KC's final TD Play: Tom and Jerry

[MJS]

16 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

That's what I remember hearing...that this was a play the Chiefs took from Daboll's playbook after we used it against them 

 

The Chiefs literally admitted they took this play from the Bills when Daboll used it to score a TD against them a few years ago.

 

Not sure how they could think this since the reason they use the play is because we used it against them.

Still, uninformed fans are convinced that the Bills do nothing right.

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, jkeerie said:

You are making excuses as to the Chiefs weren't good this year and other years and yet they still win SBs.  You are also basically saying that Mahomes has had no advantages in his career whatsover.  Where he has had more than most.  This in no way negates his individual talent.  As to his receivers...the point was all the miscues they were making all season which you point out, stopped in the playoffs.  I'm complementing the team.  They played great!  Mahomes is great!  Now...since you're such a huge Chiefs fan, please go back to their forums and bask in the glow of another Super Bowl versus coming to a competitors forum to brag about your team.

 

I definitely haven’t said that Mahomes hasn’t had any advantages. He had a lot of offensive talent around him in his first few seasons, his defense was very good this year, and his coach is great with quarterbacks. But a lot of these narratives are bogus. You can’t say that the Buffalo staff could never scheme someone open when the very play we’re talking about was taken from the Bills. And you can’t say that Allen’s been at a disadvantage in terms of offensive talent the last few years. 
 

 

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

I definitely haven’t said that Mahomes hasn’t had any advantages. He had a lot of offensive talent around him in his first few seasons, his defense was very good this year, and his coach is great with quarterbacks. But a lot of these narratives are bogus. You can’t say that the Buffalo staff could never scheme someone open when the very play we’re talking about was taken from the Bills. And you can’t say that Allen’s been at a disadvantage in terms of offensive talent the last few years. 
 

 

I don't know what "these narratives" you are talking about that are bogus.  I'm also not saying that the Bills are hampered by play calling (especially since Brady took over) or that Allen has been at a disadvantage.  Not having an advantage is not he same as having a disadvantage.  The Bills receivers this year were not as good as they have had in the past and in the playoffs they dropped passes and did not execute.  That is not a disadvantage.   That is not adversity.  That is bad football, and you cannot expect to win in the playoffs when you play poorly and do not execute.

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:47 PM, jkeerie said:

The point is the Bills have creative plays.  They have worked for the Bills.  The Bills are constantly discredited by fans on this board beyond what they should be.

I actually agree with this sentiment, 100%.

 

We are trying to make this out to be some incredible oh wow only a handful of offensive gurus could have such a master play which is rubbish.  This is not much more than a common play in college.

Edited February 16 by RoyBatty is alive

[Matt_In_NH]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:40 AM, TheFunPolice said:

we need to invest in some WRs

To catch up to the Chiefs

[Motorin']

31 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

To catch up to the Chiefs

 

To pass the Chiefs!

[Buckets]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:00 PM, Old Coot said:

Interesting analysis of the play in which KC scored its winning TD.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/anatomy-of-a-play-how-the-chiefs-won-super-bowl-lviii-with-tom-and-jerry/ar-BB1iampP

 

The play originally was called "Corndog" and later "Tom & Jerry" KC scored 2 TDs in a previous Super Bowl win and the winning TD on Sunday with the play concept.

 

If you look at the links to the three plays in the above link here's what you see:

 

The WR who eventually gets the ball starts from the outside of a bunch. Here moves laterally to ward the center of the formation for about three steps and then does a quick 180 degree turn and moves laterally in the opposite direction to until he gets to the bunch at which point the ball is hiked. Kelsey (who is in the bunch) takes his man inside or up into the end zone. The man in motion runs to the flat and is wide open.

 

An excellent example of Reid scheming a guy open.

 

This is an interesting concept and one that the Bills should incorporate in their Red Zone offense.

Number one that I saw was Mahomes starts running to his right, that freezes the defender in the end zone his thought is I can't let him score. Do I cover a receiver or stop Mahomes?

Doesn't that sound like something the Bills did up until Dorsey took over.

Run to the right, pass or run it in option.

[CincyBillsFan]

On 2/15/2024 at 2:03 PM, SaulGoodman said:

 

I definitely haven’t said that Mahomes hasn’t had any advantages. He had a lot of offensive talent around him in his first few seasons, his defense was very good this year, and his coach is great with quarterbacks. But a lot of these narratives are bogus. You can’t say that the Buffalo staff could never scheme someone open when the very play we’re talking about was taken from the Bills. And you can’t say that Allen’s been at a disadvantage in terms of offensive talent the last few years. 
 

 

You can absolutely say that Allen's has been at a disadvantage versus the Chiefs during the last "few years" if you define "few" as 3 years.

 

*  During the 2021 season the Chiefs had Kelsey AND Hill, and Andy Reid, enough said.

 

*  During the 2022 season the Chiefs had Andy Reid and one of the top 3 rated offensive lines in the NFL the Bills had one of the worst, enough said.

 

*  During the 2023 season for the first time in Allen's career he had similar talent as Mahomes on the O line & among his skill players.  And the Bills beat the Chiefs during the regular season, finished ahead of them to gain home field advantage in the playoffs and then only lost the game when their FG kicker missed a 44 yard kick in the last 2 minutes.  Oh and Mahomes still had Andy Reid as coach AND a championship caliber defense.

 

 

 

 

[SaulGoodman]

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You can absolutely say that Allen's has been at a disadvantage versus the Chiefs during the last "few years" if you define "few" as 3 years.

 

By few, I meant two. I'd agree that having Kelce and Hill together was an advantage. But the Bills' defense was #1 that year and KC's was average at best, with some huge weak spots like Sorenson and Niemann (which Allen and the Bills feasted upon). Also, Diggs and Knox were no slouches, and "Big game Gabe" had FOUR TDs in the 13 seconds game. You guys talk about KC players stepping up in big games, but I don't remember anyone stepping up like that. Mahomes' defense consistently crapped the bed that night, including DBs falling down at the most inopportune times (one left Davis wiiiiiiide open on a 4th and long desperation play). And his normally excellent kicker missed two easy kicks. 

 

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

*  During the 2021 season the Chiefs had Kelsey AND Hill, and Andy Reid, enough said.

 

*  During the 2022 season the Chiefs had Andy Reid and one of the top 3 rated offensive lines in the NFL the Bills had one of the worst, enough said.

 

*  During the 2023 season for the first time in Allen's career he had similar talent as Mahomes on the O line & among his skill players.  And the Bills beat the Chiefs during the regular season, finished ahead of them to gain home field advantage in the playoffs and then only lost the game when their FG kicker missed a 44 yard kick in the last 2 minutes.  Oh and Mahomes still had Andy Reid as coach AND a championship caliber defense.

 

 

You're just highlighting things that the Bills didn't have, while not mentioning what they did have or what KC didn't. It's hard to argue that KC's offensive talent was better than Buffalo's in 2022. A wash at best. Bills were better basically everywhere but TE and interior OL. And the interior OL wasn't/isn't even particularly good at run blocking. KC's tackles were both pretty bad. Mahomes made them look much better than they were. 

 

And to say they had similar talent this year is silly. KC had one good WR, who didn't really emerge until late. The rest were a disaster. To the point they had to healthy scratch two players who were expected to play large roles this year out of fear that they'd screw something up. The receiving corps was a national punchline all year long. Gabe Davis would have been the best Chiefs WR before Rice's emergence, and he was Buffalo's 5th or 6th best receiving weapon. Bills had two good TEs (one very talented). KC had one, and he started to show his age. Buffalo had a weaker interior OL but much better tackles. Like the year before, Mahomes made the tackles look better than they were. And Cook is arguably better than Pacheco. Regardless, their ground game was more consistently effective. 

 

I very much doubt that Allen would have had a lot of success in KC's offense this year. 

 

Also, you can't reduce the playoff game to a missed kick (by a kicker who was 2/5 in the postseason) while neglecting to mention that you won the game in KC due to one of the luckiest and most random flags ever. 

 

Edited February 19 by SaulGoodman

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

By few, I meant two. I'd agree that having Kelce and Hill together was an advantage. But the Bills' defense was #1 that year and KC's was average at best, with some huge weak spots like Sorenson and Niemann (which Allen and the Bills feasted upon). Also, Diggs and Knox were no slouches, and "Big game Gabe" had FOUR TDs in the 13 seconds game. You guys talk about KC players stepping up in big games, but I don't remember anyone stepping up like that. Mahomes' defense consistently crapped the bed that night, including DBs falling down at the most inopportune times (one left Davis wiiiiiiide open on a 4th and long desperation play). And his normally excellent kicker missed two easy kicks. 

 

 

You're just highlighting things that the Bills didn't have, while not mentioning what they did have or what KC didn't. It's hard to argue that KC's offensive talent was better than Buffalo's in 2022. A wash at best. Bills were better basically everywhere but TE and interior OL. And the interior OL wasn't/isn't even particularly good at run blocking. KC's tackles were both pretty bad. Mahomes made them look much better than they were. 

 

And to say they had similar talent this year is silly. KC had one good WR, who didn't really emerge until late. The rest were a disaster. To the point they had to healthy scratch two players who were expected to play large roles this year out of fear that they'd screw something up. The receiving corps was a national punchline all year long. Gabe Davis would have been the best Chiefs WR before Rice's emergence, and he was Buffalo's 5th or 6th best receiving weapon. Bills had two good TEs (one very talented). KC had one, and he started to show his age. Buffalo had a weaker interior OL but much better tackles. Like the year before, Mahomes made the tackles look better than they were. And Cook is arguably better than Pacheco. Regardless, their ground game was more consistently effective. 

 

I very much doubt that Allen would have had a lot of success in KC's offense this year. 

 

Also, you can't reduce the playoff game to a missed kick (by a kicker who was 2/5 in the postseason) while neglecting to mention that you won the game in KC due to one of the luckiest and most random flags ever. 

 

 

I agree with most of this but there was nothing random or unlucky about the flag on Toney. A bad player, made a bad play. All of these games between the two teams are now coming down to either a bad player making a mistake or a good player making a great play. 

[Westside]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:04 PM, BringBackFergy said:

Fire McDermott!!

Fire Brady!! 
Fire Pegula!!

Don’t forget our crappy fans, according to the latest fan poll, we suck balls. So I say why stop there? Let’s fire the fans as well. That way we would be free to root for a better team!?

It’s a win-win! 👍🏻

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

I very much doubt that Allen would have had a lot of success in KC's offense this year.

 

I believe that the Chiefs would have had a better regular season record with Allen at QB this season and still would have won the Super Bowl.

 

 

[SaulGoodman]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with most of this but there was nothing random or unlucky about the flag on Toney. A bad player, made a bad play. All of these games between the two teams are now coming down to either a bad player making a mistake or a good player making a great play. 

 

Nothing random or unlucky? Come on, man. It was literally the first time that had been called in Arrowhead in 25 years and the first time in Andy Reid's entire career. Also, he'd been lining up that way the entire game and they looked the other way until that moment, which just happened to erase a classic play that likely would have won the game. That's the very definition of horrible luck. 

 

The reason they started calling offensive offside occasionally this year was due to linemen using it to gain an advantage in the "tush push." The new level of enforcement wasn't intended for WRs. Which is why it was only called on a WR a couple times all year, and they looked the other way at receivers lining up offside every week. Happens all the time. 

Edited February 19 by SaulGoodman

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Nothing random or unlucky? Come on, man. It was literally the first time that had been called in Arrowhead in 25 years and the first time in Andy Reid's entire career. Also, he'd been lining up that way the entire game and they looked the other way until that moment, which just happened to erase a classic play that likely would have won the game. That's the very definition of horrible luck. 

 

The reason they started calling offensive offside occasionally this year was due to linemen using it to gain an advantage in the "tush push." It wasn't meant for WRs. Which is why it was only called on a WR a couple times all year, and they looked the other way at receivers lining up Offside every week. Happens all the time. 

 

It really doesn't happen all the time. That is a narrative that Chiefs fans have written to fot their agenda.

[SaulGoodman]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It really doesn't happen all the time. That is a narrative that Chiefs fans have written to fot their agenda.

 

How would you know that? Are you actually studying the feet of WRs on every play of every game?

 

I've seen numerous screenshots of players that were further offside than Toney and it wasn't called. Like I said, it was only called a couple times all year, and it just happened to erase THAT play in that moment. You can't seriously claim that Bills fans wouldn't consider that unlucky if it had happened to them. 

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

How would you know that? Are you actually studying the feet of WRs on every play of every game?

 

I've seen numerous screenshots of players that were further offside than Toney and it wasn't called. Like I said, it was only called a couple times all year, and it just happened to erase THAT play in that moment. You can't seriously claim that Bills fans wouldn't consider that unlucky if it had happened to them. 

 

I see receivers check with the official routinely. Always have. It happens literally every game. Toney didn't. That is on nobody but Toney. He is dumb. And he did a dumb thing. And the officials penalised him for it.

Edited February 19 by GunnerBill