Is it time to grow concerned about Greg Rousseau?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Brand J said:

So is $20M+/yr for what he brings. That’s even more ridiculous. 

How do you watch him and not think he’s worth the money? And he’s a better run defender than pass rusher.

 

 

Edited February 19 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Rousseau was really raw when he came out … only had two years of a college if I remember correctly and sat out the season before he was a drafted because of the Covid situation …so maybe you can think he is still going through some development and can get better ..

 

I would have liked to have seen better pass rush skills by now…

 

Im leaning that the 5th Year option is too much $$$ for what he is shown to date ..

 

He’ll get the 5th year option, no doubt. But going forward, unless he taps into a consistent ability to disrupt the QB, he walks if his camp believes he should be paid like a great edge defender. $13M/yr would be my value on what he currently brings. $15M/yr if his sacks per season stay relatively the same (5-8) but his amount of pressures greatly increase. He just doesn’t affect the QB often enough - currently - to get into big money discussions. 

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you watch him and not think he’s worth the money? And he’s a better run defender than pass rusher.

 

 

I’ve said he’s a much better run defender than pass rusher. How do I watch him and not think he’s worth $20M/yr? Same way I watched Edmunds for 5 years and didn’t think he should’ve been paid a dime more than Milano at $11-$13M/yr. You let those non-difference makers walk if the price tag gets high, you DONT extend that production with a hefty contract.

[muppy]

lol was this rhetoric similar regarding Ed Oliver before he signed his contract and blew up?

 

I think you doth  protest a bit too much regarding Rousseau.  Could he not also "blow up" sooner rather than later?

 

I call this a "borrow trouble" thread. Jusr sayin.  He is fine and I think only going to get better.

[corta765]

He is a very good player who will probably make a pro bowl or two at some point.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, muppy said:

lol was this rhetoric similar regarding Ed Oliver before he signed his contract and blew up?

 

I think you doth  protest a bit too much regarding Rousseau.  Could he not also "blow up" sooner rather than later?

 

I call this a "borrow trouble" thread. Jusr sayin.  He is fine and I think only going to get better.

Was this attributed to me? Or the OP? If I could go back and dig up some of my old posts, I was in favor of extending Oliver, always had been, because he had shown an ability to take over games, he just didn’t do it consistently enough. I still remember Dallas on Thanksgiving and a Jets game where he was a one man wrecking ball, single-handedly disrupted drives. I told people years ago if it came down to Edmunds or Oliver I’m picking Oliver 10/10 even if he plays a fraction of the defensive snaps. And if Rousseau blows up, great! He’d be worth the investment, but I’m not extending his current production at a high ticket. He has yet shown that he can take over games like Oliver had shown. 

[muppy]

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

Was this attributed to me? Or the OP? If I could go back and dig up some of my old posts, I was in favor of extending Oliver, always had been, because he had shown an ability to take over games, he just didn’t do it consistently enough. I still remember Dallas on Thanksgiving and a Jets game where he was a one man wrecking ball, single-handedly disrupted drives. I told people years ago if it came down to Edmunds or Oliver I’m picking Oliver 10/10 even if he plays a fraction of the defensive snaps. And if Rousseau blows up, great! He’d be worth the investment, but I’m not extending his current production at a high ticket. He has yet shown that he can take over games like Oliver had shown. 

no.  I was posting to the thread in general. but more so the OP

Edited February 19 by muppy

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Brand J said:

He’ll get the 5th year option, no doubt. But going forward, unless he taps into a consistent ability to disrupt the QB, he walks if his camp believes he should be paid like a great edge defender. $13M/yr would be my value on what he currently brings. $15M/yr if his sacks per season stay relatively the same (5-8) but his amount of pressures greatly increase. He just doesn’t affect the QB often enough - currently - to get into big money discussions. 

I’ve said he’s a much better run defender than pass rusher. How do I watch him and not think he’s worth $20M/yr? Same way I watched Edmunds for 5 years and didn’t think he should’ve been paid a dime more than Milano at $11-$13M/yr. You let those non-difference makers walk if the price tag gets high, you DONT extend that production with a hefty contract.

“Non difference makers”

 

Team was one of the best pass rushing teams in the league. He was our best edge pass rusher and only plays 60% of the snaps. He’s 23 years old. He’s our best edge pass rusher and he’s an even better run defender. 

 

Youre letting that guy walk. The 2nd most important position in the NFL you’re trading for a 3rd round comp pick. He’s literally our best edge player.

 

Have fun replacing him.
 

Edmunds was an easily replaceable position. Plus he was a below average player. There’s no comparison.

 

 

[blacklabel]

Don't we have enough concerns? I mean, Tyler Bass is still sitting in the corner. That's on me, tho. He can continue to think about what he did. 

 

Groot might not rack up crazy numbers but he's typically pretty solid when he gets out there. Should hopefully continue to evolve. They'll be counting on him a lot this season. 

[Matt_In_NH]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you watch him and not think he’s worth the money? And he’s a better run defender than pass rusher.

 

 

I hear Joe talk about pass rush win rate a lot.  It makes sense on the surface and I think it matters.   I also think it matters if you "close" and get the sack or not.  I like Rousseau and agree many don't realize his value in the run game.  However there are times no rush is generated and we are left with "well the pass rush win rate is good".  What does that do for us?  Is there correlation between pass rush win rate and sacks?   Is it common for a guy to h ave a hgh win rate and low sack rate and what does that mean?

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

“Non difference makers”

 

Team was one of the best pass rushing teams in the league. He was our best edge pass rusher and only plays 60% of the snaps. He’s 23 years old. He’s our best edge pass rusher and he’s an even better run defender. 

 

Youre letting that guy walk. The 2nd most important position in the NFL you’re trading for a 3rd round comp pick. He’s literally our best edge player.

 

Have fun replacing him.
 

Edmunds was an easily replaceable position. Plus he was a below average player. There’s no comparison.

 

 

Correct, I’m letting him walk if he thinks he should be paid more than he’s worth. If he makes one of these lists when his contract is up for discussion, he’ll have a much stronger argument for being paid like a great player: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#prwr

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Which players showed up in our biggest games? Besides Josh?

 

We have plenty of talent. When the entire team is consistently no-showing for the big games, the issue lies above the players.

 

See: @FireChans previous thread with the poll.

Just Josh. Maybe Milano. Which is why I am nervous about overpaying good players to get 6 sacks in the regular season.

Edited February 19 by FireChans

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Brand J said:

Correct, I’m letting him walk if he thinks he should be paid more than he’s worth. If he makes one of these lists when his contract is up for discussion, he’ll have a much stronger argument for being paid like a great player: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#prwr

You’re missing the point that great edge players will be making $30+ million in 2 years. I actually don’t want him to have that 1 elite year before signing his deal.

Edited February 19 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, muppy said:

lol was this rhetoric similar regarding Ed Oliver before he signed his contract and blew up?

 

I think you doth  protest a bit too much regarding Rousseau.  Could he not also "blow up" sooner rather than later?

 

I call this a "borrow trouble" thread. Jusr sayin.  He is fine and I think only going to get better.

 

"I have known many troubles in my life, most of which never happened."

 

- Mark Twain

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you watch him and not think he’s worth the money? And he’s a better run defender than pass rusher.

 

 

“Mildly better than Kingsley Jonathan,” is not the trump card you think it is.

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I hear Joe talk about pass rush win rate a lot.  It makes sense on the surface and I think it matters.   I also think it matters if you "close" and get the sack or not.  I like Rousseau and agree many don't realize his value in the run game.  However there are times no rush is generated and we are left with "well the pass rush win rate is good".  What does that do for us?  Is there correlation between pass rush win rate and sacks?   Is it common for a guy to h ave a hgh win rate and low sack rate and what does that mean?

I remember one play from the Chiefs game where Rousseau was in on Mahomes. One. And he didn’t get the sack. Because of the miss Klein inexplicably left his assignment and we gave up a huge play. Those sacks and being able to close the deal definitely matter. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Just Josh. Maybe Milano. Which is why I am nervous about overpaying good players to get 6 sacks in the regular season.

 

We have the talent. We dont have people who can get the most out of that talent or put that talent in positions to succeed.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The topic isn’t about if he’s “going anywhere.” 
 

Imagine complaining about a topic you misunderstood lmao

It is a topic of GRs worth, and should he be paid or let go, when we all know he will be here for the next two seasons, it’s a fruitless exercise presently, it is you who misunderstand your own thread, 😁👍

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re missing the point that great edge players will be making $30+ million in 2 years. I actually don’t want him to have that 1 elite year before signing his deal.

We’ll see what Beane does, but if all things stay relatively the same, don’t be surprised if Rousseau is allowed to walk versus Beane signing him for $20M/yr. I just don’t think it’ll happen. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

It is a topic of GRs worth, and should he be paid or let go, when we all know he will be here for the next two seasons, it’s a fruitless exercise presently, it is you who misunderstand your own thread, 😁👍

Everything we talk about is a fruitless exercise, unless @DrDawkinstein is secretly Brandon Beane. Not only do you not understand the thread, I’m afraid you don’t understand message boards in general. 

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We have the talent. We dont have people who can get the most out of that talent or put that talent in positions to succeed.

I’m not sure we do. 

 

There’s no coaching explanation for why Ed was able to have such a great year, a career year, and then get erased by the KC IOL (who are great). They were just better than him, all night.

 

I thought the KC OT’s were their biggest weakness going into that game, and yet Groot was a ghost. Also not good enough. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

“Mildly better than Kingsley Jonathan,” is not the trump card you think it is.

It’s a very small sample size. He did have a good game which helped his rate.