NIL deals keeping more players in college now and diluting the draft talent pool?

[Monty98]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Right. It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he already won seven National Titles and is 72 years old.

 

Did he need the money? No, because he owns a 17.5 million dollar house, two Mercedes Benz dealerships, a Ferrari dealership, and a hotel. That doesn't matter either.

 

His wife has been patient for decades with Nick being away from home while constantly recruiting and working 16 hour days. Now he is a grandfather and would finally like to spend more time with his family. That makes no difference, right? 

 

The jealousy folks have and exhibit towards Coach Saban and The University of Alabama Crimson Tide never ceases to amaze me. Imagine how great it would it be for you if your favorite team and their coach was even fractionally as tremendous as Saban and the Tide!

And his white knights never fail to show up. Not like he's still the most vocal about how NIL and transfer portal is the worst thing in the world after he "retired". If it wasn't the reason he retired he would have never said anything. Also I don't need Nick Saban to enjoy the success of my favourite program. He hated that he couldn't be the guy anymore and left crying about how it changed and it's not fair.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Right. It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he already won seven National Titles and is 72 years old.

 

Did he need the money? No, because he owns a 17.5 million dollar house, two Mercedes Benz dealerships, a Ferrari dealership, and a hotel. That doesn't matter either.

 

His wife has been patient for decades with Nick being away from home while constantly recruiting and working 16 hour days. Now he is a grandfather and would finally like to spend more time with his family. That makes no difference, right? 

 

The jealousy folks have and exhibit towards Coach Saban and The University of Alabama Crimson Tide never ceases to amaze me. Imagine how great it would it be for you if your favorite team and their coach was even fractionally as tremendous as Saban and the Tide!

 

I mean I agree all that is relevant. But nobody has bitched about NIL and the transfer portal more than Nick. Not without cause I might add. He is the greatest college coach of all time IMO, and I have no college rooting interest so there is no subjectivity here - but I do think he just concluded he didn't want to compete in this new world. 

[SoTier]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:20 AM, boyst said:

your assumption is grossly wrong 🤪. and taking about 50 years ago as experience is grossly different than just 15-20 years ago.

 

i played in a division 1 sport at a MAC school in the early 00's briefly (about 4 months). I was burned out and quit having been playing athletic competitive sports since 8 or 9 years old. i participated with 3 world class athletes on my team and associated with at least 3 future nfl players i can think of on the top of my head.

 

Your personal views and my personal views were much different and we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Were you on an athletic scholarship?  If you were, were you pressured to give it up, and did you?   Did you graduate from this school or did you go to another school or just drop out?   Did you "burn out" because of the pressure to excel at athletics while still learning to navigate your first semester of college?  Did you feel you were missing out on your college education in order to play college athletics?   You don't have to answer any of these questions publicly.  Just think about your answers. 

 

On 2/29/2024 at 10:57 AM, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah trying to compare the 70s to now might as well be comparing two different sports.

 

Recruiters for big time collegiate sports programs don't give a real picture of what's really expected of college athletes.  They sell them on an idealized picture of getting a free education plus perks doing something they love to do anyway.  What they don't tell them is the cost that they'll be expected to pay.    Student-athletes are always under pressure to perform at the highest level no matter the sacrifice but somehow that doesn't find its way into recruiters' spiel.

 

It was that way in the 1970s, and it's still that way in the 2020s. 

 

On 2/29/2024 at 12:15 PM, Ya Digg? said:

Perhaps not being exploited, but considering the NCAA and the universities make billions off of the players, it's allowing them to be more fairly compensated for what they are doing for those universities 

 

It lessens the ability of collegiate HCs to control their star players by controlling all the purse-strings.

 

On 2/29/2024 at 2:01 PM, Freddie's Dead said:

 

We're gonna disagree here.  Many college athletes never even got their degree, but this argument was successfully used for decades to deny the athletes their due.  It also didn't address the vast disparity between the "value" of their education and the amount of money raked in by the colleges and the NCAA.  

 

Since the 1970s, collegiate sports have been "reformed".  Some of the abuses that have been limited include:  colleges can't give athletic scholarships to students who are so academically deficient that they can't score minimum scores on the SATs; athletes have to make at least minimum progress towards degrees;  that a certain percentage of a team's athletes have to graduate within certain number of years from when they started, etc.   Sadly, many of the institutions of "higher education" that field the most successful athletic programs in football and basketball fought these reforms tooth and nail. 

 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Monty98 said:

And his white knights never fail to show up. Not like he's still the most vocal about how NIL and transfer portal is the worst thing in the world after he "retired". If it wasn't the reason he retired he would have never said anything. Also I don't need Nick Saban to enjoy the success of my favourite program. He hated that he couldn't be the guy anymore and left crying about how it changed and it's not fair.

Not the guy? How many playoff appearances does he have since NIL? He has won more championships than your favorite school has with all of their coaches combined (if they ever won any).

 

That said, don't be weighed down by jealousy and/or depression.  Do feel better.

 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean I agree all that is relevant. But nobody has bitched about NIL and the transfer portal more than Nick. Not without cause I might add. He is the greatest college coach of all time IMO, and I have no college rooting interest so there is no subjectivity here - but I do think he just concluded he didn't want to compete in this new world. 

GB, Coach Saban has stated NUMEROUS times that he wants players to get paid. He did however say that there should be some sort of system in place. With the latest Appellate Court ruling, it looks as if there will be no system. The judge even imposed a tremporary injunction against the NCAA from what I understand, and this was AFTER his decision to retire. Coach Saban said that he made his final decision 5 minutes before the 4 PM phone call and Terry (his wife) said she would support him either way.

 

My daughter told me that when judges impose these injunctions, they tend to think that their decision is very unlikely to be overturned. But keep in mind, I am not the lawyer in the family.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

GB, Coach Saban has stated NUMEROUS times that he wants players to get paid. He did however say that there should be some sort of system in place. With the latest Appellate Court ruling, it looks as if there will be no system. The judge even imposed a tremporary injunction against the NCAA from what I understand, and this was AFTER his decision to retire. Coach Saban said that he made his final decision 5 minutes before the 4 PM phone call and Terry (his wife) said she would support him either way.

 

My daughter told me that when judges impose these injunctions, they tend to think that their decision is very unlikely to be overturned. But keep in mind, I am not the lawyer in the family.

 

Yes he wants players to get paid. But not in a way that shakes up the status quo. I don't blame him for that. He is an old dude now. I think 2023 was one of his best coaching jobs. To get that 'Bama team to the final 4 and to within a play of beating the eventual champs was a hell of a job. With any other coach that was a borderline top 10 team. 

 

But there is no doubt in my mind that NIL and the transfer portal were factors in his decision. Nick spent 15 years at the top. He had a dynasty that likely never gets matched. But like it or not you can't just out recruit and outcoach folks now. That isn't the game anymore. And Saban decided the landscape that left wasn't for him. 

[Bill from NYC]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes he wants players to get paid. But not in a way that shakes up the status quo. I don't blame him for that. He is an old dude now. I think 2023 was one of his best coaching jobs. To get that 'Bama team to the final 4 and to within a play of beating the eventual champs was a hell of a job. With any other coach that was a borderline top 10 team. 

 

But there is no doubt in my mind that NIL and the transfer portal were factors in his decision. Nick spent 15 years at the top. He had a dynasty that likely never gets matched. But like it or not you can't just out recruit and outcoach folks now. That isn't the game anymore. And Saban decided the landscape that left wasn't for him. 

And you would be 100% correct, AND; he did it without a great QB. I am not at all high on Milroe.

 

The 4 QBs on Alabama before Milroe were superb and yes, this includes Mac Jones (although that particular team could be considered to have had one of the best offenses of all time). Either way, Hurts, Tua, Mac, and Bryce were great college QBs. Milroe is not imo. He is a great runner but he very slow in terms of making decisions and takes unneccessary sacks. He throws a pretty good deep pass (especially post patterns) but he needs tons of work on the short stuff, but remember, this will be his 4th year in Tuscaloosa. Despite everything, to include a very poor start, they just missed making the title game and did defeat Georgia, in Atlanta. 

 

Btw, I don't know much about DeBoer but I love the things that he is saying. Bama still has a TON of talent in the QB room and I am hoping for an open competition.

[boyst]

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Were you on an athletic scholarship?  If you were, were you pressured to give it up, and did you?   Did you graduate from this school or did you go to another school or just drop out?   Did you "burn out" because of the pressure to excel at athletics while still learning to navigate your first semester of college?  Did you feel you were missing out on your college education in order to play college athletics?   You don't have to answer any of these questions publicly.  Just think about your answers. 

 

 

Recruiters for big time collegiate sports programs don't give a real picture of what's really expected of college athletes.  They sell them on an idealized picture of getting a free education plus perks doing something they love to do anyway.  What they don't tell them is the cost that they'll be expected to pay.    Student-athletes are always under pressure to perform at the highest level no matter the sacrifice but somehow that doesn't find its way into recruiters' spiel.

 

It was that way in the 1970s, and it's still that way in the 2020s. 

 

 

It lessens the ability of collegiate HCs to control their star players by controlling all the purse-strings.

 

 

Since the 1970s, collegiate sports have been "reformed".  Some of the abuses that have been limited include:  colleges can't give athletic scholarships to students who are so academically deficient that they can't score minimum scores on the SATs; athletes have to make at least minimum progress towards degrees;  that a certain percentage of a team's athletes have to graduate within certain number of years from when they started, etc.   Sadly, many of the institutions of "higher education" that field the most successful athletic programs in football and basketball fought these reforms tooth and nail. 

 

Those are a lot of complicated questions. Looking back at them as a few decades of past isn't the same as then and what was. But, the answer was clear then and is now. I wasn't prepared for success as a young man who walked around with his head up his ass. I went to a top tier high school and was a decent stand out in sports. I got to college and only wanted to play sports, but I dedicated my time to academics like I never had before because it took a fraction of the time as high school. After 1 semester as a walk on athlete in a sport where24 men were on the team and a total of 4 full ride scholarships were available - 1 full to an Olympian, ½ to two seniors, another full to a freshman who failed out his freshman year and the rest among a few others. The freshman scholarship was so he could afford college. He was phenomenal but dumb as rocks. The the rest were given to others, but no other freshman.

 

So, after graduating highschool with a 2.8 not giving 1 ***** about it I had a 3.4 gpa my freshman year. I had quit in the middle of the 2nd semester. 

 

I couldn't find the joy of the activity. I couldn't muster up the energy to focus on pleasures of success and winning. What was my MVP sport growing up was done.

 

I quit because I was done. I was able to compete, I was going to be "starting." I had been receiving special training, etc.  4 hours a day during the off-season. 2 hours study hall twice a week. 4-5 hours a week extra I throw out more practice. 

 

I thought I didn't need that structure and it wore on me. Turns out I was wrong.

 

 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean I agree all that is relevant. But nobody has bitched about NIL and the transfer portal more than Nick. Not without cause I might add. He is the greatest college coach of all time IMO, and I have no college rooting interest so there is no subjectivity here - but I do think he just concluded he didn't want to compete in this new world. 

counter: he’s 72

 

even in the old world, he might have been done. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

counter: he’s 72

 

even in the old world, he might have been done. 

 

Very fair. But I do think the changed landscape was a factor. It is likely getting harder not easier for 'Bama from here. And at 62 maybe he is up for that fight. At 72, less so.

[Thurmal34]

a free labor pool by any other name is...

[Big Turk]

15 hours ago, SoTier said:

Recruiters for big time collegiate sports programs don't give a real picture of what's really expected of college athletes.  They sell them on an idealized picture of getting a free education plus perks doing something they love to do anyway.  What they don't tell them is the cost that they'll be expected to pay.    Student-athletes are always under pressure to perform at the highest level no matter the sacrifice but somehow that doesn't find its way into recruiters' spiel.

 

It was that way in the 1970s, and it's still that way in the 2020s. 

 

 

It helps when they had people doing their homework for them and taking their tests for them, which was likely far more prevalent back then than it is now since everyone is watching these days. Or simply taking the easiest classes they could enroll for.

Edited March 2 by Big Turk

[Orlando Buffalo]

Something I have been hearing from friends who teach down in Belle Glade area that NIL is coming to high school. Players currently go to local restaurants and get free food without concern about college eligibility, so how long till it is fully sanctioned?

[Buffalo Super Fan]

On 2/28/2024 at 5:32 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s actually very good for the NFL. Makes players easier to scout plus prepares them better for the pros.

I disagree it’s bad for NFL owners and cities like the Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns and Green Bay Packers to name a few that are in crappy markets that players wish to avoid in the NFL draft. NIL allows players to not come out to small crappy markets especially if you are playing in Los Angeles at USC or UCLA why would I want to go to Green Bay? Plus it’s going to drive NFL costs up which gets passed onto the NFL fans. If I have NIL endorsement deals for millions of dollars and selling my own autographed merchandise why do I need Green Bay Packers or the NFL to do that anymore? If I made millions in NIL endorsement deals I might choose to not play in the NFL at all. Especially if I value my long term health future because the NFL owners don’t care about that just their own personal greed in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Mango]

I don't think it dilutes anything. Often times I think players need more time in college to develop and there is no minor league in football. If anything any reason to stay in college a little longer likely helps the NFL in the long run. This should mean that more players are pro ready on draft day. 

[Mr. WEO]

On 3/1/2024 at 7:19 PM, Bill from NYC said:

GB, Coach Saban has stated NUMEROUS times that he wants players to get paid. He did however say that there should be some sort of system in place. With the latest Appellate Court ruling, it looks as if there will be no system. The judge even imposed a tremporary injunction against the NCAA from what I understand, and this was AFTER his decision to retire. Coach Saban said that he made his final decision 5 minutes before the 4 PM phone call and Terry (his wife) said she would support him either way.

 

My daughter told me that when judges impose these injunctions, they tend to think that their decision is very unlikely to be overturned. But keep in mind, I am not the lawyer in the family.

 

NIL was absolutely a factor in him walking away.  That and the modern college athlete in general.

 

"I want to be clear that wasn't the reason, but some of those events certainly contributed," Saban said of his decision to retire. "I was really disappointed in the way that the players acted after the game. You gotta win with class. You gotta lose with class. We had our opportunities to win the game and we didn't do it, and then showing your ass and being frustrated and throwing helmets and doing that stuff ... that's not who we are and what we've promoted in our program."

 

"Saban also talked about how the way the college football landscape is changing influenced his decision. He estimated that "maybe 70 or 80% of the players you talk to" wanted to know about their playing time for the upcoming season and how much they would be making in NIL money."

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

NIL was absolutely a factor in him walking away.  That and the modern college athlete in general.

 

"I want to be clear that wasn't the reason, but some of those events certainly contributed," Saban said of his decision to retire. "I was really disappointed in the way that the players acted after the game. You gotta win with class. You gotta lose with class. We had our opportunities to win the game and we didn't do it, and then showing your ass and being frustrated and throwing helmets and doing that stuff ... that's not who we are and what we've promoted in our program."

 

"Saban also talked about how the way the college football landscape is changing influenced his decision. He estimated that "maybe 70 or 80% of the players you talk to" wanted to know about their playing time for the upcoming season and how much they would be making in NIL money."

 

 

Agreed. My point was that NIL was not the only reason.

Edited March 7 by Bill from NYC

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Agreed. My point wsas that NIL was not the only reason.

 

 

it was a huge factor.

[Big Blitz]

On 3/7/2024 at 8:29 AM, Mr. WEO said:

 

NIL was absolutely a factor in him walking away.  That and the modern college athlete in general.

 

"I want to be clear that wasn't the reason, but some of those events certainly contributed," Saban said of his decision to retire. "I was really disappointed in the way that the players acted after the game. You gotta win with class. You gotta lose with class. We had our opportunities to win the game and we didn't do it, and then showing your ass and being frustrated and throwing helmets and doing that stuff ... that's not who we are and what we've promoted in our program."

 

"Saban also talked about how the way the college football landscape is changing influenced his decision. He estimated that "maybe 70 or 80% of the players you talk to" wanted to know about their playing time for the upcoming season and how much they would be making in NIL money."

 

 

 

This will all end well.  
 

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:48 AM, SoTier said:

 

You have obviously not had any experience with a big time collegiate sports program like football or basketball.  I worked as a tutor for a large Midwestern university's football players for a single semester in the 1970s.  This school was always in contention for the National Championship.  Even though I was a starving grad assistant and the money was very good, I couldn't continue participating in a system which I saw as extremely exploitive.   Most of these young men never sniffed the NFL, never got their college degrees, and certainly never made "connections in business/life through boosters".   When they used up their eligibility and/or were seriously injured, they were literally kicked to the curb.

 

The NCCA programs are much better now, but accepting a college athletic scholarship to a major Div 1 program is not nearly the ticket to a better life that many people believe except for those few collegiate athlete who become stars. 

Does NIL Really solve this or does it just start paying those who were going to make it anyways earlier? Honest question?