thenorthremembers Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) Really have to normalize the data to fully understand the comparison (click below). I dont think anyone would argue that Lamar isnt on Mahomes or Allen's level, but he isnt as far off as the raw data originally posted would have you think. He is on par with both Mahomes and Josh when it comes to total yards, the issue is the high number of interceptions in comparison to his average touchdown output. Josh and Pat are nearly identical when it comes to averages, but Id argue where the difference shows up is when it comes to being clutch. Brady was better than Pat in head to heads, Mahomes is better than Allen. Lamar is a fine quarterback. He sells a lot of jerseys. Edited February 16 by thenorthremembers Quote
Albany,n.y. Posted February 16 Posted February 16 4 hours ago, JoshAllin said: I did like Taylor tbh. It's too bad he wasn't blessed with the top D in the league I liked Tyrod until I watched him become what I called a wheel-spinner. When the Bills 1st signed Tyrod & I heard about some Ravens teammates saying glowing things about him, I sent a Bills fan friend an e-mail titled "We've found our franchise QB" and attached a photo of a tie-rod. He hadn't heard of the signing yet and his reply asked me why I sent him a photo of a car part. Quote
Don Otreply Posted February 16 Posted February 16 5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: agreed. this thread plows no new ground... Yeah, but let’s rehash this to death one more time…, 1 Quote
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 16 Posted February 16 6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I mean... Quote
prissythecat Posted February 16 Posted February 16 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: In fairness 2015 was Tyrod's best year. Once teams had film he was less effective. But yea, nobody was calling him an MVP..... except @transplantbillsfan actually. He loved himself some Tyrodball. Lol. Did we have annual Tyrod MVP threads back in the day too? Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 16 Posted February 16 23 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Lol. Did we have annual Tyrod MVP threads back in the day too? Not quite. But we did have lots of "ignore your eyes and look at these stats that prove that Tyrod is a top 10 Quarterback." 1 Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 8 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said: I mean... Where are you getting your numbers? Lamar Jackson fumbled the ball 11 times and lost 6 fumbles this year, not 2. Quote
BuffaloBillyG Posted February 16 Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Where are you getting your numbers? Lamar Jackson fumbled the ball 11 times and lost 6 fumbles this year, not 2. Not my meme. Just thought it was funny/interesting. Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said: Not my meme. Just thought it was funny/interesting. It is... it's just inaccurate. Quote
BananaB Posted February 16 Posted February 16 3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: Really have to normalize the data to fully understand the comparison (click below). I dont think anyone would argue that Lamar isnt on Mahomes or Allen's level, but he isnt as far off as the raw data originally posted would have you think. He is on par with both Mahomes and Josh when it comes to total yards, the issue is the high number of interceptions in comparison to his average touchdown output. Josh and Pat are nearly identical when it comes to averages, but Id argue where the difference shows up is when it comes to being clutch. Brady was better than Pat in head to heads, Mahomes is better than Allen. Lamar is a fine quarterback. He sells a lot of jerseys. Here’s the thing, you’re going by wins and losses but is Josh really letting his team down in clutch situations? He puts them ahead or in position to tie a lot, it’s not his fault they seem to ***** it up when he walks off the field. Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 13 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Don't buy the premise that Lamar is guaranteed HoF. We have done the chat about why he was MVP and the rights and wrongs of that to death. Every other 2 time winner is in the HOF 9 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said: If Bills have the best record in the league next season, Josh will be MVP. Bruce Nolan agrees with you https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/2/11/24069190/opinion-mvp-voters-like-fans-overall-think-wins-are-a-qb-stat-ravens-lamar-jackson-bills-josh-allen He ranks the priorities for MVP voters in the following order: #1- Most wins in Conference #2- Most wins head to head against other MVP candidates #3- QB efficiency #4- Raw stats 7 years in a row that the MVP winner has been the best team in the AFC or NFC record wise. Quote
BananaB Posted February 16 Posted February 16 41 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Every other 2 time winner is in the HOF Bruce Nolan agrees with you https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/2/11/24069190/opinion-mvp-voters-like-fans-overall-think-wins-are-a-qb-stat-ravens-lamar-jackson-bills-josh-allen He ranks the priorities for MVP voters in the following order: #1- Most wins in Conference #2- Most wins head to head against other MVP candidates #3- QB efficiency #4- Raw stats 7 years in a row that the MVP winner has been the best team in the AFC or NFC record wise. Top two got nothing to do with individual play which makes the reasoning so *****. Who does most for his team should be top of the list. The NFL is ***** anyway. I seen an interview today where the reporter asked Josh if the Pro Bowl was lame and he just kind of hummed and hawed and kind of dodged the question. Thought it was pretty funny Quote
Shaw66 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Josh... 5-5 playoff record 2,723 yards passing 21 touchdowns 4 interceptions 563 yards rushing 5 rushing TDs . Jackson... 2-4 playoff record 1,324 yards passing 6 touchdowns 6 interceptions 521 yards rushing 3 rushing TDs. Lamar, sadly, pretty much ensured (somehow) he will be in the HOF as a 2 time League MVP. Josh (somehow) still has work he's gotta do to be considered. Discuss... Well, first, unless something goes wrong, Josh is in. They're letting a lot of guys in the HOF now, and by the end of his career, Josh is going to have pretty amazing numbers, where he ever wins a Super Bowl. A lot of TDs, a lot of yards passing and a lot of yards rushing. He's already 8th on the career rushing list, and it's not a stretch for him to get into Vick/Newton territory. And his passing number will blow those guys away. The real problem is the MVP. It's just a weird popularity contest. I don't know who votes, but what's happened the last few years is about November the broadcasters all start speculating about who the MVP might be, naming a top 5, and somehow over the next month they drop names off the list, so that by the end of the season the announcers have built a consensus for one guy or another. As we saw this season, the announcers anointed Lamar before Josh and the Bills had a late season run - by early December they all were saying Lamar is the consensus choice. How can that make sense - it's a 17 game season, and a bunch of announcers decide who's going to be the MVP after 12 games. Plus, of course, the MVP is a regular season award and not a playoff award. 1 Quote
oldmanfan Posted February 16 Posted February 16 MVP voting should not take place till the Super Bowl is done. As for Jackson vs. Allen, Jackson is not a big game QB. Teams shut him down in the playoffs and showcase his flaws. Allen plays big in big games, just has to get the rest of the team dialed in to get past KC. Bottom line to me, Lamar keeps his team from getting a Lombardi, the team around him keeps Josh from the Lombardi. 1 Quote
zow2 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: The real problem is the MVP. It's just a weird popularity contest. I don't know who votes, but what's happened the last few years is about November the broadcasters all start speculating about who the MVP might be, naming a top 5, and somehow over the next month they drop names off the list, so that by the end of the season the announcers have built a consensus for one guy or another. As we saw this season, the announcers anointed Lamar before Josh and the Bills had a late season run - by early December they all were saying Lamar is the consensus choice. How can that make sense - it's a 17 game season, and a bunch of announcers decide who's going to be the MVP after 12 games. Plus, of course, the MVP is a regular season award and not a playoff award. Josh was ruled out early on with the 6-6 record and his INTs. You hit it when you said 12 games, that when they narrowed it down to Lamar vs the field and ignored everything Josh did the rest of the way. And then the Ravens killed the 49ers and embarrassed Miami to get the #1 seed. The criteria is set. The MVP is going to be the QB on the #1 seeded team with the best record. That's it. And Lamar's team beat Purdy's team head to head to make it even easier in the voters minds. In my personal opinion,,,if not Allen (the most TD's and great stats leading us to the #2 seed), then I would've given it to CMC or Tyreek. Both were hugely important and made their respective teams what they were. Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 39 minutes ago, BananaB said: Top two got nothing to do with individual play which makes the reasoning so *****. Who does most for his team should be top of the list. The NFL is ***** anyway. I seen an interview today where the reporter asked Josh if the Pro Bowl was lame and he just kind of hummed and hawed and kind of dodged the question. Thought it was pretty funny Agreed... but what Nolan is saying--and he's right--is that those are the things MVP voters value and in that order. And we just have to understand and accept that it won't likely change. 10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: MVP voting should not take place till the Super Bowl is done. As for Jackson vs. Allen, Jackson is not a big game QB. Teams shut him down in the playoffs and showcase his flaws. Allen plays big in big games, just has to get the rest of the team dialed in to get past KC. Bottom line to me, Lamar keeps his team from getting a Lombardi, the team around him keeps Josh from the Lombardi. I actually understand why they do it at the end of the regular season. The MVP would overwhelmingly always be the same as Super Bowl MVP. Mahomes shouldn't have been league MVP this year and voters would have been biased by his postseason and would have given it to him. Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Well, first, unless something goes wrong, Josh is in. They're letting a lot of guys in the HOF now, and by the end of his career, Josh is going to have pretty amazing numbers, where he ever wins a Super Bowl. A lot of TDs, a lot of yards passing and a lot of yards rushing. He's already 8th on the career rushing list, and it's not a stretch for him to get into Vick/Newton territory. And his passing number will blow those guys away. The real problem is the MVP. It's just a weird popularity contest. I don't know who votes, but what's happened the last few years is about November the broadcasters all start speculating about who the MVP might be, naming a top 5, and somehow over the next month they drop names off the list, so that by the end of the season the announcers have built a consensus for one guy or another. As we saw this season, the announcers anointed Lamar before Josh and the Bills had a late season run - by early December they all were saying Lamar is the consensus choice. How can that make sense - it's a 17 game season, and a bunch of announcers decide who's going to be the MVP after 12 games. Plus, of course, the MVP is a regular season award and not a playoff award. Here are the 2023 MVP voters: Emmanuel Acho, FS1 Greg Auman, Fox Sports Howard Balzer, PHNX radio Jarrett Bell, USA Today Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press Tom Brady, Fox Sports Tedy Bruschi, ESPN Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston Charles Davis, CBS Sports Nate Davis, USA Today Howard Deneroff, Westwood One Tony Dungy, NBC Sports Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia Rich Gannon, SiriusXM Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports Lindsay Jones, The Ringer Mike Jones, The Athletic Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan(dot)com Mina Kimes, ESPN Peter King, NBC Sports Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM Jeff Legwold, ESPN Jim Miller, SiriusXM Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus Bruce Murray, SiriusXM Gary Myers, NFL author Laura Okmin, Fox Sports Dan Orlovsky, ESPN Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM Dan Pompei, The Athletic Nora Princiotti, The Ringer Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports Dianna Russini, The Athletic Mike Sando, The Athletic Aaron Schatz, FTN Network Adam Schein, CBS Sports Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Chris Simms, NBC Sports Armando Salguero, Outkick(dot)com Mike Tirico, NBC Sports Ben Volin, Boston Globe Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk 1 Quote
Billl Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Clearly 98% of the voters are just morons and the guy who finished 5th deserved to win. 1 Quote
ToGoGo Posted February 16 Posted February 16 26 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Here are the 2023 MVP voters: Emmanuel Acho, FS1 Greg Auman, Fox Sports Howard Balzer, PHNX radio Jarrett Bell, USA Today Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press Tom Brady, Fox Sports Tedy Bruschi, ESPN Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston Charles Davis, CBS Sports Nate Davis, USA Today Howard Deneroff, Westwood One Tony Dungy, NBC Sports Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia Rich Gannon, SiriusXM Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports Lindsay Jones, The Ringer Mike Jones, The Athletic Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan(dot)com Mina Kimes, ESPN Peter King, NBC Sports Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM Jeff Legwold, ESPN Jim Miller, SiriusXM Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus Bruce Murray, SiriusXM Gary Myers, NFL author Laura Okmin, Fox Sports Dan Orlovsky, ESPN Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM Dan Pompei, The Athletic Nora Princiotti, The Ringer Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports Dianna Russini, The Athletic Mike Sando, The Athletic Aaron Schatz, FTN Network Adam Schein, CBS Sports Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Chris Simms, NBC Sports Armando Salguero, Outkick(dot)com Mike Tirico, NBC Sports Ben Volin, Boston Globe Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk Mina Kimes. Folks, the problem isn’t the narrative. It’s the voters. 1 Quote
prissythecat Posted February 16 Posted February 16 27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Here are the 2023 MVP voters: Emmanuel Acho, FS1 Greg Auman, Fox Sports Howard Balzer, PHNX radio Jarrett Bell, USA Today Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press Tom Brady, Fox Sports Tedy Bruschi, ESPN Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston Charles Davis, CBS Sports Nate Davis, USA Today Howard Deneroff, Westwood One Tony Dungy, NBC Sports Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia Rich Gannon, SiriusXM Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports Lindsay Jones, The Ringer Mike Jones, The Athletic Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan(dot)com Mina Kimes, ESPN Peter King, NBC Sports Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM Jeff Legwold, ESPN Jim Miller, SiriusXM Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus Bruce Murray, SiriusXM Gary Myers, NFL author Laura Okmin, Fox Sports Dan Orlovsky, ESPN Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM Dan Pompei, The Athletic Nora Princiotti, The Ringer Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports Dianna Russini, The Athletic Mike Sando, The Athletic Aaron Schatz, FTN Network Adam Schein, CBS Sports Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Chris Simms, NBC Sports Armando Salguero, Outkick(dot)com Mike Tirico, NBC Sports Ben Volin, Boston Globe Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk interesting list . I believe Carucci didnt put in a first place vote for Josh despite the hometown connection . Quote
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