Matt Araiza signs with Chiefs

[DrPJax]

4 hours ago, MRW said:

 

Steal a game or two? Has there ever been a punter who did that?

Read some raiders history.   Start w a guy named guy and go from there to the polish bomber. 

[Zerovoltz]

One more thought on Ariaza from a KC perspective (IMO)

 

I've seen some posts here knocking Araiza's lack of skill at directional punting/pinning teams in deep.

 

I would ask, If you are punting from your own 50 and you fail to pin it in, and it's a touchback...how many yards did you lose by failing to pin it deep?  The touchback puts it at the 25.  A returner may have fair caught it at the 10...maybe even the 15 if he doesn't see a return available..but lets say he fair catches at the 10 as most are taught to let anything inside the 10, just bounce.  That's 15 yards it's costing by having the punter fail to pin it deep.

 

Now ask if you are the same team punting from your own 25 and your punter blasts a 60 yard punt with hangtime.  Let's assume that the hangtime is good enough to compell a fair catch.  That's going to be around the opponents own 15-20 yard line...completey and utterly flip the field.  

 

In both cases the other team is looking at a 75-80 yard drive.  

 

I'll take the guy who can make the other team have to go 80 yards after I've had to punt from my own 25 yard line.

[BillsPride12]

8 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

The Bills do a fine job of embarrassing themselves in front of the Nation on an annual basis as it is.  I don't think the punter situation would have made it worse than it already is

You clearly don't remember the backlash the Bills got when this all went down 

[boyst]

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

 

I have a question as I haven’t followed the case closely for a while. Was the pretext phone call also fake?

there was a few text messages, including getting tested. i don't recall the specifics. but much of everything was negated by the fact that she claimed to be over the age of consent + could not directly recall him being in the room or at the party at the time.

[Niagara Dude]

8 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

One more thought on Ariaza from a KC perspective (IMO)

 

I've seen some posts here knocking Araiza's lack of skill at directional punting/pinning teams in deep.

 

I would ask, If you are punting from your own 50 and you fail to pin it in, and it's a touchback...how many yards did you lose by failing to pin it deep?  The touchback puts it at the 25.  A returner may have fair caught it at the 10...maybe even the 15 if he doesn't see a return available..but lets say he fair catches at the 10 as most are taught to let anything inside the 10, just bounce.  That's 15 yards it's costing by having the punter fail to pin it deep.

 

Now ask if you are the same team punting from your own 25 and your punter blasts a 60 yard punt with hangtime.  Let's assume that the hangtime is good enough to compell a fair catch.  That's going to be around the opponents own 15-20 yard line...completey and utterly flip the field.  

 

In both cases the other team is looking at a 75-80 yard drive.  

 

I'll take the guy who can make the other team have to go 80 yards after I've had to punt from my own 25 yard line.

Sam Martin is not a punter with a strong leg and a big reason why the Bills special gave up some big returns last season was the lack of hang time.  Too many kicks were low line drives that gave returners a chance.  Martin needs to be replaced with a rookie or cheap labour and Beane needs to stop finding these retreads from other teams and just draft one in one of his many late round picks.  The Bills wasted too much money on Special teams last season and they were not very good.  A punter with a great leg fixes a lot of the problems

[CoudyBills]

15 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Amen b0rther!1! The Chiefs are a bacon of hope in a sea of cowardess. 

Mommy, I love 🥓 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

One more thought on Ariaza from a KC perspective (IMO)

 

I've seen some posts here knocking Araiza's lack of skill at directional punting/pinning teams in deep.

 

I would ask, If you are punting from your own 50 and you fail to pin it in, and it's a touchback...how many yards did you lose by failing to pin it deep?  The touchback puts it at the 25.  A returner may have fair caught it at the 10...maybe even the 15 if he doesn't see a return available..but lets say he fair catches at the 10 as most are taught to let anything inside the 10, just bounce.  That's 15 yards it's costing by having the punter fail to pin it deep.

 

Now ask if you are the same team punting from your own 25 and your punter blasts a 60 yard punt with hangtime.  Let's assume that the hangtime is good enough to compell a fair catch.  That's going to be around the opponents own 15-20 yard line...completey and utterly flip the field.  

 

In both cases the other team is looking at a 75-80 yard drive.  

 

I'll take the guy who can make the other team have to go 80 yards after I've had to punt from my own 25 yard line.

 

 

The issue with Araiza is his hang time isn't great either. Hang time and directional punting are both weaknesses. What he does have is one of the strongest punting legs I've ever seen. I don't rule out him kicking a touchback even punting from his own 25 but there is going to be some risk with him IMO because he is a line drive punter and when you leave those short.... that is when big returns happen. 

 

All of which I was saying when we drafted him by the way... my comment at the time in my 2022 Draft day 3 debrief thread was: "I don't scout punters but obviously it was a need position and Matt Arazia certainly has a huge leg. The videos I have seen hang time would be somewhat of a concern and while when he catches one properly he likely takes returns out of the picture he only has to slightly mis-hit one and a big return becomes a risk because he almost line drives them. Getting him and the coverage unit in sync in camp and pre-season will matter."

[UKBillFan]

Yet again the Chiefs show where they're better than the Bills. Great move by then, and no idea why the Bills didn't go back in for him. Haven't really read the thread in full so not sure if Araiza rejected them over his treatment through the allegations. Of all the teams... but good move by the Chiefs and, unless he turned them down, the Bills caught short again.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I was just curious and looked it up.

 

We had the 28th Best Special Teams last season.

 

Well done. 

[TheWeatherMan]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not at punter it isn't.

 

You can asses all you want that Ariza is not an upgrade, but until he has played a full regular season you have no data points to definitively say that he isn’t.  

[Bob Jones]

14 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Yet again the Chiefs show where they're better than the Bills. Great move by then, and no idea why the Bills didn't go back in for him. Haven't really read the thread in full so not sure if Araiza rejected them over his treatment through the allegations. Of all the teams... but good move by the Chiefs and, unless he turned them down, the Bills caught short again.

A bunch of people in here have already speculated that he may not have wanted to come back to the Bills because they showed him zero loyalty, and immediately kicked him to the curb at the behest of the pitchfork wielding mob. That sounds plausible to me.

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Sam Martin is not a punter with a strong leg and a big reason why the Bills special gave up some big returns last season was the lack of hang time.  Too many kicks were low line drives that gave returners a chance.  Martin needs to be replaced with a rookie or cheap labour and Beane needs to stop finding these retreads from other teams and just draft one in one of his many late round picks.  The Bills wasted too much money on Special teams last season and they were not very good.  A punter with a great leg fixes a lot of the problems

 

Yea Martin did not have a good year. Of course the plan WAS to have a rookie deal guy with a big leg in Araiza before the incident. I am much less of a "must have a big leg" guy and much more of a directional punting guy but Martin struggled in both elements for much of 2023. A big part of the reason their special teams (particularly their coverage units) took a step back last year was the loss of Taiwan Jones. He was genuinely elite at what he did. I know fans hated him because he offered nothing as a running back but the Bills tried multiple guys at the other gunner spot opposite Neal last year and none of them performed close to Jones. They dropped 10 spots in both kick and punt coverage rankings - more than 2 yards worse per kick return and more than 3 yards worse per punt return on average. 

Just now, TheWeatherMan said:

You can asses all you want that Ariza is not an upgrade, but until he has played a full regular season you have no data points to definitively say that he isn’t.  

 

This is true. But he'd need to be basically the best in the league. Is that possible? Yea. Is it likely? Not at all. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

59 minutes ago, boyst said:

there was a few text messages, including getting tested. i don't recall the specifics. but much of everything was negated by the fact that she claimed to be over the age of consent + could not directly recall him being in the room or at the party at the time.

I’m asking about the pretext call. Did that happen? There were so many levels to this. Remember Brandon Beane said certain things they were told by Araiza weren’t true. 
 

I dont think the Bills thought he was guilty. It seems like Araiza left out key details of the investigation and Beane felt lied to.

Edited February 23 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Arkady Renko]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

there was a few text messages, including getting tested. i don't recall the specifics. but much of everything was negated by the fact that she claimed to be over the age of consent + could not directly recall him being in the room or at the party at the time.

I don’t think there were any text messages about being tested.  There was a transcript of a call where he seemed to say it would be a good idea to get tested.  Could be taken different ways.  People are saying it means he was admitting he has a STD.  Not sure that’s fully clear.  

Edited February 23 by Arkady Renko

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

I don’t think there were any text messages about being tested.  There was a transcript of a call where he seemed to say it would be a good idea to get tested.  Could be taken different ways.  People are saying it means he was admitting he has a STD.  Not sure that’s fully clear.  

There were so many layers to this that I don’t understand why people were shocked the Bills would eliminate the distraction. Also remember they were the Super Bowl favorites, so all eyes on them.

 

And sad to say he was just a rookie punter. The NfL probably should’ve put him on the exempt list until it all concluded.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There were so many levels to this. Remember Brandon Beane said certain things they were told by Araiza weren’t true. 
 

I dont think the Bills thought he was guilty. It seems like Araiza left out key details of the investigation and Beane felt lied to.

 

And that is why a reunion was never likely. It wasn't about his guilt or innocence. It was about the fact that the trust was broken. 

 

It's a shame because I think what he likely did is panic when this blew up and rather than telling the truth and admitting to the things he had done but steadfastly defending himself on the things he hadn't he went for denial initially. It is understandable. I really feel for the kid. I was in the "don't rush to judgment" camp but the social media world makes it really difficult and put him and the Bills in an extremely difficult position. 

[BarleyNY]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And that is why a reunion was never likely. It wasn't about his guilt or innocence. It was about the fact that the trust was broken. 

 

It's a shame because I think what he likely did is panic when this blew up and rather than telling the truth and admitting to the things he had done but steadfastly defending himself on the things he hadn't he went for denial initially. It is understandable. I really feel for the kid. I was in the "don't rush to judgment" camp but the social media world makes it really difficult and put him and the Bills in an extremely difficult position. 

 

Yeah, you can’t take a player back if he’s lied to you. You never know what else is lurking. This was still a big misstep by the organization though. Even if the Bills truly believed he was innocent, drafting him was inviting a lot of unnecessary distraction. You can’t have that on a team vying for a SB. The upside wasn’t even for something of much value. For a FQB, sure, no problem. But for a PUNTER? No punter in the league was ever worth that. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Yeah, you can’t take a player back if he’s lied to you. You never know what else is lurking. This was still a big misstep by the organization though. Even if the Bills truly believed he was innocent, drafting him was inviting a lot of unnecessary distraction. You can’t have that on a team vying for a SB. The upside wasn’t even for something of much value. For a FQB, sure, no problem. But for a PUNTER? No punter in the league was ever worth that. 

 

Yea you hope your due diligence team picks this sort of stuff up. 

[boyst]

45 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m asking about the pretext call. Did that happen? There were so many levels to this. Remember Brandon Beane said certain things they were told by Araiza weren’t true. 
 

I dont think the Bills thought he was guilty. It seems like Araiza left out key details of the investigation and Beane felt lied to.

i don't think we will ever truly know what was and was not true by the standards of Beane. while i do trust beane not to have blatantly lied or bold faced lied i do not trust the media of buffalo - short of Wawrow.

 

i also don't think araiza knew all the details of the scope and the media's presentation going full nancy grace did not help him to be able to put out every fire.

40 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

I don’t think there were any text messages about being tested.  There was a transcript of a call where he seemed to say it would be a good idea to get tested.  Could be taken different ways.  People are saying it means he was admitting he has a STD.  Not sure that’s fully clear.  

i do not fully trust transcipts of calls unless they are digitally made or recorded. a recount of a conversation is almost never accurate.

30 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There were so many layers to this that I don’t understand why people were shocked the Bills would eliminate the distraction. Also remember they were the Super Bowl favorites, so all eyes on them.

 

And sad to say he was just a rookie punter. The NfL probably should’ve put him on the exempt list until it all concluded.

the nfl claimed the inability to punish him because under the nflpa rules he was not yet in the nfl when this happened. howeevr, i think the bills could have forced the hand of the league and even got araiza to agree to do a suspension pending results at a limited pay.

 

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And that is why a reunion was never likely. It wasn't about his guilt or innocence. It was about the fact that the trust was broken. 

 

It's a shame because I think what he likely did is panic when this blew up and rather than telling the truth and admitting to the things he had done but steadfastly defending himself on the things he hadn't he went for denial initially. It is understandable. I really feel for the kid. I was in the "don't rush to judgment" camp but the social media world makes it really difficult and put him and the Bills in an extremely difficult position. 

what is sad is we will never actually know what was said to know if there truly was a lie. i remember at the time thinking that Beane based this understanding ofa lie on media reports and the statements of the girls attorney. 

 

i cannot wait for the day when the practical pragmatic group can wallop the head of the knee jerkers.

[SoCal Deek]

Yikes! All I can add is that NEITHER the Bills or Chiefs are dependent on their punter to win them football games. They just aren’t.