BillsFan130 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea to be clear I am against moving Benford. If I was gonna try any of them at safety it would be Tre actually. Coming out there were people who thought because he wasn't a great long speed guy if he might end up at safety in the NFL. I'm not saying it would be my go to option or anything but if I had brought Tre back and wasn't able to secure an affordable vet at FS I'd be open to trying him there. Agreed about benford. Tre would scare me at safety though. Historically he is a horrible tackler. Not ideal for what you need to have in a safety haha 1 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 16 Posted February 16 25 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Agreed about benford. Tre would scare me at safety though. Historically he is a horrible tackler. Not ideal for what you need to have in a safety haha That's mainly in run support though and I'd see him much more as the centre fielder. Quote
Aussie Joe Posted February 16 Posted February 16 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Okay overall here is my Salary Cap plan for 2024. Starting with an assumption of $242m cap and the Bills being currently circa $51m over the cap. Restructures: Basic restructures (turning salary into amortised bonus): Josh Allen - saving $18m Dawson Knox - saving $2.8m Connor McGovern - saving $2.4m Matt Milano - saving $2.1m Ed Oliver - saving $1.2m Ryan Bates - saving $1.1m Restructure with VOID years: Jordan Poyer - saving $2m Total Saving: $29.6m Estimated cap space: -$27m Pay Cuts: Tre White - saving $6m Nyheim Hines - saving $2.5m Total Saving: $8.5m Estimated cap space: -$18.5m Extensions: Dion Dawkins - saving $6.5m (on the basis of a 2 year extension worth $37m - $18.5m AAV - added to the $10.3m base salary + roster bonuses he was due for this year so a total of $47.3m to spread over 3 years allowing you to lower the cap hit in year 1 - comparator contract Jake Matthews) Rasul Douglas - saving $5m (on the basis of a 2 year extension worth $22m - $11m AAV - added to the $9m base salary + roster bonuses he was due for this year so a total of $31m to spread over 3 years allowing you to lower the cap hit in year 1 - comparator contract Darious Williams) Taron Johnson - saving $6m (on the basis of a 4 year extension worth $50m - $12.5m AAV - added to the $7.6m base salary + roster bonuses he was due for this year so a total of $57.6m to spread over 5 years allowing you to lower the cap hit in year 1 - comparator contract Cam Sutton) Total Saving: $17.5m Estimated cap space: -$1.5m Cuts: Mitch Morse - saving of $8.5m Von Miller - saving of $6.7m (not realised until June 1st) Deonte Harty - saving of $4.2m Siran Neal - saving of $3m Total Saving: $22.4m Estimated cap space: $20.9m (made up of $14.2m + an additional $6.7m from June 1) And you would have 49 players under contract of whom about 38 are realistic players for the 53. They have 10 draft picks and need circa $10.6m to sign their draftees. Conclusion: it's tight. And When you consider they probably need a vet or two at DL and Safety..... it gets very tight. The other "easy" button to press is the restructure on Stef's contract. That saves you another $13m.... but it means the cost of moving on from him after 2024 (which is very much the play I think) costs you $35m in dead cap rather than the $22m in dead cap it is currently slated to cost. The other big saving option is just cut Rasul straight up. That is a $9m saving, no dead money, but having spent a 3rd round pick on him and with the Tre health question that would be brave and I don't expect them to go there. In terms of the decisions I've made above that would be most controversial given opinions here: Cutting Von - impact of keeping him is you have 50 players under contract but only $14.2m total in cap space. Keeping and restructuring Jordan Poyer - impact of cutting him outright is you save an additional $3.4m but the only safety on your roster is Damar Hamlin. Keeping and cutting the pay of Tre - impact of cutting him is neutral on 2024 cap compared to the pay cut. Both save $6m. You could do him as a post June 1 cut and then it opens up $10m in 2024 space but you lose $6m on your pre-June cap space (so you wouldn't even have enough to sign all your draftees before 1 June). Now there will be some other things they can do with VOID years like I am suggesting with Jordan to just eek another million or so out here and there on some of the extensions and get that saving up closer to $25m rather than $17.5m but every time you do that you are kicking the future can that bit harder. Losing the ability to potentially press the Stef reset button makes everything else harder. It does make me lean towards try and get DaQuan Jones back on a one year deal but with a couple of void years to spread the hit out and then probably let every other FA you have walk. Maybe one or two come back on vet minimum $1.2m type deals later, but there is not a lot of scope. They are going to have to accept being younger and thinner on the backend of the roster in 2024 and just hope their luck turns in terms of injuries and their starters can stay relatively healthy. I don't think Elam will be on the roster in 2024. I think they'll try and trade him. it looks too tight ..And it includes cutting Miller which they won’t do…Makes me think they will just restructure Diggs again …so Diggs is here 2024 and 2025 …don’t love it but leaning towards it must be inevitable If you can convince Tre to take a $6m pay cut then yeah .. do that … so he will be back playing for $4m next year though? Agree with a lot of your other points ..including cutting Morse which seems taboo here … Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Just now, Aussie Joe said: it looks too tight ..And it includes cutting Miller which they won’t do…Makes me think they will just restructure Diggs again …so Diggs is here 2024 and 2025 …don’t love it but leaning towards it must be inevitable If you can convince Tre to take a $6m pay cut then yeah .. do that … so he will be back playing for $4m next year though? Agree with a lot of your other points ..including cutting Morse which seems taboo here … Tre is slated to count $16m against the cap in 2024. But he has no new guaranteed money so if the Bills cut him he doesn't get another penny (though we still have to account for the $10m in dead bonus money already paid). If the Bills were to offer him some new guaranteed money (I've suggested about $8m) in exchange for a big paycut on the unguaranteed salary he is due I would think it would be attractive to him. If it isn't fine, he can go. He'd be "playing" for about $8m in new money but only half of that would be accounted for in 2024, with the rest spread across 2025 and possibly a void year or two. He'd then count about $10m against the 2024 cap - the $6m that already counts against the cap from previously paid bonus money, plus $4m of the new money. Which is the same as he counts against the cap if we cut him because as well as the $6m already paid this year a cut (without a post 1 June designation) escalates the other $4m of already paid bonus to the 2024 cap. 1 Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted February 16 Posted February 16 9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: So the thing with that is - can it be structured in such a way that it can be just as easily gotten out of next season? Joe calls it a "non guaranteed extension". Meaning what exactly? That we're able to come up with some savings this year with the ability to cut him next season if it doesn't work without more of a penalty? If there's a way we can save more by keeping him this season with the ability to still let him go without more of a penalty next season if he doesn't return to form - I'd listen to that. I’m no capologist, but the way I understand the idea is that the Bills would change his salary and roster bonus to a signing bonus prorated over 4 years thus decreasing the cap hit by the 7 mill. My guess is it would increase his dead cap hit in 2025 by about 2.5, but according to spotrac.com this would still be favorable as his current dead cap in 2025 is 4.1 vs an active cap of 16+. What I don’t know is void years and things of that nature that would affect our cap for White even if cut this year. The other thing I don’t know is whether an injury settlement is required vs an out-right release. If required, who knows what this might look like in the end. If it is required maybe Joe’s idea is a smarter way to proceed. Quote
noacls Posted February 16 Posted February 16 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Tre is slated to count $16m against the cap in 2024. But he has no new guaranteed money so if the Bills cut him he doesn't get another penny (though we still have to account for the $10m in dead bonus money already paid). If the Bills were to offer him some new guaranteed money (I've suggested about $8m) in exchange for a big paycut on the unguaranteed salary he is due I would think it would be attractive to him. If it isn't fine, he can go. He'd be "playing" for about $8m in new money but only half of that would be accounted for in 2024, with the rest spread across 2025 and possibly a void year or two. He'd then count about $10m against the 2024 cap - the $6m that already counts against the cap from previously paid bonus money, plus $4m of the new money. Which is the same as he counts against the cap if we cut him because as well as the $6m already paid this year a cut (without a post 1 June designation) escalates the other $4m of already paid bonus to the 2024 cap. Doesn't Tre have to pass a physical before he were to get cut? Would injury settlement be only way? Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Just now, noacls said: Doesn't Tre have to pass a physical before he were to get cut? Would injury settlement be only way? It's a good point. Not 100% sure on the rules. 1 Quote
noacls Posted February 16 Posted February 16 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: It's a good point. Not 100% sure on the rules. I'm not sure either. You are pretty knowledgeable so I figured I would ask, thanks. Has to be a CBA guy around here. Lol Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 I'm kind of shocked we haven't heard anything yet, with FA 3.5 weeks away. The Combine is on the 26th, and I think things heat up that week with moves, cuts, restructures...maybe trades. Quote
BuffaloRebound Posted February 16 Posted February 16 There is so much dead weight on the 2024 cap and almost zero free agents that are ‘must sign’ guys. We won 6 games in a row and took KC to the wire with a patchwork D and paying Diggs and Knox like they’re top players at their position. I really hope McBeane takes the opportunity clear a whole lot of non-performing and under performing contracts off the books. 2 3 Quote
SCBills Posted February 16 Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: There is so much dead weight on the 2024 cap and almost zero free agents that are ‘must sign’ guys. We won 6 games in a row and took KC to the wire with a patchwork D and paying Diggs and Knox like they’re top players at their position. I really hope McBeane takes the opportunity clear a whole lot of non-performing and under performing contracts off the books. This is a great point. The cap looks daunting this year, but if we sit back.. who do we really “need” to re-sign? Floyd was good for about half of the year and then officially became a Bills Defensive Lineman when he disappeared in the playoffs. Thanks for holding it down last year, but I wish him well elsewhere. Epenesa is a guy I’d like back if his market isn’t heavy. We could use young pass rushers and he’s a decent DE3 rotational pass rusher. Edwards id take back on a cheap deal if he wants back. Same with Jackson if he doesn’t have much of a market. That’s about it.. zero desire to bring Davis back or any of the DT’s aside from Jones… who I can’t imagine has a crazy market given the injury and age. My biggest concern is that they play with contracts that are moveable/cut-candidates after this coming year when we likely have to eat a Josh Allen big cap hit. This team will go as far as Beane’s drafting takes them these next two years. It’s not dire.. we’re not in a bad spot. The offense almost 95% comes back and we hopefully upgrade via the draft at WR. The defense may take a step back, but who knows what Von is and they don’t show up on the playoffs anyway, so… Just don’t make it so we’re stuck with guys on bad contracts in ‘25 like we are here in ‘24. 1 Quote
Tuco Posted February 16 Posted February 16 As long as we're tossing numbers around like a bunch of experts, and at the risk of coming off as a cynical nitpicker - or a Cliff Claven, I'd like to point out a little something. We need to adjust our numbers. There's a part of the CBA (Article 45) titled "Injury Protection." It hasn't always been a part of the CBA, but has been around for a few years now. Injury protection is a built-in salary guarantee for players who are injured before the end of the previous season, and who are then released before the next season while still injured (unable to pass a physical). Under Article 45, assuming (I know, I know) Tre doesn't have any larger negotiated guarantees we don't know about, he is still guaranteed $2,050,000 of his 2024 salary if released while still injured from 2023. Under the agreement, $850,000 of that would be considered player benefit - which for our discussion means nothing. The remaining $1,200,000, however, will be paid in 2024, and counted as salary - which will also count against the 2024 cap. So when we all look at OTC and Spotrac and see that cutting Tre before the season will save us a little over $6 million in cap space, the reality is, unless Tre has a different, unreported guarantee in place, cutting him will actually save us a little over $4.8 million in cap space. Now you know. 1 1 Quote
jahnyc Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Given our cap situation, I do think, as others have suggested, that we are going to need to do a basic restructure of the Diggs contract for the cap savings it will represent (approximately $13 million). Quote
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 Josh should get us around 27 mil. Von should be asked to re-do his deal. Diggs...anybody's best guess at this point. I think he's due 18 mil in March so if a move is made or contract re-done it's before that Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 16 Author Posted February 16 3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said: There is so much dead weight on the 2024 cap and almost zero free agents that are ‘must sign’ guys. We won 6 games in a row and took KC to the wire with a patchwork D and paying Diggs and Knox like they’re top players at their position. I really hope McBeane takes the opportunity clear a whole lot of non-performing and under performing contracts off the books. The Bill has come due as Beane predicted. He thought we would win a superbowl with who we have and didn't. Most everyone that would be considered the current "Core" is under contract. Its time to take a year, clean the bad cap off the books and hope we hit on the Draft. 8 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Josh should get us around 27 mil. Von should be asked to re-do his deal. Diggs...anybody's best guess at this point. I think he's due 18 mil in March so if a move is made or contract re-done it's before that Im not touching Diggs or Von's contracts. We cant afford to push bad cap numbers into upcoming years. 2 1 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) 7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Sean has already had plenty of time for that. The only WR guaranteed to be on the team at the moment is Shakir. You keep wanting to make Diggs being moved this year an actual thing. It's not. In any way, shape, or form. The earliest Diggs will be moved is next offseason. He doesn't want to be moved, we don't want to move him, his contract makes it a detriment for us to move him this year instead of next year - both from a cap and compensation perspective, and we already will have a massive turnover at the position. We're not going to create a hole at WR1 on top of WR2. I know you're obsessed with multiple guys at the top of this years class. But even the best guys are not sure things to be good WR's in the NFL, especially right after the bat, let alone be the type of guy Diggs has been and can continue to be. Diggs and Shakir are guarantees. Shorter is also WAY more likely to be here than be cut without being given an opportunity to develop as planned. And there's also probably a 50/50 chance that Beane opts to keep Harty on a reduced pay scale rather than cut him. I know you're obsessed with 1st and 2nd Round WR talents. And we're going to get 1. I don't understand that not being enough for you and seemingly being only happy if we get can get not 1, but 2 of them. Edited February 16 by BillsFanForever19 Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted February 16 Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: You keep wanting to make Diggs being moved this year an actual thing. It's not. In any way, shape, or form. Diggs will be in Buffalo through the 2026 season. Quote
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 16 Posted February 16 (edited) 2 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said: You keep wanting to make Diggs being moved this year an actual thing. It's not. In any way, shape, or form. The earliest Diggs will be moved is next offseason. He doesn't want to be moved, we don't want to move him, his contract makes it a detriment for us to move him this year instead of next year - both from a cap and compensation perspective, and we already will have a massive turnover at the position. We're not going to create a hole at WR1 on top of WR2. I know you're obsessed with multiple guys at the top of this years class. But even the best guys are not sure things to be good WR's in the NFL, especially right after the bat, let alone be the type of guy Diggs has been and can continue to be. Diggs and Shakir are guarantees. Shorter is also WAY more likely to be here than be cut without being given an opportunity to develop as planned. And there's also probably a 50/50 chance that Beane opts to keep Harty on a reduced pay scale rather than cut him. I know you're obsessed with 1st and 2nd Round WR talents. And we're going to get 1. I don't understand that not being enough for you and seemingly being only happy if we get can get not 1, but 2 of them. I like Diggs and would prefer to keep him, but: 1. if he doesn’t want to be here - cya! “Where there’s smoke there’s fire”, other comments. & yes I know he also said things supporting him wanting to stay….he’s playing on both sides of the fence intentionally. He doesn’t potential suitors viewing him as wanting out 2. his production was wayyy down while we were winning games. If Joe Brady is going to insist on mainly using him for plays 1-3 yards downfield…he’s not being used to his strengths. Inside slants all day with him. He is elite there. His chemistry with Allen has taken a few steps backward and he dropped a game changing pass. He also started taking plays off when he wasn’t getting the ball 3. a fresh start at WR1 & WR2 with more dynamic players could be really good for Josh. If Mahomes can win a SB by throwing to Booster Boy Kelce, Rookie Rice and MVS…. Allen can win with 2 young WR’s, Shakir and Kincaid Edited February 16 by Warriorspikes51 Quote
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 18 Posted February 18 On 2/16/2024 at 10:03 AM, BillsFan130 said: Agreed about benford. Tre would scare me at safety though. Historically he is a horrible tackler. Not ideal for what you need to have in a safety haha He isn’t a horrible tackler, just isn’t super physical at times. His missed tackle percentage is only slightly higher than Hyde, Poyer, and Johnson. I’d sacrifice some physicality on the back end to add some athleticism. Quote
DapperCam Posted February 18 Posted February 18 On 2/16/2024 at 10:03 AM, BillsFan130 said: Agreed about benford. Tre would scare me at safety though. Historically he is a horrible tackler. Not ideal for what you need to have in a safety haha I think horrible tackler is an exaggeration. I would say average tackler for a CB, and pretty much on par with Hyde. Hyde wasn’t exactly a stalwart in the running game. He mostly just cleaned up guys by tackling them low if they got to the second level. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.