KC makes Sneed available for Trade

[ngbills]

6 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the injuries to Von and Tre are not on the team.  just unfortunate events.   If Chris Jones and Kelce went down for the year, does that mean Reid should be fired for going 8-8?   

Well Von was 32 years old when he got that contract. By far the oldest edge rusher to get a deal that big. Most guys getting that deal are 25-27 not 32 years old. The Chiefs have been avoiding giving Jones a a large long term deal and he is only 29. 

I can chalk Tre up to bad luck with the injury.

Issue with Knox is they paid him top TE money. He is overpaid and even worse now that we have Kincaid. Plenty of teams had more productive guys than Knox for less money. 

[Success]

21 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Just cut MVS and save another $12M

 

Kind of just creates another need for them, too.  They're already short good WR's.

 

[mjt328]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Agreed. Not every KC move needs to be lauded as genius. What’s more important to me is their overall philosophy of doing business when you have the guy at QB. It affords them the ability to move on from great players, still in their prime, to accumulate pieces for the team. 

 

Outside of Tyreek Hill, there aren't really any great examples of the Chiefs being willing to move on from their top players.  It was really a one-time thing, because they desperately needed to upgrade the O-Line and simply couldn't afford to keep him.  If the Bills were forced to trade away one of their best players in middle of their Super Bowl window, the fans would have screamed about bad roster management.  And in moving on from Hill, their WR group has been amongst the NFL's worst over the past two years.  The lack of weapons almost did them in this year.

 

People are looking at the Bills cap situation vs. the Chiefs cap situation, and acting like they have a superior front office because they have more space.  The difference is that Kansas City's pending free agents are Chris Jones and La'Jarius Sneed, along with their starting Left Tackle Donovan Smith, their other starting Defensive Tackle Derrick Nnadi and starting linebacker Willie Gay.  Along with another 15-20 depth players.  Not remotely the same situation.

 

 

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

They drafted Snead in the lower rounds and developed him. Now they’re reaping that reward. By tagging him they will get a first if someone else wants him. It also allows the market to set his price and have the right to match. It’s not genius but it’s definitely a great move.

 

The Bills have been able to develop AND keep the majority of their best players.

I'm not sure why we are applauding their cap management, because they are possibly losing their best cornerback.

 

How much credit do the Bills get for getting a 3rd Round comp pick for Tremaine Edmunds, while at the same time upgrading him with Terrell Bernard?

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

NFL teams are closely matched because of the cap. It’s a design purpose. So when you say a team ‘scraped’ by another team that means they beat them. There aren’t style points in the NFL. Great teams make those extra 1 or 2 plays to get the win. In KC’s case this year they did that 3 times in a row against very good teams in the highest of pressured situations. That’s not easy to do. Bills, Balt, SF couldn’t do it. 

 

Unfortunately Bills are a good team but not a great team yet. So that leaves us fans with a lot of feel good ‘what if’ scenarios. 

 

If the ball doesn't bounce off Darrel Luter's foot during the punt return, the Chiefs do not win the Super Bowl.  

If Zay Flowers stretches one more inch before fumbling into the endzone, the Chiefs do not win the AFC.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not trying to diminish the Chiefs accomplishment.  They are a great team and deserve the Lombardi.  But neither of those plays had anything to do with superior roster/cap management over the rest of the NFL.

 

The Chiefs front office should get credit for putting together a roster consistently good enough to compete for the Super Bowl every year.  That isn't easy.  But so should the Buffalo Bills, 49ers, Ravens, etc.  The difference between those teams is literally 1-2 lucky plays.

 

[mjt328]

10 hours ago, Sweats said:

Looks like KC has a plan and aren't afraid to roll with it every season. I mean, they look like a franchise who just seems to "get it"......i kind of wish our FO actually knew what the hell they were doing, instead of looking like they are just making stuff up as they go.

 

5 straight years making the playoffs (and 6 of the last 7 years).

4 straight years winning the division and at least one playoff game.

 

The second highest winning percentage (.697) in all of professional sports over the last 5 years. 

Includes the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL.

 

4 straight years with a Top 10 scoring offense.  Ranks were #6, #2, #3 and #2.

3 straight years with a Top 5 scoring defense.  Ranks were #4, #2 and #1.

4 straight years Top 5 in scoring differential.  5 straight years Top 10.

 

Please kill the nonsense that our front office doesn't know what it's doing.

If the only standard for success is the Kansas City Chiefs, then every single GM in the league is a miserable failure.

 

Edited February 28 by mjt328

[90sBills]

59 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Outside of Tyreek Hill, there aren't really any great examples of the Chiefs being willing to move on from their top players.  It was really a one-time thing, because they desperately needed to upgrade the O-Line and simply couldn't afford to keep him.  If the Bills were forced to trade away one of their best players in middle of their Super Bowl window, the fans would have screamed about bad roster management.  And in moving on from Hill, their WR group has been amongst the NFL's worst over the past two years.  The lack of weapons almost did them in this year.

 

People are looking at the Bills cap situation vs. the Chiefs cap situation, and acting like they have a superior front office because they have more space.  The difference is that Kansas City's pending free agents are Chris Jones and La'Jarius Sneed, along with their starting Left Tackle Donovan Smith, their other starting Defensive Tackle Derrick Nnadi and starting linebacker Willie Gay.  Along with another 15-20 depth players.  Not remotely the same situation.

 

 

 

The Bills have been able to develop AND keep the majority of their best players.

I'm not sure why we are applauding their cap management, because they are possibly losing their best cornerback.

 

How much credit do the Bills get for getting a 3rd Round comp pick for Tremaine Edmunds, while at the same time upgrading him with Terrell Bernard?

 

 

 

 

 

If the ball doesn't bounce off Darrel Luter's foot during the punt return, the Chiefs do not win the Super Bowl.  

If Zay Flowers stretches one more inch before fumbling into the endzone, the Chiefs do not win the AFC.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not trying to diminish the Chiefs accomplishment.  They are a great team and deserve the Lombardi.  But neither of those plays had anything to do with superior roster/cap management over the rest of the NFL.

 

The Chiefs front office should get credit for putting together a roster consistently good enough to compete for the Super Bowl every year.  That isn't easy.  But so should the Buffalo Bills, 49ers, Ravens, etc.  The difference between those teams is literally 1-2 lucky plays.

 

If you look at them through these last handful of years you’d see that they have let a lot of home grown talent walked without tying up huge cap space to retain them. Instead they opted to replaced those talents with cheaper draft picks. ‘Possibly losing their best corner’ is not a new thing for them. They let Charvarious Ward walked after the first Superbowl so they wouldn’t have to pay him the big contract. They replaced him with Snead. Now they have McDuffie in line if Snead leaves as well as others they’re grooming.
 

That’s the difference between them and the Bills. You’re touting the Bills for keeping their picks but at what price? Add in some of the dead money big FA contracts like Von and I’m not sure how you don’t see the difference in the two FO’s. 
 

When you bring up lucky plays you are trying to diminish what they’ve accomplished. If this was a one off Superbowl you’d have a better argument. But this is the second leg of a back-to-back and 3rd out of 4 Superbowls they’ve played in. No amount of lucky bounces can account for that level of success. And they’re still in a better cap situation than the Bills with a younger team primed to chase more championships. But yeah keep thinking the difference between the two FO’s ‘is literally 1-2 lucky plays’.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Outside of Tyreek Hill, there aren't really any great examples of the Chiefs being willing to move on from their top players.

 

they did it w Ward who was their best DB at the time iirc

moved off Frank Clark at the right moment

also got Mathieu to shore up a soft defensive unit and won a SB, he got ProBowls+All-Pro during his time there but they were smart and let him walk when his deal was up

 

these were all top guys at their positions at the time

[strive_for_five_guy]

6 hours ago, Success said:

 

Kind of just creates another need for them, too.  They're already short good WR's.

 

MVS kind of sucks though, in my opinion.  If I have $12M to spend or a few more bucks, I’d spend it on a guy like Gabe Davis before MVS.

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

MVS kind of sucks though, in my opinion.  If I have $12M to spend or a few more bucks, I’d spend it on a guy like Gabe Davis before MVS.

except he showed up in the playoffs with important catches here, in Balt and in SB

 

I have no idea what his market value will be perceived as.  I’ve never cared for the guy though

Edited February 29 by Warriorspikes51

[mjt328]

14 hours ago, 90sBills said:

If you look at them through these last handful of years you’d see that they have let a lot of home grown talent walked without tying up huge cap space to retain them. Instead they opted to replaced those talents with cheaper draft picks. ‘Possibly losing their best corner’ is not a new thing for them. They let Charvarious Ward walked after the first Superbowl so they wouldn’t have to pay him the big contract. They replaced him with Snead. Now they have McDuffie in line if Snead leaves as well as others they’re grooming.
 

That’s the difference between them and the Bills. You’re touting the Bills for keeping their picks but at what price? Add in some of the dead money big FA contracts like Von and I’m not sure how you don’t see the difference in the two FO’s. 
 

When you bring up lucky plays you are trying to diminish what they’ve accomplished. If this was a one off Superbowl you’d have a better argument. But this is the second leg of a back-to-back and 3rd out of 4 Superbowls they’ve played in. No amount of lucky bounces can account for that level of success. And they’re still in a better cap situation than the Bills with a younger team primed to chase more championships. But yeah keep thinking the difference between the two FO’s ‘is literally 1-2 lucky plays’.

 

I guess we can disagree, but I never considered Charvarious Ward more than an average cornerback.  To me, he would be the equivalent of us letting Gabe Davis walk this offseason.  Not really a key piece or type of player they would sorely miss.  Someone else also mentioned Frank Clark, who was already over the hill when they let him leave.  He didn't even sign with anyone until late October, and even then signed for just over the vet minimum.

 

Which homegrown players do you believe the Bills SHOULD have let walk instead of paying them in free agency?  Tre White?  Matt Milano?  Dion Dawkins?  Taron Johnson?  Ed Oliver?  All of these players were great re-signings by the Bills.  And looking back, all could even be considered bargains compared to their market value had they actually hit the market.  They let Tremaine Edmunds walk and it turned out to be 100% the right decision.

 

Again.  The Bills have literally ONE major free agent contract we can realistically complain about.  Von Miller.  And based on 6-7 years of trends, it's pretty obvious that signing was very uncharacteristic by Brandon Beane.  This is not something he or the Bills regularly do.  He tried making a big splash to get over the hump, and then went right back to a low-key/conservative signings in 2023. 

 

That's why I think these complaints are ridiculous.  The way Beane manages his salary cap and the way Brett Veach runs his are actually VERY similar.  Both try building through the draft first.  Both are usually low-key in free agency, with the occasional exception (a great example for the Chiefs is Joe Thuney).  Both do their best to re-sign their best players, but won't break the bank to do it.  Both are forced yearly to restructure contracts to make cap space.  

 

The Bills-Chiefs are literally a toss-up over the last 3 seasons.  Every single game between them has come down to 1-2 plays.  It sucks that we keep coming out on the short-hand in the playoffs.  But that doesn't prove their team OR their front office is vastly superior.  It's much much closer than anyone wants to give us credit for.

 

[90sBills]

5 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I guess we can disagree, but I never considered Charvarious Ward more than an average cornerback.  To me, he would be the equivalent of us letting Gabe Davis walk this offseason.  Not really a key piece or type of player they would sorely miss.  Someone else also mentioned Frank Clark, who was already over the hill when they let him leave.  He didn't even sign with anyone until late October, and even then signed for just over the vet minimum.

 

Which homegrown players do you believe the Bills SHOULD have let walk instead of paying them in free agency?  Tre White?  Matt Milano?  Dion Dawkins?  Taron Johnson?  Ed Oliver?  All of these players were great re-signings by the Bills.  And looking back, all could even be considered bargains compared to their market value had they actually hit the market.  They let Tremaine Edmunds walk and it turned out to be 100% the right decision.

 

Again.  The Bills have literally ONE major free agent contract we can realistically complain about.  Von Miller.  And based on 6-7 years of trends, it's pretty obvious that signing was very uncharacteristic by Brandon Beane.  This is not something he or the Bills regularly do.  He tried making a big splash to get over the hump, and then went right back to a low-key/conservative signings in 2023. 

 

That's why I think these complaints are ridiculous.  The way Beane manages his salary cap and the way Brett Veach runs his are actually VERY similar.  Both try building through the draft first.  Both are usually low-key in free agency, with the occasional exception (a great example for the Chiefs is Joe Thuney).  Both do their best to re-sign their best players, but won't break the bank to do it.  Both are forced yearly to restructure contracts to make cap space.  

 

The Bills-Chiefs are literally a toss-up over the last 3 seasons.  Every single game between them has come down to 1-2 plays.  It sucks that we keep coming out on the short-hand in the playoffs.  But that doesn't prove their team OR their front office is vastly superior.  It's much much closer than anyone wants to give us credit for.

 

Your feelings about Ward might have the benefit of hindsight. At the time he was KC’s best corner. He signed a 3 yr 42mil deal with SF and is their best man-to-man coverage db today. KC’s FO had drafted enough quality DB’s for that move to be possible. Despite your opinion of him there was a big money market for him when KC let him go.

 

Why didn’t you include Dawson Knox in your examples? Making him one of the top paid TE’s in the league while not getting that kind of production. Then followed up with drafting a 1st round tight end. If you think those were good moves then I don’t know what to say.

 

While not home grown Bills did give Hyde and Poyer their first real contracts. Those were great moves. What’s not so great is having to extend them to the point of both being 30+ and over their shelf value. Compared that to KC’s talented, and cheap, secondary group and you really can’t even compare.

 

Beane and Veach are very similar in that they’re both GMs’ for NFL teams. One guy hands out contracts to aging vets externally and internally while the other loads up on young talented cheap labor to build his team. So yeah agree to disagree that they’re similar.

 

I won’t address the on the field results stuffs because it’s just sad at this point. 
 

[damj]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:58 PM, mannc said:

They have a plan…

And we have The Process!

 

The results speak for themselves

[beebe]

36 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Your feelings about Ward might have the benefit of hindsight. At the time he was KC’s best corner. He signed a 3 yr 42mil deal with SF and is their best man-to-man coverage db today. KC’s FO had drafted enough quality DB’s for that move to be possible. Despite your opinion of him there was a big money market for him when KC let him go.

 

Why didn’t you include Dawson Knox in your examples? Making him one of the top paid TE’s in the league while not getting that kind of production. Then followed up with drafting a 1st round tight end. If you think those were good moves then I don’t know what to say.

 

While not home grown Bills did give Hyde and Poyer their first real contracts. Those were great moves. What’s not so great is having to extend them to the point of both being 30+ and over their shelf value. Compared that to KC’s talented, and cheap, secondary group and you really can’t even compare.

 

Beane and Veach are very similar in that they’re both GMs’ for NFL teams. One guy hands out contracts to aging vets externally and internally while the other loads up on young talented cheap labor to build his team. So yeah agree to disagree that they’re similar.

 

I won’t address the on the field results stuffs because it’s just sad at this point. 
 

 

Biggest difference between Veach and Beane is arguably the philosophies of the head coaches they work with. Andy is unafraid to throw rookies and young players onto the field and let them work through their mistakes during the regular season, even if the results aren't pretty, in hopes of developing them and/or building depth that has been tested come playoff time. McDermott has a clear preference for veteran players who are closer to a finished product, and often times (not always) doesn't let young guys play through their mistakes. 

 

Both GM's are pretty damn good at roster building, each with consensus top five teams three plus years in a row. 

[st pete gogolak]

I’m not a cap guru, so I’m trying to figure out how the Bills got to where they are.  Allen, obviously.  Miller, Diggs and to a lesser extent Knox?  I find it hard to second guess Diggs deal. Miller has at least some bad luck attached to his deal, although counter is you just don’t give that kind of deal to a 33 year old.  Can a couple of bad deals put you in cap hell?  What am I missing?

[90sBills]

16 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Biggest difference between Veach and Beane is arguably the philosophies of the head coaches they work with. Andy is unafraid to throw rookies and young players onto the field and let them work through their mistakes during the regular season, even if the results aren't pretty, in hopes of developing them and/or building depth that has been tested come playoff time. McDermott has a clear preference for veteran players who are closer to a finished product, and often times (not always) doesn't let young guys play through their mistakes. 

 

Both GM's are pretty damn good at roster building, each with consensus top five teams three plus years in a row. 

Coaching is definitely part of the equation. Although McD has soften on that stance compared to a few years ago. I also think McD has a lot of influence over Beane with roster building. I’m not sure if that’s the case in KC. 

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Your feelings about Ward might have the benefit of hindsight. At the time he was KC’s best corner. He signed a 3 yr 42mil deal with SF and is their best man-to-man coverage db today. KC’s FO had drafted enough quality DB’s for that move to be possible. Despite your opinion of him there was a big money market for him when KC let him go.

 

Why didn’t you include Dawson Knox in your examples? Making him one of the top paid TE’s in the league while not getting that kind of production. Then followed up with drafting a 1st round tight end. If you think those were good moves then I don’t know what to say.

 

While not home grown Bills did give Hyde and Poyer their first real contracts. Those were great moves. What’s not so great is having to extend them to the point of both being 30+ and over their shelf value. Compared that to KC’s talented, and cheap, secondary group and you really can’t even compare.

 

Beane and Veach are very similar in that they’re both GMs’ for NFL teams. One guy hands out contracts to aging vets externally and internally while the other loads up on young talented cheap labor to build his team. So yeah agree to disagree that they’re similar.

 

I won’t address the on the field results stuffs because it’s just sad at this point. 
 

Veach got a big benefit from the draft haul the Chiefs got for trading Tyreek Hill...who is an uncommon talent with his speed (albeit also a bit obnoxious).  Hill initiated the whole thing with his ego and public comments.  And of course the Dolphins saw the shiny object and gave up that draft haul.  It would be interesting to see if the Bills had a "shiny object" not named Josh Allen, that was making public demands, what Beane would do.  

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, st pete gogolak said:

I’m not a cap guru, so I’m trying to figure out how the Bills got to where they are.  Allen, obviously.  Miller, Diggs and to a lesser extent Knox?  I find it hard to second guess Diggs deal. Miller has at least some bad luck attached to his deal, although counter is you just don’t give that kind of deal to a 33 year old.  Can a couple of bad deals put you in cap hell?  What am I missing?

Are they really in “cap hell” though?

 

Things might be a bit tight this year … and even in 2025 if they have to move on from both Miller and possibly Diggs ..

 

But come 2026 and the Cap north of $300m they should be fine after a couple of years of belt tightening…

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Veach got a big benefit from the draft haul the Chiefs got for trading Tyreek Hill...who is an uncommon talent with his speed (albeit also a bit obnoxious).  Hill initiated the whole thing with his ego and public comments.  And of course the Dolphins saw the shiny object and gave up that draft haul.  It would be interesting to see if the Bills had a "shiny object" not named Josh Allen, that was making public demands, what Beane would do.  

we did, his name is Tre White

 

and when his value was at his absolute peak we decided to make him the highest paid DB in the league

[Chaos]

22 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Are they really in “cap hell” though?

 

Things might be a bit tight this year … and even in 2025 if they have to move on from both Miller and possibly Diggs ..

 

But come 2026 and the Cap north of $300m they should be fine after a couple of years of belt tightening…

Its all relative. Main competetion, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens are all in better cap shape.  

[jkeerie]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

we did, his name is Tre White

 

and when his value was at his absolute peak we decided to make him the highest paid DB in the league

I don't recall Tre White making public demands to be the highest paid corner in the league.

[GoBills808]

Just now, jkeerie said:

I don't recall Tre White making public demands to be the highest paid corner in the league.

Neither do I. But I don't think that has any real bearing on whether or not the way this FO hands out deals is smart.