FireChans Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) Let’s play a quiz game. Which coach is being referred to with these quotes? “Whenever I think of ****, I think of Bill Cowher. People were so critical of Cowher not being able to win the big one, yet he was the head coach for 14 years in PIT and did a damn fine job with only a single SB appearance prior to his last season. Before 2005, his last season, he had only four losing seasons, five AFC Championship appearances, and the one Super Bowl appearance, losing to Dallas in 1995. Yet his reputation was a good coach who couldn't win when it counted.” “*** i think is a very good coach Monday thru Saturday, but awful coach on Sunday...and for the last couple of years has had some incredible puck luck during the season.” “Hes another Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer type. Beats bad teams all the time, loses the 5 or 6 toughies ends up 10-6 11-5 if the schedule smiled on him and exits when the playoffs start. If your not making the playoff he will get you there almost guaranteed then the frustration is your really not going anywhere and guess what they are not making the super bowl this year either” ”Have you watched him coach… in the playoffs? It's very entertaining. He's saves his best game day mismanagement for those games.” “He's a modern day Marty Schottenheimer, IMO. Solid but not spectacular. Very good regular season coach who usually fields a good, competitive squad but can't get over the hump in the playoffs.” If you guessed, “Andy Reid before he got the greatest QB in football,” you’re right! Johnny, tell them what they’ve won! Edited February 22 by FireChans 1 Quote
beebe Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Andy Reid was Sean McDermott before Mahomes. Tony Dungy was Sean McDermott before Peyton Manning. Bill Cowher was Sean McDermott before Big Ben. Sean McDermott is still Sean McDermott with Josh Allen. 1 1 1 Quote
Success Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Let’s play a quiz game. Which coach is being referred to with these quotes? “Whenever I think of ****, I think of Bill Cowher. People were so critical of Cowher not being able to win the big one, yet he was the head coach for 14 years in PIT and did a damn fine job with only a single SB appearance prior to his last season. Before 2005, his last season, he had only four losing seasons, five AFC Championship appearances, and the one Super Bowl appearance, losing to Dallas in 1995. Yet his reputation was a good coach who couldn't win when it counted.” “*** i think is a very good coach Monday thru Saturday, but awful coach on Sunday...and for the last couple of years has had some incredible puck luck during the season.” “Hes another Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer type. Beats bad teams all the time, loses the 5 or 6 toughies ends up 10-6 11-5 if the schedule smiled on him and exits when the playoffs start. If your not making the playoff he will get you there almost guaranteed then the frustration is your really not going anywhere and guess what they are not making the super bowl this year either” ”Have you watched him coach… in the playoffs? It's very entertaining. He's saves his best game day mismanagement for those games.” “He's a modern day Marty Schottenheimer, IMO. Solid but not spectacular. Very good regular season coach who usually fields a good, competitive squad but can't get over the hump in the playoffs.” If you guessed, “Andy Reid before he got the greatest QB in football,” you’re right! Johnny, tell them what they’ve won! Your assessment of Andy Reid as a mediocre HC who gives KC no advantage over the Bills is noted. Just now, beebe said: Andy Reid was Sean McDermott before Mahomes. Tony Dungy was Sean McDermott before Peyton Manning. Bill Cowher was Sean McDermott before Big Ben. Sean McDermott is still Sean McDermott with Josh Allen. So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough? He's holding McDermott back from greatness? Quote
FireChans Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Success said: Your assessment of Andy Reid as a mediocre HC who gives KC no advantage over the Bills is noted. So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough? He's holding McDermott back from greatness? I think he’s a good coach. Honestly a great coach. I also know he wasn’t “good enough” before he got the best QB in football. If the Bills had the best QB in football and couldn’t beat them, I would be yelling fire McD with the rest of ya. Quote
Success Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Just now, FireChans said: I think he’s a good coach. Honestly a great coach. I also know he wasn’t “good enough” before he got the best QB in football. If the Bills had the best QB in football and couldn’t beat them, I would be yelling fire McD with the rest of ya. Would you prefer we traded Allen for a ton of picks & start from scratch? Quote
FireChans Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Just now, Success said: Would you prefer we traded Allen for a ton of picks & start from scratch? Nah, I think we keep scratching and clawing and trying to get better (with a pinch of draft luck) and try to beat them or hope we catch some breaks and not have to face them at all. I don’t think we can NEVER win. We just have to get lucky, and a team with a good coach (but not the best) and a great QB (but not the best) is going to need luck to break through. Mahomes can win 10 for all I care, I just want one. I am past the point of caring if Josh Allen goes down as the greatest QB in the history of QB’s. There’s some weird obsession with trying to wish Josh into being a better QB than Pat but that race is long over. 1 Quote
Success Posted February 22 Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Nah, I think we keep scratching and clawing and trying to get better (with a pinch of draft luck) and try to beat them or hope we catch some breaks and not have to face them at all. I don’t think we can NEVER win. We just have to get lucky, and a team with a good coach (but not the best) and a great QB (but not the best) is going to need luck to break through. Mahomes can win 10 for all I care, I just want one. I am past the point of caring if Josh Allen goes down as the greatest QB in the history of QB’s. There’s some weird obsession with trying to wish Josh into being a better QB than Pat but that race is long over. Most teams need luck to win a title. Even the mighty Chiefs. 1 Quote
beebe Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Success said: So what's the conclusion? Allen just ain't good enough? He's holding McDermott back from greatness? Playoff loss #5: 26-for-39 for 186 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INT, 24 points, vs Chiefs in '23 divisional round. Not good enough. Playoff loss #4: 24-of-42 for 264 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 10 points, vs Bengals in '22 divisional round. Not good enough. Playoff loss #3: 27-of-37 for 329 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INT, 36 points, vs Chiefs in '21 divisional round. Good enough! Playoff loss #2: 28-of-48 for 287 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 24 points (two garbage time scores late) vs Chiefs in '20 AFC title game. Not good enough. Playoff loss #1: 24-of-46 for 264 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 19 points vs Texans in '19 AFC Wild Card. Not good enough. Allen clearly wasn't good enough in playoff losses #1, #2, #4. He was arguably good enough in playoff loss #5, but couldn't lead his team to any points in the final three possessions, in the same situation where Mahomes routinely comes up clutch (including in all three Super Bowl wins.) Allen was great in playoff loss #3. On the whole, Allen has been good — but not good enough. McDermott has clearly not been good enough — but has also had the hardest degree of difficulty assignment in football three of his last four playoff losses (stopping Mahomes.) Edited February 22 by beebe Quote
Success Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 2 minutes ago, beebe said: Playoff loss #5: 26-for-39 for 186 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INT, 24 points, vs Chiefs in '23 divisional round. Not good enough. Playoff loss #4: 24-of-42 for 264 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 10 points, vs Bengals in '22 divisional round. Not good enough. Playoff loss #3: 27-of-37 for 329 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INT, 36 points, vs Chiefs in '21 divisional round. Good enough! Playoff loss #2: 28-of-48 for 287 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 24 points (two garbage time scores late) vs Chiefs in '20 AFC title game. Not good enough. Playoff loss #1: 24-of-46 for 264 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 19 points vs Texans in '19 AFC Wild Card. Not good enough. Allen clearly wasn't good enough in playoff losses #1, #3, #4. He was arguably good enough in playoff loss #5, but couldn't lead his team to any points in the final three possessions, in the same situation where Mahomes routinely comes up clutch (including in all three Super Bowl wins.) Allen was great in playoff loss #3. On the whole, Allen has been good — but not good enough. McDermott has clearly not been good enough — but has also had the hardest degree of difficulty assignment in football three of his last four playoff losses (stopping Mahomes.) You said McDermott is basically Cowher before he got Big Ben. Were you saying that Allen isn't close to Big Ben, and that for McDermott to take that leap, he needs a better QB? EDIT: and quite a few people think Allen played as well as or better than Mahomes in this past game. He had some big drops by receivers. And you left out his rushing stats. Allen wasn't the reason we lost to KC this year. Edited February 22 by Success Quote
FireChans Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Just now, Success said: Most teams need luck to win a title. Even the mighty Chiefs. That’s true. There is a fair amount of luck involved. It’s hard to win championships. There’s also an aspect of when you’re the best, you sometimes just need to not beat yourselves. You can create your own luck. Folks that believe the NE dynasty and the Chiefs dynasty is “just” luck, are completely wrong imo. But luck certainly helps. Which is why the Chiefs lost their 1 SB and Brady/BB lost 3. Quote
beebe Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Success said: You said McDermott is basically Cowher before he got Big Ben. Were you saying that Allen isn't close to Big Ben, and that for McDermott to take that leap, he needs a better QB? He needs his QB to perform more consistently in the biggest moments. 1st-and-10 at the KC 27-yard line, 2:40 left, down by 3. Ball is in Allen's hands. He couldn't lead his team into the end zone. Purdy had chances to close out the game vs the Chiefs and couldn't do it either. Is what it is. I definitely prefer Big Ben to Allen in the clutch for what it's worth. Edited February 22 by beebe 1 Quote
90sBills Posted February 22 Posted February 22 41 minutes ago, FireChans said: It makes tremendous sense when you think about it. This fan base believes, by and large, believes that Josh Allen is at least Patrick Mahomes’ equal, maybe even better. Working off that assumption, they had to find other reasons why we haven’t had the same success as the Chiefs. First it was the weapons. “Give Josh Hill and Kelce!” “Sammy Watkins is their WR4!” Then Kelce got old and Hill got shipped out and that narrative had to die because they won two more. Now the only thing they have left is Reid. A guy who was a notorious choke artist for the first 20 or so years coaching. Never won the big one with talent at QB. Was clowned for a decade about sucking at clock management. Was a perennial first round exit in KC with a very talented roster. But of course, now he’s an elite coach. The upper echelon crust. And it can’t be because he has the current greatest QB in football. So really, the difference has to be Reid vastly outperforming McD. They ignore things they see with their own eyes (Harbaugh and Tomlin unable to win playoff games without elite QB play, BB’s Pats being a shell of themselves post Tom Brady, Arians winning an SB with the GOAT after failing to amount to much with Carson Palmer in Arizona.) It MUST be coaching. 100% this! It’s not like McD is an all world coach but he is a good coach. The reason the Bills have not been more successful is not solely on him. The roster needs to get younger. That would help with injuries issues. Also a part of the equation that 90% of people on here won’t acknowledge is Allen needs to be better. We see Mahomes run to pick up a first in the most pressured situations time and time. Or toss a short conversion when the game is on the line to win the game. Now correlate that to all the times we see Allen do similar things and in most people’s minds it’s ’Allen can do all that. Probably better. So why can’t we win a superbowl? Must be the coach’ The problem is when pressure is at its most Allen still needs improvement doing the mundane. It’s the mental aspect of the game that most refuse to see his shortcomings. On that last drive against KC he fumbled trying to fight for extra yards instead of going down. Just because a 4th round rookie db tried to scoop it instead of jumping on it people just forget it happened. Then of course later in the drive making the wrong choice to throw to the endzone. Even with that throw he could’ve slid a little to the right or up in the pocket and gotten a clean throw. These are the things that makes Allen a step behind Mahomes. The little things that wouldn’t matter who the coach is. I hope Allen would spend the offseason evaluating and improving this part of his game. 1 1 Quote
Success Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Just now, beebe said: He needs his QB to perform more consistently in the biggest moments. 1st-and-10 at the KC 27-yard line, 2:40 left, down by 3. Ball is in Allen's hands. He couldn't lead his team into the end zone. Purdy had chances to close out the game vs the Chiefs and couldn't do it either. Is what it is. Of course, of course. Because, as we know - Josh Allen has to play perfect games for the team to have a chance. 1 Quote
beebe Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Just now, Success said: Of course, of course. Because, as we know - Josh Allen has to play perfect games for the team to have a chance. He wasn't anywhere close to perfect in the AFC title game loss to KC or the '22 Divisional loss to the Bengals. 1 Quote
Success Posted February 22 Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, 90sBills said: 100% this! It’s not like McD is an all world coach but he is a good coach. The reason the Bills have not been more successful is not solely on him. The roster needs to get younger. That would help with injuries issues. Also a part of the equation that 90% of people on here won’t acknowledge is Allen needs to be better. We see Mahomes run to pick up a first in the most pressured situations time and time. Or toss a short conversion when the game is on the line to win the game. Now correlate that to all the times we see Allen do similar things and in most people’s minds it’s ’Allen can do all that. Probably better. So why can’t we win a superbowl? Must be the coach’ The problem is when pressure is at its most Allen still needs improvement doing the mundane. It’s the mental aspect of the game that most refuse to see his shortcomings. On that last drive against KC he fumbled trying to fight for extra yards instead of going down. Just because a 4th round rookie db tried to scoop it instead of jumping on it people just forget it happened. Then of course later in the drive making the wrong choice to throw to the endzone. Even with that throw he could’ve slid a little to the right or up in the pocket and gotten a clean throw. These are the things that makes Allen a step behind Mahomes. The little things that wouldn’t matter who the coach is. I hope Allen would spend the offseason evaluating and improving this part of his game. The bolded is incorrect. He made the right choice. When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity. Just now, beebe said: He wasn't anywhere close to perfect in the AFC title game loss to KC or the '22 Divisional loss to the Bengals. He wasn't good in the AFC title game. Not that it matters that the top 4 receivers had injuries, w/ one playing on a broken leg. He was bad in the Cincy game. That is not disputable. He was the best player on the field for the Bills in this past divisional - and it wasn't close. I can't really name another player who made an impact play, except maybe Shakir. His other receivers dropped big passes. And who on defense made a real impact play, especially in the 2nd half? I can name quite a few other players on the Chiefs who made impact plays that game. Quote
FireChans Posted February 22 Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, Success said: Of course, of course. Because, as we know - Josh Allen has to play perfect games for the team to have a chance. We would all agree that Brock Purdy has a chance to win the Super Bowl but didn’t play well enough to get it done? Missed a couple plays that would’ve changed the game? Why can we not use that same criteria for Allen? It all comes down to that fundamental flawed assumption. “He’s just as good, if not the better QB than Pat.” So Allen can’t be criticized in that same way, I guess. I will continue to live in the world where Patrick Mahomes almost ALWAYS delivers and that’s what makes him the best. Namely, reality. Ya’ll can continue to believe that Allen also does (despite what our eyes tell us). I wonder what Saints message boards were like when Brees and Brady were at their peak. “Brees is just as good if not better than Brady, there’s just a coaching discrepancy! The team isn’t good enough, they have Gronk and we only have Jimmy Graham!” Now of course, we can all admit that Brady was just a better QB. I’m sure even Saints fans admit it now. It’s hard being second best. Quote
Andrew Son Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Success said: The bolded is incorrect. He made the right choice. When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity. The whole last drive he went into "hero mode." Fumbled the ball that we were fortunate to recover. Threw an ill conceived pass off the hands of a defender, and went for the kill shots instead of checking down to move the chains and milk the clock. It is what it is. That's what we get with Josh- a lot of brilliance, but he occasionally gets tight and spazzes out in the big moments. 1 Quote
90sBills Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Success said: The bolded is incorrect. He made the right choice. When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity. Ok let’s go with that. He could’ve given himself a better throw to connect. The only pressure was from Chris Jones. Let’s say he stepped up and connected. TD with almost 2 minutes left and 2 TO for KC. Do you think we’re winning that game seeing KC’s run through the playoffs? That’s what I’m saying about making decisions that give your team the best chance of winning. Take the short. Pick up the first. KC would be forced to use their timeouts. Then use your heroics for the TD with little time left. You’re guaranteed a tie at worst. That’s the game awareness that great QBs need to be concerned with. 1 1 Quote
beebe Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 minute ago, Success said: The bolded is incorrect. He made the right choice. When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity. Analytically speaking, I agree. Touchdowns are never guaranteed. Turnovers happen, inexplicable holding calls happen. You take touchdowns when you can get them. That being said, if you were to ask 100 Chiefs fans: "Would you rather the Bills complete a first down to Diggs for 10 yards or get an immediate touchdown to Shakir," every single one of them is taking the immediate touchdown. A first-down completion likely meant overtime at absolute best for KC. If the Bills completed the TD pass to Shakir, Mahomes gets 1:55 to drive down the field against a defense he was torching for much of the game. Quote
FireChans Posted February 22 Posted February 22 8 minutes ago, Success said: The bolded is incorrect. He made the right choice. When you have an open guy in the endzone - you take that opportunity. He wasn't good in the AFC title game. Not that it matters that the top 4 receivers had injuries, w/ one playing on a broken leg. He was bad in the Cincy game. That is not disputable. He was the best player on the field for the Bills in this past divisional - and it wasn't close. I can't really name another player who made an impact play, except maybe Shakir. His other receivers dropped big passes. And who on defense made a real impact play, especially in the 2nd half? I can name quite a few other players on the Chiefs who made impact plays that game. Poyer forced a fumble out of the end zone that saved the game from being a blowout and cost the Chiefs 7 points. 1 Quote
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