Salary cap question, Leonard Floyd’s dead cap

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

Yep.

 

I think we will be under the cap comfortably and signing a few important players this off season.

 

Only by restructuring some contracts and kicking the can further down the road, making it harder for us to sustain excellence.

 

I fear that Beane's personnel and cap skills (or lack thereof) will result in us fielding a playoff-caliber team every year, but never a championship one.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Only by restructuring some contracts and kicking the can further down the road, making it harder for us to sustain excellence.

 

I fear that Beane's personnel and cap skills (or lack thereof) will result in us fielding a playoff-caliber team every year, but never a championship one.  

That will be a be part of it, yes.

 

However we are at the point in time where things have been pushed off a bit and we will start to see more and more of the "cap casualties" coming into play. Guys like Morse that otherwise would have likely been back for another year and are still playing at a respectable level will be pushed off the roster to recoup some money. Which will also create more and more dead cap.

 

We will be robbing Peter to pay Paul until we do a hard cap reset.

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Kicked the can down the road is how I see it…

 

4 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Pretty much it, the contract was set up to allow them an extra player they couldn’t afford last year, now you eat it.   It’s a pretty common practice, just kicks the can down the road.  The Bills have to hit re-set here soon and eat ***** for a year or continue to be just good enough to disappoint.

Yeah I'm officially done kicking the can down the road. Time to start kicking some bad contracts off this team.

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, BBFL said:

Agreed. But kicking the can down the road on 1 year deals is moronic IMO. Even more if you aren’t able to extend or resign the player on that contract. 

The alternative would have been to not sign Floyd as well as one or two players. 

[HOUSE]

I loved his music but

See ya 

[NoSaint]

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Only by restructuring some contracts and kicking the can further down the road, making it harder for us to sustain excellence.

 

I fear that Beane's personnel and cap skills (or lack thereof) will result in us fielding a playoff-caliber team every year, but never a championship one.  

he’s doing the same thing most (all?) successful teams are doing with the cap

 

though there’s a philosophy called cash to cap you might love 

[BarleyNY]

Some perspective on this. The Bills are middle of the pack in dead money with $12.2M. While I wouldn’t say that everything is rosy, dead money is really not a problem today. 

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

 

Edited to add: Dead cap numbers obviously will change in the coming weeks - and they may get bad - but if they do it won’t be because of Floyd’s contract. 

Edited February 20 by BarleyNY

[BuffaloRebound]

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

he’s doing the same thing most (all?) successful teams are doing with the cap

 

though there’s a philosophy called cash to cap you might love 

as long as cap keeps going up 8-10% every year and it looks like it will the next 10 years, there’s almost no downside pushing forward 5-10% of your cap charges every year especially when Josh Allen is your QB for the foreseeable future.  

[SCBills]

56 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Only by restructuring some contracts and kicking the can further down the road, making it harder for us to sustain excellence.

 

I fear that Beane's personnel and cap skills (or lack thereof) will result in us fielding a playoff-caliber team every year, but never a championship one.  

Everyone does this.. it’s just about how “all in” do you want to go.

 

Given we have 10 draft picks, and still 3 of those top 100, we haven’t done that.  
 

There is only one contending team that has an owner willing to spend, franchise QB off a rookie contract and a salary cap that’s in a good place moving forward… unfortunately that team is Kansas City. 

[Reks Ryan]

4 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Not following that logic.  It’s cap money, not real money.  That $4.3m dead cap is less than 2% of $243m and it doesn’t matter where it came from at this point.  Floyd clearly prefers the 1 year contract thing and if McBeane decides to bring him back the $4.3m dead cap will have no bearing on that decision.  

Yep. Sunk costs.   

 

Let's say they have a chance to sign either Floyd or Jadeveon Clowney to a 1 year $5 million contract.   It just comes down to who they think gives them the best value and best chance to have a good season.  Floyd's old contract doesn't matter because they already paid his signing bonus in 2023.

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I don’t get this.  Didn’t he sign a one year deal?  How is there a cap hit this year?

You make voidable years to save cap space in the years before. 

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

That's why I say take the cap hits this year, draft well amd do nothing FA wise until after June 1st.  At some point we have to do this, I say get it over with now.

If it were me, I’d blow it up now and start fresh, but it’s not my toy.  Miller, Diggs, Knox, Morse, Bass, etc would all be taking massive past cuts or be hitting the streets. 

[The Jokeman]

36 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Everyone does this.. it’s just about how “all in” do you want to go.

 

Given we have 10 draft picks, and still 3 of those top 100, we haven’t done that.  
 

There is only one contending team that has an owner willing to spend, franchise QB off a rookie contract and a salary cap that’s in a good place moving forward… unfortunately that team is Kansas City. 

KC still has to retain key players like Jones and Sneed, having cap space means you spend it wisely. I mean Jawaan Taylor looks like a terrible signing. 

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Actually, it was a FOUR year deal - not two. We still have dead cap hits for Leonard Floyd in 2025 and 2026.

Cost of trying to remain a Super Bowl contender every year.  I heard the cap this year is coming in higher than expected so that’s really good for us. 

3 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

If it were me, I’d blow it up now and start fresh, but it’s not my toy.  Miller, Diggs, Knox, Morse, Bass, etc would all be taking massive past cuts or be hitting the streets. 

Morse maybe.  Miller, Diggs, Knox, and even Bass (somewhat) have the Bills by the balls at least for 2024.

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Actually, it was a FOUR year deal - not two. We still have dead cap hits for Leonard Floyd in 2025 and 2026.

All of the future years cap hit accelerate to the current season when the contract voids. All of Floyd’s remaining dead money hits in 2024. The reason for using multiple void years is to push more of the hit out to the following season. 

[BuffaloRebound]

If I’m bringing in a 30+ year old pass rusher, I’d prefer Kahlil Mack once he’s inevitably cut by Chargers.  

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

All of the future years cap hit accelerate to the current season when the contract voids. All of Floyd’s remaining dead money hits in 2024. The reason for using multiple void years is to push more of the hit out to the following season. 

Yup- if voiding to a single season

 

a 2 year deal spreads the signing bonus 50-50

 

a 3 would end up hitting 33-67

 

a 4 would be 25-75 on the signing bonus 

 

a 5 would be 20-80

[Ethan in Cleveland]

57 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

If it were me, I’d blow it up now and start fresh, but it’s not my toy.  Miller, Diggs, Knox, Morse, Bass, etc would all be taking massive past cuts or be hitting the streets. 

You don't know how the NFL works. I'm not trying to be mean but contracts just don't work that way in the NFL. Very few have large amounts of guaranteed money. So players agree to huge signing bonuses to get the most money up front. Teams add years to lessen the cap hit in the present. These dead cap hits only get worse if you cut the player early. 

And it's interesting the only player you didn't list who actually can and should be cut, but actually makes sense for both parties to agree to a paycut is White.

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, NoSaint said:

he’s doing the same thing most (all?) successful teams are doing with the cap

 

though there’s a philosophy called cash to cap you might love 

 

I think cash-to-cap is an intriguing idea though transitioning to it would be painful.

 

Yeah, most teams restructure contracts.  Most teams are NOT sitting $55 million over the cap (using the OTC figure) and forced to restructure just to get under the cap even with 22 FAs no longer under contract.  

The Chief, in contrast, won a SB and are $15 million under the cap.  They have the 2nd least dead money ($457,000) in the league because they don't continually kick the can down the road.   

 

How do we catch up to their roster strength when they have $70 million more to spend?  

[Mark Vader]

5 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Only by restructuring some contracts and kicking the can further down the road, making it harder for us to sustain excellence.

 

I fear that Beane's personnel and cap skills (or lack thereof) will result in us fielding a playoff-caliber team every year, but never a championship one.  

They can make contract extensions, and get pay cuts from other players as well.

 

Restructuring contracts is not their only option.