Chiefs-Bills trade that landed Kansas City Patrick Mahomes

[Mat68]

Kyle Shannahan and John Lynch do not get the blow back  they should.  

[MRW]

Really thinking it might be time for a KC subforum.

[SaulGoodman]

17 minutes ago, LEBills said:

The Chiefs won 53 games in the 5 seasons prior to Mahomes starting (the early Andy Reid Era). Mahomes was throwing to Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce in 2018

 

The Bills did make the playoffs in 2017 with a -56 point differential (good for 22nd out of 32 teams). Josh was throwing to Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and Robert Foster.

 

If a talent-depleted team led by Tyrod Taylor reached the playoffs, McD must be better than many think. 

[Success]

Just now, SaulGoodman said:

 

If a talent-depleted team led by Tyrod Taylor reached the playoffs, McD must be better than many think. 

 

That's your sample size?

 

We needed a miracle play by Andy Dalton & Tyler Boyd to even have a chance that year.

 

[SaulGoodman]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's your sample size?

 

We needed a miracle play by Andy Dalton & Tyler Boyd to even have a chance that year.

 

 

As opposed to the people who judge him based on one or two decisions from a few games?

 

[LEBills]

6 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

If a talent-depleted team led by Tyrod Taylor reached the playoffs, McD must be better than many think. 

McD is a good coach, which wasn’t my point. But Andy Reid is unquestionably better and specializes in Mahomes side of the ball.

[Success]

2 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

As opposed to the people who judge him based on one or two decisions from a few games?

 

 

Who does that?

 

You're on a board of fans that have had a chance to watch everything McDermott has done.

 

To make a blanket conclusion about him because he backed into the playoffs one year w/ Tyrod Taylor? Not very scientific.  I mean, what's your premise?  Allen & Mahomes have had equal circumstances every step of the way, so obviously Mahomes is way better based on results?

 

[Billl]

29 minutes ago, MRW said:

Really thinking it might be time for a KC subforum.

or a Bills subforum.

[Peter]

As I have said before, if we did not have the good fortune to draft Josh and Josh developing the way he did, McD would forever be know as the idiot that traded the opportunity to pick Mahomes who not only is a generational QB but also a thorn in our side every year.

 

Also, without Josh, McD would have been fired long ago as well as being remembered for making this trade.

 

McD and we should thank our lucky stars that we have Josh.

[SaulGoodman]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

Who does that?

 

You're on a board of fans that have had a chance to watch everything McDermott has done.

 

To make a blanket conclusion about him because he backed into the playoffs one year w/ Tyrod Taylor? Not very scientific.  I mean, what's your premise?  Allen & Mahomes have had equal circumstances every step of the way, so obviously Mahomes is way better based on results?

 

 

Are you saying that the narrative about McDermott wouldn't be vastly different if a couple plays/decisions were reversed?

 

And no, I don't think Allen walked into the perfect circumstances. But that doesn't mean he'd have won as much or more as Mahomes if the roles were reversed, as many claim. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Kansas City won the trade. Without question. They drafted the best QB in football. 

 

But the Bills did about as good a job losing a trade as you could ever do. An all pro corner and then a pick that helped them land the 2nd best QB in football the following year.

 

 

Incorrect.

 

They got Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds for the only notable draft pick value that they acquired for the Patrick Mahomes pick trade.    

 

People have been mis-stating for years that the Bills were able to move up for Allen with draft pick capital acquired in the Mahomes pick trade...........surprised you are one of them.

      

[Mr. WEO]

this again...

[Success]

10 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Are you saying that the narrative about McDermott wouldn't be vastly different if a couple plays/decisions were reversed?

 

And no, I don't think Allen walked into the perfect circumstances. But that doesn't mean he'd have won as much or more as Mahomes if the roles were reversed, as many claim. 

 

I 100% believe Allen would be as successful as Mahomes if he was playing for KC.  If not more..

 

What now?

 

Edited February 24 by Success

[Returntoglory]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

this again...

There is not another post with this subject. 

[Billl]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Incorrect.

 

They got Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds for the only notable draft pick value that they acquired for the Patrick Mahomes pick trade.    

 

People have been mis-stating for years that the Bills were able to move up for Allen with draft pick capital acquired in the Mahomes pick trade...........surprised you are one of them.

      

Yeah, but just because they didn’t use that specific pick doesn’t mean that having the extra draft capital didn’t allow it to happen.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

or a Bills subforum.

 

 

Yeah it's ridiculous but apparently we have a lot of finish-line fans who want to win a SB immediately so they can hurry up and die.

 

The Chiefs obsession is annoying but Chiefs fans have been there with the Broncos as Denver was reaching 8 SB's and winning 3 since KC had last been to one.    I'll never forget when a half dead Peyton Manning beat KC in KC in the closing seconds(on the way to another SB) in his last season.    Before that Elway was totally in Chiefs fans heads.  

 

The Bills all-timer is still the hate for the Dolphins from the 1970's thru the early 2000's.   Because there was an actual rivalry there with divisional races and playoff matchups etc..  The New England domination was much greater but it's only second because there was no rivalry.   Buffalo never even won a meaningful game in the regular season against NE with Brady there, let alone a playoff game.   KC obsession is newer but gaining fast because there is an actual rivalry with lot's of regular season wins and narrow playoff losses.  

 

Most of the obsessing is just based in ignorance.   They can't really understand why the team keeps losing so they think it's something bigger and means more than it does.   After a nearly 50 year stretch of KC being the only team in the AFC West to not play in a Super Bowl they get Patrick Mahomes and all of a sudden all KC fans can see it maybe wasn't a curse or conspiracy or some inherent organizational flaw after all.

[Success]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah it's ridiculous but apparently we have a lot of finish-line fans who want to win a SB immediately so they can hurry up and die.

 

The Chiefs obsession is annoying but Chiefs fans have been there with the Broncos as Denver was reaching 8 SB's and winning 3 since KC had last been to one.    I'll never forget when a half dead Peyton Manning beat KC in KC in the closing seconds(on the way to another SB) in his last season.    Before that Elway was totally in Chiefs fans heads.  

 

The Bills all-timer is still the hate for the Dolphins from the 1970's thru the early 2000's.   Because there was an actual rivalry there with divisional races and playoff matchups etc..  The New England domination was much greater but it's only second because there was no rivalry.   Buffalo never even won a meaningful game in the regular season against NE with Brady there, let alone a playoff game.   KC obsession is newer but gaining fast because there is an actual rivalry with lot's of regular season wins and narrow playoff losses.  

 

Most of the obsessing is just based in ignorance.   They can't really understand why the team keeps losing so they think it's something bigger and means more than it does.   After a nearly 50 year stretch of KC being the only team in the AFC West to not play in a Super Bowl they get Patrick Mahomes and all of a sudden all KC fans can see it maybe wasn't a curse or conspiracy or some inherent organizational flaw after all.

 

The Fitz/Fred Jackson/4 INT game!

 

That game was the most exciting moment in 2 decades for me as a fan.

 

But, otherwise, the bolded is sadly correct.

 

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

There is not another post with this subject. 

you didn’t even try…

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yeah, but just because they didn’t use that specific pick doesn’t mean that having the extra draft capital didn’t allow it to happen.

 

 

It literally means exactly that.

 

Obviously if they had drafted Patrick Mahomes they wouldn't have drafted Josh Allen.   

 

That's the only way it helped them get Josh Allen though.

 

Obviously the problem is that they handed a conference rival with a stable coaching staff and roster a franchise QB just as the Bills were simultaneously turning over their own regime and roster in the name of "process".    Even at the time those of us who believed in Mahomes as a prospect could see what was being set up.    Who you trade with is extremely important.   If Mahomes ends up in the NFC and the Bills still get Allen..........the Bills might be the one's winning the AFC every year.

[beebe]

36 minutes ago, Peter said:

As I have said before, if we did not have the good fortune to draft Josh and Josh developing the way he did, McD would forever be know as the idiot that traded the opportunity to pick Mahomes who not only is a generational QB but also a thorn in our side every year.

 

Also, without Josh, McD would have been fired long ago as well as being remembered for making this trade.

 

McD and we should thank our lucky stars that we have Josh.

 

Buffalo's defensive ranks since 2018...

 

Points allowed: 

2018 - 18th

2019 - 2nd

2020 - 16th

2021: 1st

2022: 2nd

2023: 4th

 

Defensive DVOA: 

2018 - 2nd

2019 - 6th

2020 - 11th

2021 - 1st

2022 - 2nd

2023 - 12th

 

In points, McDermott's D has outperformed the offense four times, tied once, and was worse once (2020). 

 

In DVOA, McDermott's D has outperformed the offense three times, tied once, and was worse twice (2020, 2023). 

 

Overall, if you take the six seasons cumulatively over the entire league, no defense in the NFL has finished better than the Bills in defensive DVOA. Obviously, McDermott's playoff failures vs the Chiefs are well documented, but he would have for sure held his own with a league-average QB.