When healthy: we were the best team in the league.

[nucci]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Terry has his hands full with the Sabres. I got to watch the game yesterday against the Ducks as it was televised out here in SoCal. That team is an utter mess…..still! Unbelievable 

his hands would be full if he was actually doing anything about the Sabres.

[Johnnyp566]

No we aren’t. The team that just won their 3rd SB is 5 years is.

[Don Otreply]

To the OP, that could very well have been the case, but the team going forward, especially the defense will be substantially different personnel wise.  The offense will have an OC that will have installed his own system/schemes and is likely to look different as well, with some new guys there as well, I suspect the team will be in the fight all season long, win another AFCE crown, and I hope will go further in the post season, every season is new and what happened last year is no longer relevant.

[The Red King]

23 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I was responding to the comment about NFL injuries in general. As long as the QB is healthy there’s still a chance to salvage the season.

 

As for the divisional game…of course it would’ve been better without all the defensive injuries. Not sure how much they could slow down KC though. Their offense always seem to find a way. Bills offense was relatively healthy and they were in position to win at the end. Just couldn’t get it done. 

 

They slowed down KC well enough in the regular season.  Remind me who covered Kelce in that playoff game?  You think our healthy starting D would have been ripped up even half as bad?

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

 

They slowed down KC well enough in the regular season.  Remind me who covered Kelce in that playoff game?  You think our healthy starting D would have been ripped up even half as bad?

If history is any indicator, yes

[The Red King]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

If history is any indicator, yes

 

If backups can step in for starters with no loss in production, why do we pay starters more?

 

If you honestly think that our healthy starting D wouldn't have done any better against KC out there, I can't take you seriously anymore.

[Trev]

Not even close. 

[Mikie2times]

Just now, The Red King said:

 

If backups can step in for starters with no loss in production, why do we pay starters more?

 

If you honestly think that our healthy starting D wouldn't have done any better against KC out there, I can't take you seriously anymore.

KC has averaged 40 points against us in the two other playoff games in which our defense was rated much higher than a healthy version of the one you're talking about. If we were healthy we somehow hold them to what under 20? I'm the crazy one for thinking that mindset is crazy? It's ok if you don't take me seriously. 

[90sBills]

8 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

They slowed down KC well enough in the regular season.  Remind me who covered Kelce in that playoff game?  You think our healthy starting D would have been ripped up even half as bad?

KC was a boneheaded penalty away from winning that regular season game. Also seeing how things have played out KC has another gear in the playoffs that Bills have yet to match. 
 

Could a healthy Bills D slowed them down this time? Maybe. But more likely not. As KC played a better (and healthy) defense in Baltimore the week after then yet again another better ranked defense in SF to win the Lombardi. So lament all you want about what could should would. KC has proved that they can beat anyone in the playoffs. Bills need to raise their game to that level otherwise the trophy case will remain empty.   

[Success]

3 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

KC was a boneheaded penalty away from winning that regular season game. Also seeing how things have played out KC has another gear in the playoffs that Bills have yet to match. 
 

Could a healthy Bills D slowed them down this time? Maybe. But more likely not. As KC played a better (and healthy) defense in Baltimore the week after then yet again another better ranked defense in SF to win the Lombardi. So lament all you want about what could should would. KC has proved that they can beat anyone in the playoffs. Bills need to raise their game to that level otherwise the trophy case will remain empty.   

 

The bolded is what I don't really get.

 

Why does KC get the benefit of some "ifs" on here from some - but we don't hear from those same posters about the "ifs" of Diggs catching that 60-yarder, or Sherfield catching that long one, or Dawkins not ceding so much ground to Chris Jones, or Bass making that FG?

 

That narrative for some seems pretty one-sided in support of an idea that the Bills are nowhere close to KC, when just about every game we have w/ them is a coin flip kind of game.

 

[90sBills]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is what I don't really get.

 

Why does KC get the benefit of some "ifs" on here from some - but we don't hear from those same posters about the "ifs" of Diggs catching that 60-yarder, or Sherfield catching that long one, or Dawkins not ceding so much ground to Chris Jones, or Bass making that FG?

 

That narrative for some seems pretty one-sided in support of an idea that the Bills are nowhere close to KC, when just about every game we have w/ them is a coin flip kind of game.

 

Well for me it was in direct response to the previous post about our healthy defense ‘handling’ KC in that game. My point was not really. And to a wider point those regular season games don’t amount to much at all. Playoff games are where it matters.

 

Yeah sure. Coin flip in all the games but one side won them all (playoffs) and has all the trophies. So yes close but no cigars as they say. 

[Saxum]

27 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is what I don't really get.

 

Why does KC get the benefit of some "ifs" on here from some - but we don't hear from those same posters about the "ifs" of Diggs catching that 60-yarder, or Sherfield catching that long one, or Dawkins not ceding so much ground to Chris Jones, or Bass making that FG?

 

That narrative for some seems pretty one-sided in support of an idea that the Bills are nowhere close to KC, when just about every game we have w/ them is a coin flip kind of game.

 

 

Well you are called Success and @Failure was taken and they could not take it so they just took the meaning.

[Mikie2times]

46 minutes ago, Success said:

 

The bolded is what I don't really get.

 

Why does KC get the benefit of some "ifs" on here from some - but we don't hear from those same posters about the "ifs" of Diggs catching that 60-yarder, or Sherfield catching that long one, or Dawkins not ceding so much ground to Chris Jones, or Bass making that FG?

 

That narrative for some seems pretty one-sided in support of an idea that the Bills are nowhere close to KC, when just about every game we have w/ them is a coin flip kind of game.

 

I don't recall any threads on this forum discussing what could have potentially went worse than it did. I can point to dozens of threads discussing how our injuries are the reason we didn't advance. Then that concept has sister threads about why McD should be trusted. Then that concept has sister threads about Allen swapping with Mahomes or having more weapons. The whole forum is filled with hypothetical situations trying to make sense of why we can seemingly be the best team in the NFL and not get past the divisional round.

 

If you want to ignore everything I just said even people like myself will not say we should have failed to make the playoffs or we should have actually been in a worse situation than how it panned out. I will put a light on the possible negative outcomes only if people want ignore they exist. In the end they blend with the potential for positive outcomes that didn't actually occur. The truth being what we saw and have seen. The probability gods have a way of sorting all this stuff out in a pretty balanced way if you can stay neutral on what should or shouldn't be. Bills fans have taken a real short stick but that's on the team. Not some notion of bad luck. The team has mad its own bad luck and we are the victims of it. 

Edited February 21 by Mikie2times

[BullBuchanan]

Not even remotely close. That San Francisco defense would have annihilated us. McCaffery would've run for 200.

Edited February 21 by BullBuchanan

[SinceThe70s]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Not even remotely close. That San Francisco defense would have annihilated us. McCaffery would've run for 200.

 

ANNIHILATED!!!

 

How bad would the loss have been?  More than 6 points?  

[harmonkillebrew]

On 2/18/2024 at 4:42 PM, Aussie Joe said:

Our mate from Kansas City that posts here did make a good point the other day…

 

Outside the QB … is there another superstar on this Bills team ?

 

KC has a couple …including Chris Jones who I think is the most valuable defensive player in the game at present …

 

They got 2 great CBs ( better than anything we got) … superior interior OL ( that handled Oliver with ease… ) and Kelce on the decline but still a big game winner …

 

Bills have got a lot of “above average “ players … but not too many game winners outside JA..
 

 

Von was supposed to be our big D, swing for the fences superstar. He might bounce back next year a bit, but it's unlikely he even gets close to his contract value.

 

Diggs is a quickly disappearing superstar.

 

Other than that we're saddled with some aging, expensive non-superstars.

We need to trim the fat and restock with more players that are budding superstars (Cook, Kincaid, Milano).

But I'd also like us to find away, through the fat trimming, of getting another real superstar complement to Allen.

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

ANNIHILATED!!!

 

How bad would the loss have been?  More than 6 points?  

For sure. I would think at least 10. Josh would have been under constant duress from their pass, rush, their DBs would have locked down our WRs and Warner would have blown up our run game. We wouldn't have been able to out-scheme them like KC did.

[Success]

12 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

For sure. I would think at least 10. Josh would have been under constant duress from their pass, rush, their DBs would have locked down our WRs and Warner would have blown up our run game. We wouldn't have been able to out-scheme them like KC did.

 

I might need some logic behind this one.

 

When did we get blown out this past season? When was a Bills game not close?  Didn't KC beat the Niners?  Didn't the Ravens - who KC beat more handily than they beat the Bills?

 

So, that one game would have been the outlier where a team just handled us easily?

 

Edited February 21 by Success

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

I might need some logic behind this one.

 

When did we get blown out this past season? When was a Bills game not close?  Didn't KC beat the Niners, and the Ravens - who KC beat more handily than they beat the Bills?

 

So, that one game would have been the outlier where a team just handled us easily?

 

Happy to help.

It's pretty simple: The Ravens, Chiefs and 49ers all boasted elite defenses in every phase. When the Bills faced top defenses this year, they often struggled (Jets, Chiefs, Patriots, ), they also had success against top defenses in the Steelers, Raiders, Cowboys, but only the Cowboys were though to be in the upper end of defenses. The Ravens, 49ers and Chiefs (who eliminated us) were all cream of the crop.

I'm not saying the Bills would lose by 20, but I could absolutely see a loss by 10+ to the 49ers, or even the ravens, in a game where the Bills were never really in a position to win. I know it feels good to think "oh we were a play away from beating KC" or whatever, but that's why they're stacking Lombardi's, while Josh is working on his short game. Despite the small difference in scores, there's a chasm of difference between the top teams in the league and where the Bills are now.

I think if you run a simulation from the division round forward 100 times, I'd be shocked if the Bills win out more than 5-6 times. They just aren't built to go deep and they never have been. We'll be running it back once again this year and you guys will get all excited when they win 11-12 games, and you'll be so disappointed and shocked when we get dropped out early in the playoffs. I won't be. I've seen how champions have been built the last 20 and especially the last 10 years.

You go all-in or you go home.

[The Red King]

So, how do you build a team to avoid losing key starters in every level of your defense?

 

Not saying the Bills were a perfect team by any measure.  I just can't understand how people can just handwave away the number of key injuries the Bills had as if every team had to deal with them.  The Chiefs certainly didn't when we met in the playoffs.

 

But that leads to a different topic.  *Can* something be done about these injuries?  The last two seasons the team was shredded by crippling injuries.  Was it all flukes?  Do we need to look at strength and conditioning?