ColoradoBills Posted February 16 Posted February 16 22 hours ago, HappyDays said: Gun violence is a real problem. So are car accidents. So is heroin overdose. These are the risks of living in a free country, which we accepted a couple hundred years ago. Rights can always be taken away to in theory reduce the chance of tragic untimely death, but personally I'm happy to live in a free country and accept these risks. The risk of any individual being killed in a shooting like this is exceedingly rare. I see people say things like "I'm now scared to go to any public gathering." You're free to have these feelings, but they aren't rational. You're much much much more likely to be killed while commuting to the public gathering than at the public gathering. You're more likely to die while showering to get ready to go out. Don't let these tragic events consume you. I tend to agree with your points. Although, I am an adult (actually becoming an old man). This "gun violence" is here to stay and there is nothing much that can be done about it in today's world. I will say that the destruction of gun violence doesn't end with the victim. At an event like this (and these crazy school shootings) causes a lot of parents to try to explain to young kids WHY it has to be the way it is. I know I wouldn't want to be in that situation. I'll take it a step further and say I'm glad I didn't have to go through something like that when I was a child. Gun violence, road rage, crippling addiction, sexual abuse, among all the other destructive traits, are too prevalent in today's world. I'll admit I feel a little sad that I have become numb to it all. 2
Royale with Cheese Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 hours ago, Bob Jones said: Why on earth would I donate when the 60 or so multimillionaires on the Chiefs (and/or their billionaire owner) could, and should, easily handle it? Because you're doing better by complaining on a message board about others not donating. That's refreshing. Are you under the impression that only rich people need to donate? Are you hurting so much where $5 is going to kill you? 1
Brand J Posted February 16 Posted February 16 11 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said: White policies force offenders to commit astronomical levels of violent crimes on their fellow man? Cmon, how long has this been going on. Sins of past is not an excuse to endlessly continue this cycle. It has to stop, and it cant happen without accountability. The only person that couldve stopped this was the kids who did it. 16 year olds? So born in 2008, these are hardly jim crow kids. It starts with parenting, #1 being present. When pre-teens only model of a father is a neighborhood teenage gang banger, this is going to happen. Its been happening, its never going to stop happening. #1 be present, be accountable #2 stop handing down the mind virus that is telling innocent kids, that other innocent kids that look different, hate them, always will, and will stop at nothing to hold them back. Self fulfilling prophecy planted in their minds before theyve had a chance to even begin to develop Theres no context to mindless violent crime. “Sins of past is not an excuse to endlessly continue this cycle.” Sins of the past is exactly why so many Black people are stuck in this cycle. The second bolded point touches on this. You’re talking about centuries of oppression, where a certain race wasn’t even allowed to read and write. The vast majority were free laborers and didn’t own anything. They didn’t have money. When they were granted 40 acres of property (and later a mule), President Andrew Johnson rescinded Field Order 15 and gave that land back to the slave owners. Reparations of any kind were never given, it was determined that Black folks should simply be happy being free. https://www.history.com/news/40-acres-mule-promise Stopping violent crimes in an inner city starts with parents, true, but when those parents are a product of the same faulty upbringing, how can the cycle be broken? Having access to better education would be my first vote, which would then open a gateway for purpose in many of those youths. But you can’t get that in an impoverished ghetto, so the cycle continues. The only way out of it is an unrealistic option, which would be to take every kid born into that situation - starting now - and immediately transport them to an environment more conducive to success. One with better parents, schools, and an absence of gun culture.
K-9 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 5 hours ago, Bob Jones said: The white kid up in Michigan (Oxford HS) who shot up his school and killed 4 was FIFTEEN when he did that. How long after the shooting was it before we knew who he was? I'll save you the time of looking it up....it was WITHIN DAYS. He was a juvenile. The reason is that the decision was made to charge the Michigan shooter as an adult, which makes all the difference in the release of information. If the juveniles being held in KC end up being charged as adults, then more information will be forthcoming to the public about them and the investigation. 1
BillsShredder83 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 hours ago, kota said: based upon the comments it seems like Taylor would have been better off not donating anything. Yeah all need to stop. honestly smart thing to do is anyonymous donation, or if going public for PR reasons, have statement issued saying we donated to help with funeral right now, as things develop for those injured/identified, we will reach out for ways to help honestly not even getting on her case, this was cool to do, but her PR staff shpouldve known the "billionaire can only donate to one?" hot takes would be plentiful 1
Beck Water Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bob Jones said: The white kid up in Michigan (Oxford HS) who shot up his school and killed 4 was FIFTEEN when he did that. How long after the shooting was it before we knew who he was? I'll save you the time of looking it up....it was WITHIN DAYS. He was a juvenile. I'll save you the trouble of thinking about the difference between maintaining confidentiality when a fellow student, well known to many of his fellow students teachers and school admins, commits a heinous act vs. two juveniles who were likely anonymous to the people around them (and protected by "snitches get stitches" to those who do know them) Nice username by the way. Edited February 16 by Beck Water 1
BillsShredder83 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 21 minutes ago, Brand J said: “Sins of past is not an excuse to endlessly continue this cycle.” Sins of the past is exactly why so many Black people are stuck in this cycle. The second bolded point touches on this. You’re talking about centuries of oppression, where a certain race wasn’t even allowed to read and write. The vast majority were free laborers and didn’t own anything. They didn’t have money. When they were granted 40 acres of property (and later a mule), President Andrew Johnson rescinded Field Order 15 and gave that land back to the slave owners. Reparations of any kind were never given, it was determined that Black folks should simply be happy being free. https://www.history.com/news/40-acres-mule-promise Stopping violent crimes in an inner city starts with parents, true, but when those parents are a product of the same faulty upbringing, how can the cycle be broken? Having access to better education would be my first vote, which would then open a gateway for purpose in many of those youths. But you can’t get that in an impoverished ghetto, so the cycle continues. The only way out of it is an unrealistic option, which would be to take every kid born into that situation - starting now - and immediately transport them to an environment more conducive to success. One with better parents, schools, and an absence of gun culture. i dont at all mean to be dismissive, i can sympathize with all that, sincerely i can. theres nothing we can do to undo the past and any cycle that started. its far from perfect, but obv civil rights have come a long way. at the same time those have improved, id like to see a matched effort. 'dont commit 5xs the violence as others' seems like a pretty low ask, and any 1% effort that community puts into solving this, will carry more weight than government and white society reaching out another 25%. basically this cant be solved, and is proportionately less ineffective to try and have white people extend their handshake even further to help, when the other parties hands are still in their pockets.... we should be trying to meet halfway, not 'we'll drive 5hours and meet you at the coffee shop by your house'. i think thats where the frustration comes from some accountability from within the community would go a long way. theres a frustration in the white community that things on that side of the fence have changed (rightfully so) drastically in even the last 20-30 years, but all we hear from over the fence is 'its not enough' or outright hatred back towards us (been trying to avoid saying 'us' and 'them', as it looks confrontational, using it there as a white dude to share perspective). hate is hate at the end of the day, i feel hated by much of the other side for what happened wayyyyyyyy before i was born, and i didnt contribute to it. i can even understand the 60yr old from the other side seeing me and thinking hes probably the enemy... but what i cant understand is people my age and younger, hating me for the same thing. theres been nothing but progress in my lifetime, my generation isnt guilty of what happened, and with all respect 35year olds and younger have been overall treated well by regular white folks (i.e. regular joes, not cops/courts). im not trying to change anyones mind, or ruffle feathers, just trying to share a fairly honest perspective from a white dude my age. we've done a lot of listening, and theres certainly a fear of sharing a dialogue that honest, but i still think it needs to be heard. ill continue to share 'our' perspective in a friendly, but honest tone. not even because its 'my side of the story', but because the only way change can take place is somewhere in the middle. if both parties cant respectfully share their grievances, there cant be a middle ground. illl also continue to listen, especially from a friendly respectful tone of voice. it will always be the loudest / angriest voices tuned out the most, no matter where its coming from, even if its useful information. the biggest change in violence within the black community, is 100% going to have to come from within itself. 1
Beck Water Posted February 16 Posted February 16 1 hour ago, K-9 said: The reason is that the decision was made to charge the Michigan shooter as an adult, which makes all the difference in the release of information. If the juveniles being held in KC end up being charged as adults, then more information will be forthcoming to the public about them and the investigation. That too, plus the decision to charge his parents. But I believe his name came out well before the charging decisions. The teacher who took a photo of his drawing, the admins who called his parents in for a conference earlier that day, and the parents of his fellow students were not bound to confidentiality, and spoke to the press. The juvenile justice system is bound to confidentiality
boyst Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) Charges filed against two juveniles. Gun charges, no homicide charges of any kind. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/us/kansas-city-super-bowl-celebration-charges.html Edited February 16 by boyst 1
FireChans Posted February 16 Posted February 16 1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said: honestly smart thing to do is anyonymous donation, or if going public for PR reasons, have statement issued saying we donated to help with funeral right now, as things develop for those injured/identified, we will reach out for ways to help honestly not even getting on her case, this was cool to do, but her PR staff shpouldve known the "billionaire can only donate to one?" hot takes would be plentiful The smart thing to do is donate money if you feel strongly about helping somebody, and not give a ***** what people who don’t lift a finger say. 1 1
Beck Water Posted February 16 Posted February 16 17 minutes ago, boyst said: Charges filed against two juveniles. Gun charges, no homicide charges of any kind. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/us/kansas-city-super-bowl-celebration-charges.html Yet. No homicide or assault charges yet. From the article you link: "additional charges are expected" 1 1
BillsShredder83 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 23 minutes ago, boyst said: Charges filed against two juveniles. Gun charges, no homicide charges of any kind. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/us/kansas-city-super-bowl-celebration-charges.html Quote Then, they said, they saw guns being drawn. Two of the men started firing at each other, Mr. King said, with little regard to where their guns were pointing. “They were running away from each other,” Mr. King said. “but they were still firing weapons behind their backs, just not really aiming.” insane. not only in a crowded area, but not even aiming. straight to cage, never come out again. what an absolute disregard for life, of completely innocent. infuriating Quote The person who was killed was identified as Elizabeth Galvan, 43, who was also known as Lisa Lopez-Galvan. She was a host of a local radio program, a mother of two children and, friends said, a passionate supporter of the Kansas City Chiefs. ughhhhhh. really hard for that family to not play the 'what-if' game. what a crazy turn of events for them. have to think they will have a hard time even watching games, or seeing Chiefs hats/shirts the rest of their lives. imagine having that happen to the buffalo bills for you. your favorite thing in the world, and now you cant even see the colors without thinking about how your wife/mom was killed. 'i wish theyd just lost', or 'i wish theyd never even came to KC'. absolutely brutal all around. not gunna lie id have to leave Buffalo after that if i were still there 2
boyst Posted February 16 Posted February 16 15 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Yet. No homicide or assault charges yet. From the article you link: "additional charges are expected" understand. and if they're juvies and under 16 there is a fair chance they're tried as juvies and can get out as early as 24 years old. maybe the fed will come in there and try to play their federal crime games like they do in other crimes - hopefully they do so they can lock them up for life. 1 2
BillsShredder83 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 27 minutes ago, FireChans said: The smart thing to do is donate money if you feel strongly about helping somebody, and not give a ***** what people who don’t lift a finger say. i agree. the lady is a billion dollar business though, she likely has the biggest PR org in the world, whose sole job is to handle something like this. like i said, good on TS for donating.... just noting its weird to have that kinda PR firm and not have them be proactive. id be pissed at them if i were her 1
Doc Brown Posted February 16 Posted February 16 6 hours ago, Bob Jones said: Edit to Add: Just saw that Taylor Swift donated $100k to the family of the woman who was killed. That was very nice of her, although what about the other victims? Many of them will probably have medical bills, lost wages, physical/mental therapy bills, etc. which will amount to way more than the cost of a funeral. That's where you come in. Put up or shut up 1 1 2 1
K-9 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Good thing the Supreme Court struck down Missouri’s Second Amendment Preservation Act otherwise KC law enforcement may not have been able to prosecute the gun charges. It’s beyond ironic.
Bob Jones Posted February 16 Posted February 16 6 hours ago, Bob Jones said: Why on earth would I donate when the 60 or so multimillionaires on the Chiefs (and/or their billionaire owner) could, and should, easily handle it? 46 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: That's where you come in. Put up or shut up You must have missed my earlier post, so I'm putting it here for you. There really should be NO NEED for any "regular Joe/Jane" to have to donate money for this matter. 1
sleeby Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 hours ago, boyst said: if they're juvies and under 16 there is a fair chance they're tried as juvies and can get out as early as 24 years old. Not sure about Missouri but in NY at 16 they would surely be charged as adults for this.
Brand J Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said: i dont at all mean to be dismissive, i can sympathize with all that, sincerely i can. theres nothing we can do to undo the past and any cycle that started. its far from perfect, but obv civil rights have come a long way. at the same time those have improved, id like to see a matched effort. 'dont commit 5xs the violence as others' seems like a pretty low ask, and any 1% effort that community puts into solving this, will carry more weight than government and white society reaching out another 25%. basically this cant be solved, and is proportionately less ineffective to try and have white people extend their handshake even further to help, when the other parties hands are still in their pockets.... we should be trying to meet halfway, not 'we'll drive 5hours and meet you at the coffee shop by your house'. i think thats where the frustration comes from some accountability from within the community would go a long way. theres a frustration in the white community that things on that side of the fence have changed (rightfully so) drastically in even the last 20-30 years, but all we hear from over the fence is 'its not enough' or outright hatred back towards us (been trying to avoid saying 'us' and 'them', as it looks confrontational, using it there as a white dude to share perspective). hate is hate at the end of the day, i feel hated by much of the other side for what happened wayyyyyyyy before i was born, and i didnt contribute to it. i can even understand the 60yr old from the other side seeing me and thinking hes probably the enemy... but what i cant understand is people my age and younger, hating me for the same thing. theres been nothing but progress in my lifetime, my generation isnt guilty of what happened, and with all respect 35year olds and younger have been overall treated well by regular white folks (i.e. regular joes, not cops/courts). im not trying to change anyones mind, or ruffle feathers, just trying to share a fairly honest perspective from a white dude my age. we've done a lot of listening, and theres certainly a fear of sharing a dialogue that honest, but i still think it needs to be heard. ill continue to share 'our' perspective in a friendly, but honest tone. not even because its 'my side of the story', but because the only way change can take place is somewhere in the middle. if both parties cant respectfully share their grievances, there cant be a middle ground. illl also continue to listen, especially from a friendly respectful tone of voice. it will always be the loudest / angriest voices tuned out the most, no matter where its coming from, even if its useful information. the biggest change in violence within the black community, is 100% going to have to come from within itself. Firstly, I applaud you for being open and willing to listen. Whenever race is brought up on these boards it’s often met with roll eye emojis from individuals who don’t care or are unwilling to hear the other side. The pervasive attitude is, “slavery was almost 150 years ago, that has nothing to do with the people of today.” Which of course is incredibly short-sighted. I also sympathize with how you’re viewed by those of another color, when you’ve had absolutely nothing to do with the horrors of the past. After all, your great grandparents may have immigrated much later, or maybe were from the north and had zero connection to it, but alas, skin color is what we first use to judge. When I read the bolded, I saw a poster who wasn’t too informed with the efforts these communities put forth to curb the violence. Chicago for example, arguably the worst of the offending cities, has a number of outreach programs in place to educate youths and lessen gun violence - you can google for proof - but how well are those initiatives working? The complaints I see from program organizers is that other skin colors don’t concern themselves with what’s happening in the hood, which makes their job more difficult. A ridiculous amount of youths are killed every year, but that doesn’t make national news. Mass shooters on the other hand… I told a story about my experience as a black man - getting racially profiled in Staten Island many times - and got a bunch of roll eyes on my post. As if I was embellishing my experience or lying about it. I’m not a defender of black criminals in any way, I think they’re idiots who need to be locked up, but I can also recognize they’re a product of their environment. Environments that communities ARE trying to change, but to little or no avail. I liken these programs to learning Spanish in a classroom setting, but then going home and speaking English, never getting to practice with those around them. That’s probably a crude way to describe the efforts, but I think it has some merit. Everyone needs to be all in to make real change happen, total immersion, but I feel like that’s an unrealistic ask so the cycle continues. 5
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