If McDermott doesn’t get it done, would the Bills bring in Shanahan if he left SF after next season?

[FireChans]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I know this is an unpopular opinion but Shanahan wasn't to blame for the Super Bowl loss. Purdy was. An offense can't function consistently with a QB that has zero ability to make plays with any sort of mess in the pocket. It's a minor miracle that their offense worked as well as it did this season. Deebo Samuel also clearly wasn't close to healthy, so you take away the #1 WR combined with a limited QB going against a stellar defense, no one should be surprised by the result. His team also held the Chiefs to 3 points in the 1st half, and just 1 TD in regulation which only came off of a muffed punt. As far as coaching goes it doesn't get much better than that. I get the complaint about his unwillingness to run but the Chiefs were focusing on shutting the run down all night because they had no fear that Purdy's arm would take advantage of those favorable looks.

 

It's silly to compare Shanahan's record against the Chiefs in the playoffs versus McDermott's. One of them has a QB capable of matching Mahomes' play in the playoffs, the other has a backup QB. At least Shanahan's team didn't get steamrolled the entire game. I mean this has got to be the only place on the internet where anybody places McDermott and Shanahan in the same conversation.

 

So of course I would be enthralled if we somehow ended up with Kyle Shanahan. Hopefully the 49ers are dumb enough to make him the sacrificial lamb next year and then inevitably fall into purgatory when their QB problem doesn't magically solve itself. We could have our pick of the litter if McDermott fails again - Ben Johnson, Kyle Shanahan, Mike Vrabel. Who wants their chance with a top 2 QB and a good core of young talent?

 

The way Shanny evaluates QB’s, he’ll probably trade away Josh Allen to have Mac Jones 2.0 run his system.

[SoTier]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When you play for Kyle Shanahan you don't have the authority to change plays at the line beyond the very strict set rules. You paint by the numbers he draws or he dumps you and gets someone who will. In Kyle Shanahan's offense the Quarterback is an extension of Kyle's brain. That is how it has to work. It is non-negotiable. 

 

^^^

 

16 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Then I don't think Shanahan/Allen would work. Maybe that's why he didn't go after Brady in 2020 either 

 

Elite QB's aren't going to continously go with meh playcalls. 

 

^^^

 

16 hours ago, DJB said:

Look at his QB man . 
 

Allen would be unfair in the Shanny system 

 

Bull manure.   Read the two posts above from GunnerBill and Billsfanatic.  They are spot on.  Allen wouldn't be Allen in the Shanny system.  He'd be Brock Purdy  or Jimmy Garappolo or he'd be on another team.

 

Andy Reid had a Purdy lookalike in Alex Smith for 5 years.     He made the made the playoffs 4 of those years but never got beyond the divisional round.  Reid never hesitated to send Smith packing after he acquired Mahomes in 2017.   Mahomes has turned into the best QB in the NFL under Reid's tutelage. 

 

I think Mahomes and Allen would have developed into great QBs under either Reid or McDermott, but  neither have would developed into anything special under Shanahan.  He wouldn't have given them the chance because they simply aren't his kind of QB.   The very traits that make Mahomes and Allen great -- that separate franchise QBs from game managers -- are the very ones that Shanahan dislikes.   It would be a disaster for everybody involved.

 

Football players and coaches are people not robots.   The traits and philosophy that Shanahan has made Purdy into a pretty good NFL QB, but would diminish the effectiveness of Mahomes and Allen.   The traits and philosophies that Reid and McDermott have wouldn't work with Purdy but have enabled Mahomes and Allen to find greatness.

 

12 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Shanahan made it to the SuperBowl with Brock Purdy

McDermott can't get out of the divisional round with Josh Allen

 

If the Bills played in the NFC and the Niners in the AFC, I doubt you'd could say that.

 

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Unless they were to go with the hot OC/DC type like Ben Johnson then the only proven coach out there is Bill and Pete. The Seahawks forced Pete Caroll to step down as HC and take an advisor position with them. At this point I don't know if he would want to come east. He did win a Super and National Championship. 

 

At this point, I'm not sure I'd call Belichick and Carroll has beens but I think that they should both just call it careers as HCs.   How many brilliant OCs or DCs have turned out to be crappy HCs?   Probably more than have become great IMO.   The track record of "great" collegiate HCs successfully coaching in the NFL in recent years has been dismal.   So, what's the point of firing McDermott if you don't have somebody better to replace him?   Change for the sake of change makes no sense in any endeavor.   You make a change when you have a realistic expectation of improving not when you would just be throwing manure at a wall and hoping what sticks will be better than what you've got now.

[Fetou]

A head coach known for losing superbowls leading a team known for losing superbowls. Imagine what could be accomplished

[BigDingus]

14 minutes ago, Fetou said:

A head coach known for losing superbowls leading a team known for losing superbowls. Imagine what could be accomplished

 

But both were against the best team of this era/newly crowned dynasty... And with Jimmy G and Brock Purdy at QB.

 

I might be in the minority, but I'd take Josh Allen paired with Shanan over the Chiefs almost every time!

 

Also, if we just made it to a SB, that means we already got past the Chiefs. In that scenario, I'd definitely favor the Bills to win regardless of opponent! 😁

[Sweats]

20 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Okay, we'll call this Corollary One to the Schottenheimer Rule - If one part of the team hasn't performed in the past, that part of the team will continue not to perform in the future unless the coach is changed.  It's the same thing.   You're assuming that the future will be the same as the past, and that the people responsible for the past cannot improve.  

 

People change and get better at their jobs all the time, year after year.  

 

 

 

.....and some get worse.

 

Some people either don't change with the times or refuse to change their mental philosophies to keep up with the current ongoing situations, whether by stubbornness or just an ill refusal of change in general. Some just keep plodding away with the same mentality that it has worked in the past, so eventually it may work in the future.

We've all seen coaching philosophies that have failed over the years, we've all seen philosophies evolve with the times and situations....coaches that realize the need to change, grow and evolve are the ones hoisting the Lombardi year in and year out. Coaches that are stubborn and refuse to change, grow and evolve are left by the wayside.

We see it on "Black Monday" every year.

[TheFunPolice]

no thanks

 

McDermott has his flaws but he is at least showing the desire and ability to grow. 

[PBF81]

On 2/13/2024 at 8:20 AM, GunnerBill said:

Swap the two teams divisions and leave everything else untouched the Bills have been to multiple Superbowls and the 9ers haven't made any.

 

Not sure I undestood you correctly, but if so, you do realize that the records of the teams in the AFCE since Brady retired four seasons ago, are:  

 

10-6,   7-9,   2-14

 

10-7,   9-8,   4-13 

 

9-8,    8-9,    7-10 

 

11-6,   7-10,    4-13 

 

And that the QBs during that span, other than Tua, have been Fitzpatrick, Wilson, Darnell, Jones, and Newton, right?  

 

The AFCE has statistically been as easy as it's been since the '90s.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not sure I undestood you correctly, but if so, you do realize that the records of the teams in the AFCE since Brady retired four seasons ago, are:  

 

10-6,   7-9,   2-14

 

10-7,   9-8,   4-13 

 

9-8,    8-9,    7-10 

 

11-6,   7-10,    4-13 

 

And that the QBs during that span, other than Tua, have been Fitzpatrick, Wilson, Darnell, Jones, and Newton, right?  

 

The AFCE has statistically been as easy as it's been since the '90s.  

 

The AFC has been the better conference. Without question. I accept the AFCE has been an easier division than the NFCW, that is fair, I'm not sure I buy the AFCE has been as easy as it has since the 90s.... there was a run there after the Jets with Rex until the Bills rose up where no second placed team won double digit games. It has happened in three of the four years that the Bills have won the division. 

 

Put the 49ers in the AFC playoff field I doubt they have made a Superbowl. They would get out Quarterbacked too often. Put the Bills in the NFC playoff field I am pretty confident they'd have made at least one. 

[Shaw66]

43 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

.....and some get worse.

 

Some people either don't change with the times or refuse to change their mental philosophies to keep up with the current ongoing situations, whether by stubbornness or just an ill refusal of change in general. Some just keep plodding away with the same mentality that it has worked in the past, so eventually it may work in the future.

We've all seen coaching philosophies that have failed over the years, we've all seen philosophies evolve with the times and situations....coaches that realize the need to change, grow and evolve are the ones hoisting the Lombardi year in and year out. Coaches that are stubborn and refuse to change, grow and evolve are left by the wayside.

We see it on "Black Monday" every year.

First, in my experience, very few people get worse at their jobs, at least until age begins to erode their abilities.  Very few people. 

 

Second, yes, some people refuse to change.   However, you're ignoring that McDermott is a person whose core principles include a commitment to continuous improvement, lifelong learning, and change.   He is all about growth and change to achieve objectives.  

 

For example, the Bills were among the very most successful teams transitioning their entire operation when COVID hit.  His leadership allowed the Bills to continually change and revamp their procedures as new NFL rules were handed down.   Why?   Because McDermott has built an organization that embraces change.  

 

So, yeah, some coaches get fired because they have one and only one system and they don't change.   That isn't McDermott. 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The AFC has been the better conference. Without question. I accept the AFCE has been an easier division than the NFCW, that is fair, I'm not sure I buy the AFCE has been as easy as it has since the 90s.... there was a run there after the Jets with Rex until the Bills rose up where no second placed team won double digit games. It has happened in three of the four years that the Bills have won the division. 

 

Put the 49ers in the AFC playoff field I doubt they have made a Superbowl. They would get out Quarterbacked too often. Put the Bills in the NFC playoff field I am pretty confident they'd have made at least one. 

I think the weakness of the AFC East is a bit of a myth.  During the first two decades of this century, the Bills-Jets-Dolphins had collective bad records because they had to play the Patriots twice a year.   That meant that in most seasons, each of those teams had to go 10-4 against the rest of the schedule if they wanted to make the playoffs.   And, in fact, over the period of the Pats dominance, the AFCE east teams had a better record against the Pats than the rest of the league had against the Pats.  We're seeing the same thing now in the AFC West.  When a truly dominant team comes along, the other teams in their division suffer.  

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

I think the weakness of the AFC East is a bit of a myth.  During the first two decades of this century, the Bills-Jets-Dolphins had collective bad records because they had to play the Patriots twice a year.   That meant that in most seasons, each of those teams had to go 10-4 against the rest of the schedule if they wanted to make the playoffs.   And, in fact, over the period of the Pats dominance, the AFCE east teams had a better record against the Pats than the rest of the league had against the Pats.  We're seeing the same thing now in the AFC West.  When a truly dominant team comes along, the other teams in their division suffer.  

 

Those two sentences are slightly contradictory. I think in their near two decades of dominance the Pats swept the East twice - hence the AFCE having a slightly better rate of success against them. Also 9-7 made the playoffs plenty of times in the 16 game season. If you could nick one against the Pats then 8-6 the rest of the way would get you in. 

 

I agree that a dominant team impacts the records of the other teams and in  a 16 or 17 game sample size it arguably impacts it too greatly, but at the same time The Bills have won four divisions in a row and three times the runner up have won double digit games. So I do think it is stronger now than at any time since the initial Rex Ryan effect wore off in NY. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The AFC has been the better conference. Without question. I accept the AFCE has been an easier division than the NFCW, that is fair, I'm not sure I buy the AFCE has been as easy as it has since the 90s.... there was a run there after the Jets with Rex until the Bills rose up where no second placed team won double digit games. It has happened in three of the four years that the Bills have won the division. 

 

Put the 49ers in the AFC playoff field I doubt they have made a Superbowl. They would get out Quarterbacked too often. Put the Bills in the NFC playoff field I am pretty confident they'd have made at least one. 

 

Point taken.  Keep in mind however that nearly 40% of games are divisional games.  

 

Like Brady had, going into a season knowing that you have a 5-1 or 6-0 positive handicap really grades the skids.

 

We've had a similar luxury since 2020 and I've the past four seasons that SF also would have had.  

 

That was the crux of my post, responding to the focus on the division.

 

But little of any disagreement to the above.  

 

 

[saundena]

Shanahan was the single biggest reason why the 49ers just lost the SB.  His play calling in the 3rd quarter was awful allowing the Chiefs to build momentum and get back into the game.  He also should have deferred the ball in overtime.

 

Shanny's performance in the SB this year was much worse then 13 seconds.  It should be an NFL case study in how NOT to coach in big games.

[eball]

God I hope not.  If McD ever coached like Shanahan does in the biggest games this board would completely melt down.

 

[dpberr]

As it pertains to Chiefs killers, I'd say McDermott and the Bills  *are* the closest at doing it of all the teams in the NFL. 

 

How is Kyle Shanahan any better?  McDermott does more with less. 

 

[CSBill]

Why is this even a thread? It seems like a lot of "ifs" here.

 

What about if Vince Lombardi returns from the dead next year and if the Bills lose in the AFC Championship? If they then fired McDermott, would they hire Vince if he wanted the job?

[4merper4mer]

27 minutes ago, CSBill said:

Why is this even a thread? It seems like a lot of "ifs" here.

 

What about if Vince Lombardi returns from the dead next year and if the Bills lose in the AFC Championship? If they then fired McDermott, would they hire Vince if he wanted the job?

Holy crap dude Kyle Shanahan is now on Vince Lombardi’s level? 

[Don Otreply]

What’s up with these (puff puff pass) “Highdeas” that folk here love to tell everyone about, Y’all should keep your (puff puff pass) stoned fantasies to yourself cause that sh-t is never happening 🤣