Bills official offseason Cap moves thread.

[st pete gogolak]

5 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Well… I’m sure they would prefer not to cut Morse …but they need to find $80m in savings … and even with that long laundry list noted above they still don’t get there..

 

I would also prefer them to get there without restructuring Diggs and Miller any further … so tough moves like this might have to be made…

 

They had the opportunity to move on from Bates 2 years back … but elected to keep him and match the Bears tender .. so they must have seen something that perhaps we don’t see as yet …we don’t really know what he has at C as Morse hasn’t missed a game there in years …

 

Many experts were praising Anderson’s physical play in the preseason. If Morse is cut, I think they will give Anderson a shot at starting center.

[Aussie Joe]

11 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Many experts were praising Anderson’s physical play in the preseason. If Morse is cut, I think they will give Anderson a shot at starting center.

Might be in the mix …  don’t know why he would be ahead of Bates though ? Was a  tackle at College 

Edited February 15 by Aussie Joe

[GASabresIUFan]

Morse isn’t getting cut unless he says he’s retiring.  If he says he wants to return, he is our starting center.  The only question is how we get his cap hit down.

[Aussie Joe]

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Morse isn’t getting cut unless he says he’s retiring.  If he says he wants to return, he is our starting center.  The only question is how we get his cap hit down.

Starting players move on ( or get moved on) every year … I can’t buy there isn’t even a consideration of moving on from a 32 yr old C when they  are squeezing every dollar

Edited February 15 by Aussie Joe

[FLFan]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Move on from Morse … no need to kick that down the road any further …they must have kept Bates around for a reason …

 

Restructuring Knox concerns me … I would be looking to trade him after this season … he has more value elsewhere than to the Bills … but they can’t trade him this year

 

Unfortunately, trading Knox if that is even possible opens a significant hole in their roster.  The contract is a problem, but that overpay does not change the fact that they need someone with his skill set.  

[EasternOHBillsFan]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

2) White - Roster bonus due in early March - sign an extension but one without any guarantees to 2027.  Allows White time to heal and gives the Bill immediate savings - 7.39

 

I see an injury settlement with Tre in the future... I don't think he will go through another year of rehab work.

[CaptnCoke11]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Morse isn’t getting cut unless he says he’s retiring.  If he says he wants to return, he is our starting center.  The only question is how we get his cap hit down.

Extend him another year.  That will lessen his 2024 cap hit but obviously add more money down the road.  

[Aussie Joe]

16 minutes ago, FLFan said:

Unfortunately, trading Knox if that is even possible opens a significant hole in their roster.  The contract is a problem, but that overpay does not change the fact that they need someone with his skill set.  

I’m not going to lose to much sleep about Knox this year (can’t be traded this offseason)  … there is enough immediate issues …but moving forward decisions have to be made …you want to continue paying TE2 $13m  a year, or pay Brown and Rousseau ? Can’t pay everyone …

 

He is a TE1 on another team though …

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Starting players move on ( or get moved on) every year … I can’t buy there isn’t even a consideration of moving on from a 32 yr old C when they  are squeezing every dollar

Yet they want to cut/move on from Diggs🤷

[Aussie Joe]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Yet they want to cut/move on from Diggs🤷

Who’s saying that ?

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

I see an injury settlement with Tre in the future... I don't think he will go through another year of rehab work.

I agree.

[DCofNC]

I think the most obvious solution is to flip JA and Von along with their massive contracts to the Bears for #1, #7, and Sweat, draft your QB and WR and have money to spare for 5 years.

 

 

I kid of course.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

I see an injury settlement with Tre in the future... I don't think he will go through another year of rehab work.

An injury settlement makes zero sense. Tre is a vet with a non-guaranteed roster bonus due. If the Bills decline to pay that then he’s a FA. No settlement is needed.

 

Injury settlements are used for young players who get put on IR and want to be released so they can sign with another team and get on the field. Teams do them so they don’t have to pay the player his whole salary for the year while he sits on IR.

[BillsFanForever19]

The thing that makes me laugh is that you constantly hear things like:

 

"We allocate too much to Defense"

 

"We need to cut players on Defense and focus on Offense"

 

"(x player) is going to be toast following (x injury) - we need to cut bait"

 

"Cut whoever can get us cap space"

 

But then we have a situation like Tre - coming off two serious injuries, has an out in their contract, at a position where we have more players than we even need and it's like:

 

"Whoa! Not him though!"

Edited February 16 by BillsFanForever19

[GASabresIUFan]

38 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

But then we have a situation like Tre - coming off two serious injuries, has an out in their contract, at a position where we have more players than we even need and it's like:

 

"Whoa! Not him though!"

In general, I agree with your contention why hold onto a twice-injured CB who is unlikely to return at his former all-pro level? However, I get the impression that White is part of the leadership on this team and that Beane likes him.  I also look at our depth beyond the 3 starters (Benford, Douglas, and Johnson) and think that White may still have a future in Buffalo.  Do you trust Elam or Neal if one of the 3 starters gets hurt?

 

That's where the Athletic's idea comes in.  It allows the Bills to get more cap savings than an outright release while still keeping him and allowing him to recover properly from his injury. 

[90sBills]

10 hours ago, Tuco said:

Chris Jones played for something like $20 million. What cap page are you looking at?

Yup with hitting all his incentives he made about 24mil range.

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

In general, I agree with your contention why hold onto a twice-injured CB who is unlikely to return at his former all-pro level? However, I get the impression that White is part of the leadership on this team and that Beane likes him.  I also look at our depth beyond the 3 starters (Benford, Douglas, and Johnson) and think that White may still have a future in Buffalo.  Do you trust Elam or Neal if one of the 3 starters gets hurt?

 

That's where the Athletic's idea comes in.  It allows the Bills to get more cap savings than an outright release while still keeping him and allowing him to recover properly from his injury. 

 

So the thing with that is - can it be structured in such a way that it can be just as easily gotten out of next season?

 

Joe calls it a "non guaranteed extension". Meaning what exactly? That we're able to come up with some savings this year with the ability to cut him next season if it doesn't work without more of a penalty?

 

If there's a way we can save more by keeping him this season with the ability to still let him go without more of a penalty next season if he doesn't return to form - I'd listen to that.

 

It just worries me that the experts say our out is this offseason. And considering we are set at our starting positions, are going to extend Douglas, and the cost of what Tre's set to make is WAAAYYYY more than you want to pay for a 3rd Outside CB (let alone one coming off a 2nd major injury) - it seems obvious to me we can't have anything close to Tre's numbers on our books.

 

As for what's beyond Douglas and Benford on the Outside, I expect Dane to be back. They like him a lot and I don't see anyone beating down the door to steal him away. And Kaiir has shown flashes and was injured last year. When he stepped in against Pittsburgh in the Playoffs, he had a bad penalty but then had a huge pick and played well the rest of the game.

 

When it comes to Backup CB's - Dane and Kaiir are about as good as you can ask for. Teams don't carry 3 starting Calibur CB's. Some teams don't even have 2. And with the way the roster is at other positions, it seems silly to be so loaded at one spot when there's spots on this team where we have holes at starter and at depth behind that.

Edited February 16 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Bills $51m over is assuming a figure of $242 M which is $18m more than last years cap…

 

This may not be “official” as yet .. but has been reported by the usual suspects that seem to get fed all the inside info ( Rappaport ) 

 

It is going to be in that range - $240 $245m or thereabouts.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

So the thing with that is - can it be structured in such a way that it can be just as easily gotten out of next season?

 

Joe calls it a "non guaranteed extension". Meaning what exactly? That we're able to come up with some savings this year with the ability to cut him next season if it doesn't work without more of a penalty?

 

If there's a way we can save more by keeping him this season with the ability to still let him go without more of a penalty - I'd listen to that.

 

 

I set out a possible structure the other week. At the moment cutting him NOW is $10m in dead cap for saving $6m in cap space. 

 

Letting him play this year on his current deal (a non-starter but stay with me for a second) and then cutting him next year is $4m dead cap hit in 2025. 

 

There is a pretty easy extension that you can do with Tre that gets you the same cap saving in 2024 as cutting him ($6m) but it would involve adding somewhere in the region of $3-4m to the dead cap hit in 2025 (taking the total dead cap after next year to $7-8m) if you cut him after this year. 

 

Of course if he returned to form in 2024 and we got the Tre from last year's Washington and Miami games back you'd have your best corner locked in two more years for modest cap hits of about $10m per season. 

 

The reason a deal is easily doable with Tre is because he isn't guaranteed a single extra penny from the Bills at this point. They are on the cap hook for $10.4m but that is money that in cash terms was paid a long time ago. He isn't guaranteed a bean. So the offer from Buffalo would be "here is a small amount of new money" (say about $8m) in the form of a signing bonus that we could account for over multiple years with 2 years left plus a dummy year or two "but in exchange we are slashing your base salary to basically the vet minimum to buy us cap relief." 

 

The question then becomes does Tre take that $8m in hand and figure his best chance to return to form is in the defense where he was an all pro and with an organisation that had supported him through one tricky rehab already or does he say "no, cut me and I'll take my chances of getting more than $8m in guaranteed new money on the market"? 

 

I take your other point - why bring him back if he won't start? That is fair. I just don't see a world where if we get the real Tre White back as we did for 2 games this year he isn't the best corner on the Bills. Rasul Douglas did a nice job when he came in. But he isn't close to what prime Tre is. Some maybe feel the way about the chances of seeing prime Tre again that I do about the chances of seeing a rebound from Von. Again - if you are in that boat you just cut him. But the Bills don't HAVE to cut him. There IS a re-negotiation that makes sense for both parties. But it only makes sense if you still believe Tre White can be this team's best corner. I am in that camp that does.

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Might be in the mix …  don’t know why he would be ahead of Bates though ? Was a  tackle at College 

 

He wouldn't start the competition ahead of Bates. But the fact that at no point in 2023 were the Bills willing to open Alec Anderson a UDFA up to waivers and protected him with a spot on the 53 the entire year tells you something IMO. I think he was inactive every week (if he wasn't it was close) and at no point did they cut him even when they needed to make moves at other spots. I think they see him as a potential starter down the road. He was a college tackle, that's right. So was Mitch Morse.