The coaching mismatch

[Success]

Just now, SWATeam said:

The whole last drive he went into "hero mode."  Fumbled the ball that we were fortunate to recover.  Threw an ill conceived pass off the hands of a defender, and went for the kill shots instead of checking down to move the chains and milk the clock.  It is what it is.  That's what we get with Josh- a lot of brilliance, but he occasionally gets tight and spazzes out in the big moments.

 

Maybe the fumble play.  But it's incorrect to label the pass to Shakir "hero ball."

 

It was the play design, and Shakir was open.  You have to take that.

 

I kind of laugh when people argue that he should have checked down and gone for a TD more methodically to wind down the clock.  As though you can script that against a great D.  A lot of bad things can happen, and great D's tighten up the closer you get to the endzone.  That might have been the last open guy for a TD Allen could have seen.  From the 10 or 5 yard line, if we made it there, he might have had to force it.

 

You take the open guy when he's open.

 

Just now, FireChans said:

Poyer forced a fumble out of the end zone that saved the game from being a blowout and cost the Chiefs 7 points.

 

Fair.  That's one - and a bit of a wash because that was only there due to the fake punt.

 

Chris Jones made the game-sealing play.  There was nothing like that on the Bills side.

 

[90sBills]

27 minutes ago, Success said:

 

So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough?  He's holding McDermott back from greatness?

 

The conclusion is both of them need to improve in their respective areas for this team to win a superbowl.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Maybe the fumble play.  But it's incorrect to label the pass to Shakir "hero ball."

 

It was the play design, and Shakir was open.  You have to take that.

 

I kind of laugh when people argue that he should have checked down and gone for a TD more methodically to wind down the clock.  As though you can script that against a great D.  A lot of bad things can happen, and great D's tighten up the closer you get to the endzone.  That might have been the last open guy for a TD Allen could have seen.  From the 10 or 5 yard line, if we made it there, he might have had to force it.

 

You take the open guy when he's open.

 

 

Fair.  That's one - and a bit of a wash because that was only there due to the fake punt.

 

Chris Jones made the game-sealing play.  There was nothing like that on the Bills side.

 

Not really a wash. It was probably, statistically, the most impactful defensive play of the entire game by both teams.

 

Chris Jones causing an errant throw on second down in the redzone is the “game-sealing play?” What is this madness?

Edited February 22 by FireChans

[Gregg]

Just now, 90sBills said:

The conclusion is both of them need to improve in their respective areas for this team to win a superbowl.

 

I would also add Beane into the mix as well. Another weapon or two at WR will also help the Bills achieve their goal.

[Doc]

Everyone would take Reid and Spags over the Bills' OCs and McD.  Everyone. 

Edited February 22 by Doc

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, beebe said:

This was the first year the defense outplayed the offense in Mahomes' six years as starter. 

 

That's the point. The Chiefs made a concerted effort to prioritize the defense the past two offseasons and immediately got an elite defense that elevated its level of play in the playoffs. The Bills have prioritized defense over offense every year that Allen has been here and not once have they gotten elite defensive play that lasted through the playoffs.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

Andy Reid was Sean McDermott before Mahomes. 

 

Did you watch football before the year 2018?

[Ga boy]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's the point. The Chiefs made a concerted effort to prioritize the defense the past two offseasons and immediately got an elite defense that elevated its level of play in the playoffs. The Bills have prioritized defense over offense every year that Allen has been here and not once have they gotten elite defensive play that lasted through the playoffs.

I do credit front office for getting some players during the year to help us win the division.  Did KC or any team lose the likes of Milano, Von and Tre??  Even with those losses, we were just a couple plays from beating KC, and would’ve won the next two.

[beebe]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Did you watch football before the year 2018?

 

Andy was the classic "good regular season coach" just like McDermott. He gave boring platitudes about "process" and "sticking with it" at press conferences. He came up just short in the playoffs over and over again. He had issues with "clock management." He was constantly criticized for "abandoning the run." He blew big leads. Not just in Philly but also in Kansas City. In 2013, his first year with the Chiefs, they blew a 28-point lead in the playoffs to the Colts. In 2015, trailing by two scores to the Patriots, Andy oversaw a late scoring drive that basically wiped out the entire game clock and talked afterward about the "importance of calling the right plays." A year later, in 2016, Andy's Chiefs scored two touchdowns, gave up zero touchdowns, and still lost to the Steelers in the playoffs. The next year, in 2017, Andy's Chiefs lost to the Titans led by Marcus Mariota who completed a touchdown pass to ... Marcus Mariota. 

 

Andy was 11-13 in the playoffs. 

 

Many Chiefs fans wanted Andy out and wondered if he would ever win the big one. Philly fans laughed from afar, especially after Doug Pederson got them the Super Bowl Andy could never get: "Yep, that's the Andy Reid we knew. Playoff choker." 

 

Andy's entire reputation has been transformed since Mahomes arrived to town. 

Edited February 22 by beebe

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, beebe said:

Andy was the classic "good regular season coach" just like McDermott.

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

[Success]

Maybe we can have a separate forum dedicated to Mahomes worship?

 

[beebe]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

 

He had a 6-time pro bowler in McNabb who they drafted 2nd overall for that entire great Eagles run, the best defensive coordinator in the NFL, and they were always loading up their roster with skill position talent. 

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, beebe said:

He had a 6-time pro bowler in McNabb who they drafted 2nd overall for that entire great Eagles run

 

Lol thanks. What does this have to do with what I said? McNabb was not at Allen's level. Period.

 

Why is it that literally every Chiefs fan on here does nothing but troll the board with bad-faith arguments? Three Super Bowl wins isn't enough for you guys? It's never occurred to me to go to the Dolphins board and come up with all-time dumb arguments.

 

Edited February 22 by HappyDays

[Sweats]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Ok let’s go with that. He could’ve given himself a better throw to connect. The only pressure was from Chris Jones. Let’s say he stepped up and connected. TD with almost 2 minutes left and 2 TO for KC. Do you think we’re winning that game seeing KC’s run through the playoffs? That’s what I’m saying about making decisions that give your team the best chance of winning. Take the short. Pick up the first. KC would be forced to use their timeouts. Then use your heroics for the TD with little time left. You’re guaranteed a tie at worst. That’s the game awareness that great QBs need to be concerned with. 

 

 

 

 

You know, i agree 100% with this, however, in that moment, it's on coaching to tell JA to settle down, relax and take the short field one step at a time. We all know JA wants to go for the throat every minute of the game, however, he has to learn to pick his battles one set of downs at a time and that's on coaching to reel him in.

[90sBills]

23 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

You know, i agree 100% with this, however, in that moment, it's on coaching to tell JA to settle down, relax and take the short field one step at a time. We all know JA wants to go for the throat every minute of the game, however, he has to learn to pick his battles one set of downs at a time and that's on coaching to reel him in.

100%. I’d be surprised if they didn’t discussed this stuff on that final drive. But ultimately Allen has the trigger. 
 

If you haven’t seen the video of Brady talking to Allen about the merits of taking the easy plays go check it out. Allen’s expression on that video shows he doesn’t buy into that way of playing the game. We can only hope that his offseason would be spent partly dissecting and improving on this stuff. 

[beebe]

54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Lol thanks. What does this have to do with what I said? McNabb was not at Allen's level. Period.

 

Why is it that literally every Chiefs fan on here does nothing but troll the board with bad-faith arguments? Three Super Bowl wins isn't enough for you guys? It's never occurred to me to go to the Dolphins board and come up with all-time dumb arguments.

 

 

It's not a troll and it's not a bad faith argument. Just because you can never actually provide any substance in your posts and instead resort to getting personal doesn't mean the post is meritless. 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

 

McDermott: 73-41, 64% win percentage, 5-6 playoffs

Andy Reid (pre Mahomes): 183-120, 60.3% win percentage, 11-13 playoffs 

Marvin Lewis: 131-122, 51.8% win percentage, 0-7 playoffs

 

Marvin missed the playoffs (9 times) more often than he made it (7 times) and won his division four times in 16 years. 

Edited February 22 by beebe

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, beebe said:

it's not a bad faith argument.

 

Saying he was the "2nd overall pick" is the definition of bad faith argument. By that logic the Jets have done a better job investing in the QB position than the Bills or Chiefs over the past decade. It's a completely meaningless fact that you only threw out because you had nothing susbtantive to say.

 

Like I said, every Chiefs fan on here seemingly started watching football in 2018. I get it. Dynasties bring a lot of bandwagon fans on board.

 

Comparing Andy Reid's run in Philly with McDermott's run in Buffalo and expecting people to take you seriously. 🤣

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

So the answer is no you didn't watch football before 2018. Allow me to educate you. Andy Reid led a worse QB than Josh Allen to 5 conference Championships and 1 Super Bowl. The proper modern comparison for his run in Philly is Kyle Shanahan. Always getting to the finish line but never crossing. McDermott is the modern Marvin Lewis but with an elite QB instead of Andy Dalton.

Andy Reid didn’t have to face Brady in the same conference, much like Shanny doesn’t have to face Mahomes now.

 

Andy lost to Kerry Collins, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Brady, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers in the postseason. Some great names in there, and also some not so great names.

Marvin Lewis lost to Matt Schaub, Phil Rivers, Andrew Luck, Big Ben when Andy Dalton was a starter in the NFL. 

 

McD and Allen have lost to Mahomes 3 times and Burrow once (since Josh has been a franchise QB).

 

Shanny has lost to Brady (as OC) Mahomes, Mahomes, Hurts (when his QB got hurt).

your Marvin Lewis comparison fits far more to pre-Mahomes Andy than McD.

 

Shanny and McD are the better comparison. Losing to the greatest QB in the generation isn’t a crime. We face them before an NFC team ever will. 
 

Losing to Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins? Man, you’d have burned McD’s house down if he did that. 

[beebe]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Saying he was the "2nd overall pick" is the definition of bad faith argument. By that logic the Jets have done a better job investing in the QB position than the Bills or Chiefs over the past decade. It's a completely meaningless fact that you only threw out because you had nothing susbtantive to say.

 

Like I said, every Chiefs fan on here seemingly started watching football in 2018. I get it. Dynasties bring a lot of bandwagon fans on board.

 

Comparing Andy Reid's run in Philly with McDermott's run in Buffalo and expecting people to take you seriously. 🤣

 

McNabb was easily one of the 10 best quarterbacks of the 2000s. I don't know why you're acting like he's Jeff Garcia or Brad Johnson. He was highly regarded coming out of college and lived up to the hype. He's one of only nine Eagles in their history to have his jersey retired. It wasn't like he was an undrafted free agent.

 

Andy Reid/McNabb were a slightly more successful version of Sean McDermott/Josh Allen in the playoffs.

[Success]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Andy Reid didn’t have to face Brady in the same conference, much like Shanny doesn’t have to face Mahomes now.

 

Andy lost to Kerry Collins, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Brady, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers in the postseason. Some great names in there, and also some not so great names.

Marvin Lewis lost to Matt Schaub, Phil Rivers, Andrew Luck, Big Ben when Andy Dalton was a starter in the NFL. 

 

McD and Allen have lost to Mahomes 3 times and Burrow once (since Josh has been a franchise QB).

 

Shanny has lost to Brady (as OC) Mahomes, Mahomes, Hurts (when his QB got hurt).

your Marvin Lewis comparison fits far more to pre-Mahomes Andy than McD.

 

Shanny and McD are the better comparison. Losing to the greatest QB in the generation isn’t a crime. We face them before an NFC team ever will. 
 

Losing to Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson and Kerry Collins? Man, you’d have burned McD’s house down if he did that. 

 

I mean, it's really a stretch to say pre-Mahomes Reid was ANYTHING like McDermott.

 

He made a SB - and could have likely won if McNabb hadn't been sick & thrown 3 INT's.  He went to 5 AFCCG's.

 

We've been to one, in what seems like forever ago.