SoCal Deek Posted February 15 Posted February 15 15 minutes ago, klos63 said: There will be more shootings in the next 24 hours, so we need to wait another 24 and so on... nothing will ever get discussed with that logic. Which laws are not enforced that would prevent shootings? Yes I’m sure right. It’s always way better to write and pass legislation before the facts have been gathered by the authorities.
juno999 Posted February 15 Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: What laws that are sensible are not enforced? I agree w the insane SSRI use in this country. You seem to be stuck on lack of liberal law enforcement in general as a reason to not have gun control? Not sure I get your reasoning. BTW conservative counties have just as much gun violence if not more. How about all the laws regarding border security? You think those existing laws are being enforced? 2 1
paulmm3 Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Bummer. RIP. Shame on those promoting a political agenda coming out of this. 1
nedboy7 Posted February 15 Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yet another sickening tragedy. For those claiming it is solely a mental health issue as some politicians do, then here’s what I want to see: a bill to increase mental health care. Let’s see a bill that dedicates billions to recruitment and training of more mental health care professionals, more trained school counselors, more intervention. If not then I don’t want to hear a damn word from any of those hypocrites. The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, passed by a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives and a Republican-controlled Senate, and signed by President Ronald Reagan on August 13, 1981, repealed most of the Mental Health Systems Act. I don’t see a commitment from conservative states to mental health. Do you? 1 minute ago, juno999 said: How about all the laws regarding border security? You think those existing laws are being enforced? I was discussing gun laws but you move the narrative as you feel fit. Done w you.
SoCal Deek Posted February 15 Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, passed by a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives and a Republican-controlled Senate, and signed by President Ronald Reagan on August 13, 1981, repealed most of the Mental Health Systems Act. I don’t see a commitment from conservative states to mental health. Do you? And this applies to this topic, how exactly? 1
BillsPride12 Posted February 15 Posted February 15 1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said: People used to sleep with their doors unblocked and buy guns through the mail without any background search. Now we live in a society where they have to lock up hand lotion at CVS and babies get shot with stray bullets, sleeping in their cribs. What "progress" we've made. It's sad in a lot of ways we have really gone backwards as a society. Although I don't know what the motivation was behind this most recent shooting was so I won't speculate on this case in particular but speaking more from a general standpoint...we are living in a Country where people are really struggling on a daily basis. People are just not well mentally. We make this world as difficult as we possibly can on people and then we wonder why so many people are struggling with their mental health. Without even getting into the gun control debate, we have to accept that we have a mental health epidemic in this Country and changes are drastically needed. Has anybody ever seen the movie Falling Down from 1992? Now take that and multiply it by 1000 the way the world has evolved since then. 2
Gugny Posted February 15 Posted February 15 2 hours ago, boyst said: Take the number of death by gun. Remove suicide. The rate drops significantly. Take the amount of crime commited with legally obtained guns. You can break it down even further but it's an ugly wormhole to show all of the problems with the simple "gun culture" argument. And... Folks wonder why no one takes arguments about this seriously. A legitimate question was asked and is often asked without a reasonable response. Nearly all of the mass shootings in this country have been by US citizens with legally-obtained firearms.
Buffalo Boy Posted February 15 Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: So your argument is that because bad humans are religious then religion is bad? I see a world full of Abrahamic derived religions bludgeoning each other. I don’t see angels or miracles or any other sort of magic🤷♂️ Tons of beheadings, shootings and wars though….. in the name of some god. A fav lyric of mine: “ People say you go somewhere when you die. But all I know is right now I’m alive. I guess I’ll find out when I’m dead, But I ain’t countin on it.” But hey, Thoughts and prayers 😉 1
K D Posted February 15 Posted February 15 1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said: It's sad in a lot of ways we have really gone backwards as a society. Although I don't know what the motivation was behind this most recent shooting was so I won't speculate on this case in particular but speaking more from a general standpoint...we are living in a Country where people are really struggling on a daily basis. People are just not well mentally. We make this world as difficult as we possibly can on people and then we wonder why so many people are struggling with their mental health. Without even getting into the gun control debate, we have to accept that we have a mental health epidemic in this Country and changes are drastically needed. Has anybody ever seen the movie Falling Down from 1992? Now take that and multiply it by 1000 the way the world has evolved since then. You think life is difficult NOW? Life has never been easier in human history and that is the problem. People have no purpose. We need to get back to strong family values, hard work, and determination. 1 1 2 1
julian Posted February 15 Posted February 15 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: Nearly all of the mass shootings in this country have been by US citizens with legally-obtained firearms. And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate. Edited February 15 by julian 2 1 4
K D Posted February 15 Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: I see a world full of Abrahamic derived religions bludgeoning each other. I don’t see angels or miracles or any other sort of magic🤷♂️ Tons of beheadings, shootings and wars though….. in the name of some god. A fav lyric of mine: “ People say you go somewhere when you die. But all I know is right now I’m alive. I guess I’ll find out when I’m dead, But I ain’t countin on it.” But hey, Thoughts and prayers 😉 If you haven't figured it out yet, humans are bad. They can do bad things in the name of whatever they want: religion, politics, race, geography, tribes, whatever they can latch on to that makes the other side different. Just because bad people can twist something great into something bad means that the words have any less meaning or can change your own life any less. It's a personal journey, I wouldn't be so quick to write it all off. It's never too late. 1 1 1
klos63 Posted February 15 Posted February 15 31 minutes ago, SCBills said: John Doe is 16 years old. Commits a violent crime as a juvenile. Judge is lenient and record is wiped when John Doe turns 18. John Doe jumps someone and is arrested at 18. Pleads down to a misdemeanor. John Doe steals from a store. Arrested. Back out on the street. Does it again. Arrested. Back on the street. Should this person have legal access to a firearm? No. They shouldn’t. But we elect people in these areas that feel, for whatever reason, that they need saving and let them slide through, unflagged in the registry … until the day they legally obtain a firearm and kill someone. People typically tell you who they are. They usually don’t go from strait laced choir boy to staying strapped and taking a life. Or they do get flagged and illegally obtain a gun. Or they have mental health issues that go unchecked and/or medicated… and we, as a society, have no idea how to deal with the fact half this country is under chemical control. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking you to create a story, I'm guessing this john doe isn't a real person. Which laws aren't being enforced? Can you cite a specific law? 29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Yes I’m sure right. It’s always way better to write and pass legislation before the facts have been gathered by the authorities. Yeah, you're probably right. We don't have nearly enough gun violence to to help come up with any solutions yet. Hopefully, someday. 2
SCBills Posted February 15 Posted February 15 13 minutes ago, julian said: And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate. The gun control advocates don’t care when it’s black people gunning down black people in the parts of cities they never go to. It’s only a problem when that violence bleeds out into the areas they feel threatened by. And then they happily invoke the inner city gun violence statistics to back up their position as the moral high ground. 1 2
Buffalo Boy Posted February 15 Posted February 15 Just now, KDIGGZ said: If you haven't figured it out yet, humans are bad. They can do bad things in the name of whatever they want: religion, politics, race, geography, tribes, whatever they can latch on to that makes the other side different. Just because bad people can twist something great into something bad means that the words have any less meaning or can change your own life any less. It's a personal journey, I wouldn't be so quick to write it all off. It's never too late. I spent my youth going to Catholic mass six times a week. I went to a private Christian high school. One of my happiest moments was when my mother, who passed in 2018 , as she knew she had only months to live, told me she knew there was no heaven. Of course, we had a good argument about why she subjected me to all that BS and as with all parents, she was doing the best she could and what she thought was right. It took her till her eighties to break the mental conditioning she’d been subjected to as a depression era girl, but she did. Try doing something nice for someone, not because you believe in something, but because it’s just nice to do nice things. That’s a far more noble cause than “ being a good ( pick your sect)” I don’t have all the answers but I also don’t need to deify that which I can’t comprehend. 3
Dr. K Posted February 15 Posted February 15 (edited) 4 hours ago, Lost said: Raising our children to be decent human beings might help too... just a thought Sure. Let's do that. But not everybody will be able to, so I don’t see this as any solution. In the presence of so many lethal weapons, there will always be enough bad actors around to commit such atrocities. I think the number of weapons and the type of weapons are the fundamental difference between the US and other countries. Edited February 15 by Dr. K
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 15 Posted February 15 (edited) 20 minutes ago, julian said: And next weekend in Chicago just like every weekend another 45 young black kids/men will kill each other and nobody will say a word, silent until the next mass shooting then back onto the gun debate. Myth. Chicago isn't even on list of most dangerous cities. https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/?sh=2e33d4e309a2 In fact, one suburb of Chicago made nation's safest. Edited February 15 by ExiledInIllinois
SoCal Deek Posted February 15 Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, klos63 said: Yeah, you're probably right. We don't have nearly enough gun violence to to help come up with any solutions yet. Hopefully, someday. And you, like many on here, are anxious to solve the problem of this shooting TONIGHT before even understanding what happened. 1
SCBills Posted February 15 Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, klos63 said: Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking you to create a story, I'm guessing this john doe isn't a real person. Which laws aren't being enforced? Can you cite a specific law? I literally answered your question. Its just not an answer you apparently want to hear. You want the band-aid fix. “Give me a specific law!” I did… I gave you multiple laws broken as a precursor to someone who forecasted himself as a threat to society. And the people who want more gun control keep voting for the people who enable that threat. Im telling you that this country has cancer and it’s far deeper than us being able to put a bandage over a cut. 1
Lost Posted February 15 Posted February 15 22 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said: You think life is difficult NOW? Life has never been easier in human history and that is the problem. People have no purpose. We need to get back to strong family values, hard work, and determination. I'm sure AI will fix that right up 🤣 We're two steps away from literally living in the movie Idiocracy. 2
julian Posted February 15 Posted February 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Myth. Chicago isn't even on list of most dangerous cities. https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/?sh=2e33d4e309a2 In fact, one suburb of Chicago made nation's safest. I’m not a big math guy, but last weekend in Chicago 18 people were shot according to local news. Maybe that makes Chicago a safe city, I’m not sure. There were 617 homicides and 2450 shootings across Chicago throughout 2023, according to Chicago Police Department data. Edited February 15 by julian
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