 0, 0 

2023 v. KC:  0, 0, 0