Allen needs to mentally overpower Mahomes

[beebe]

Just now, Success said:

 

LOL

 

The previous poster was 100% correct.  You're trying too hard.

 

Andy Reid made many NFCCG's and a SB.  Pundit narratives are clownish much of the time.

 

Spagnola stopped arguably the greatest offense in history to win a SB.

 

And Veach has quite obviously built a top defense for that team - which, clearly, has allowed Mahomes to win more games without having to score as much as Allen.  That big Mahomes offense didn't light up the scoreboard in the AFCCG & SB.

 

You're wrong, quite simply.  I'll say it again:  football is a team game.  No one would argue that Mahomes has had better teams & coaches than Allen.

 

No one.

 

 

DVOA rankings of the Bills and Chiefs last four years:

 

2023: Bills #3, Chiefs #5

2022: Bills #1, Chiefs #4

2021: Bills #2, Chiefs #6

2020: Bills #3, Chiefs #5

 

The Bills have built a superior all-around team to the Chiefs, fueled largely by a defense that until this year was better than the Chiefs every season of Allen and Mahomes' careers. 

[BananaB]

38 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

They won two division titles in five years with Alex Smith, missed the playoffs once, and lost playoff games to a team that didn't score a single TD and another playoff game to Marcus Mariota who caught a TD pass from Marcus Mariota. Playoff record with Alex Smith: 1-4. 

 

Playoff record with Mahomes: 15-3 and three Super Bowls wins. 

 

Hmm. 

So they were in the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and won their division twice kind of nothing…. Oh yeah that ***** terrible. 😂 

 

Holy *****, probably the dumbest ***** I read on this board in years

Edited February 17 by BananaB

[Success]

3 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

DVOA rankings of the Bills and Chiefs last four years:

 

2023: Bills #3, Chiefs #5

2022: Bills #1, Chiefs #4

2021: Bills #2, Chiefs #6

2020: Bills #3, Chiefs #5

 

The Bills have built a superior all-around team to the Chiefs, fueled largely by a defense that until this year was better than the Chiefs every season of Allen and Mahomes' careers. 

 

And a defense that was clearly a paper tiger come playoff time.  And with coaching that is clearly inferior to what the Chiefs have.

 

You lost this debate when you tried to argue that QB's beat each other. They don't.  Allen arguably played better than Mahomes in the 13 seconds game, and in this most recent playoff game.  His team & coaches let him down MUCH more than what we have seen w/ KC.

 

Regular season stats don't matter if certain units fold in the playoffs.

 

Edited February 17 by Success

[beebe]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

And a defense that was clearly a paper tiger come playoff time. 

 

 

A paper tiger come playoff time. Because they lost to ... who ...

 

Mahomes. 

Mahomes again.

Joe Burrow.

Mahomes again.

 

Paper Tiger ... or ran into the best QB we've probably ever seen three times?

[Success]

3 minutes ago, beebe said:

A paper tiger come playoff time. Because they lost to ... who ...

 

Mahomes. 

Mahomes again.

Joe Burrow.

Mahomes again.

 

Paper Tiger ... or ran into the best QB we've probably ever seen three times?

 

Paper tiger.  The Ravens basically stopped Mahomes.  The Niners limited him much more than we did.  Cincy made him look terrible after the 13 seconds game.

 

And don't forget how they looked against Skylar Thompson.

 

I'll give you credit.  You're really trying.

 

Edited February 17 by Success

[BananaB]

58 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Mahomes has played six NFL seasons. He's led a team that was literally nothing before he arrived to six straight AFC championship games. The Chiefs have hosted five of them. They've won four of them. They've had three Super Bowl wins. Mahomes is a two-time league MVP, a three-time Super Bowl MVP, a multi-time All Pro. His Chiefs have beaten Allen's Bills all three meetings in the playoffs, two home and one road. He's 15-3 in the postseason with 5,135 yards, 41 TDs and 8 INTs. His playoff losses have been to Brady twice (once in OT) and another OT game. He's rallied his team from 10-point deficits in three different Super Bowls. He's led a 24-point playoff rally and is 7-for-7 rallying a trailing team to a score inside 1 minute in playoff games. He's led his team down the field in 30 seconds to force OT in one playoff game and in 13 seconds to win another. He's won two Super Bowls with league-average defenses and another with the worst collection of receivers in the league. 

 

Josh Allen is 5-5 career in the playoffs. He's beaten the likes of Skylar Thompson, Mason Rudolph, fossil Phillip Rivers, Mac Jones and playoff choker Lamar. 

 

Your statement has no basis in fact. Your projection going forward ignores a six-year sample size.

Josh Allen took a team that snuck into playoffs with a 9-7 record after a 17 year draught. When his first time HC took over they pretty much stripped the O down to the bare minimum, built his D then drafted Josh. He took them to the playoffs his second year and the been a contender ever since and probably KCs biggest challenge over the past 4 seasons. Two great QBs drafted to two totally different situations. Mahommes the missing link of an already solid football team, Allen the answer to two decades of sorrow

Edited February 17 by BananaB

[beebe]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Paper tiger.  The Ravens basically stopped Mahomes.  The Niners limited him much more than we did.  Cincy made him look terrible after the 13 seconds game.

 

And don't forget how they looked against Skylar Thompson.

 

I'll give you credit.  You're really trying.

 

 

The Chiefs have scored the following in playoff games under Mahomes: 26, 27, 17, 25, 27, 23, 38, 42, 42, 24, 22, 38, 9, 51, 35, 31, 31, 31. That's an average of 30 points per game, with the vast majority of games being played in cold conditions. There sure are a lot of paper tiger defenses out there! 

[90sBills]

36 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You clearly don't know golf either

Brady is Tiger

 

Mahomes is Rahm

Allen is probably Rory or possibly Speith

 

I think in golf context Brady would be Nicklaus and Mahomes would be Tiger. When Tiger came on the scene he was doing things golf hasn’t seen. Had a great start to his career. It was a forgone conclusion that he would break Nicklaus’ majors record. Well we all know what has happened. Mahomes has started amazingly. Let’s see how it unfolds. Even though he’s not a Bills you gotta be impressed if you’re a football fan. We’re witnessing history. 

[Success]

Just now, beebe said:

 

The Chiefs have scored the following in playoff games under Mahomes: 26, 27, 17, 25, 27, 23, 38, 42, 42, 24, 22, 38, 9, 51, 35, 31, 31, 31. That's an average of 30 points per game, with the vast majority of games being played in cold conditions. There sure are a lot of paper tiger defenses out there! 

 

Know what they call that?

 

A goalpost move.  It's what people do when they're losing a debate.

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, 90sBills said:

I think in golf context Brady would be Nicklaus and Mahomes would be Tiger. When Tiger came on the scene he was doing things golf hasn’t seen. Had a great start to his career. It was a forgone conclusion that he would break Nicklaus’ majors record. Well we all know what has happened. Mahomes has started amazingly. Let’s see how it unfolds. Even though he’s not a Bills you gotta be impressed if you’re a football fan. We’re witnessing history. 

I was just trying to use active guys

 

In this case (credit to @SWATeam) Allen would probably be Daly and I like your tiger/Nicklaus comp

[GunnerBill]

49 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Paper tiger.  The Ravens basically stopped Mahomes.  The Niners limited him much more than we did.  Cincy made him look terrible after the 13 seconds game.

 

And don't forget how they looked against Skylar Thompson.

 

I'll give you credit.  You're really trying.

 

 

They looked great against Skylar. The offense and special teams kept putting them in holes. Skylar had two drives over 30 yards all game.

[Success]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They looked great against Skylar. The offense and special teams kept putting them in holes. Skylar had two drives over 30 yards all game.

 

That's certainly fair.  But in general, the Bills D has let the team down in the playoffs.  They haven't played like their regular season ranking.

 

I think their ranking is often inflated by how well our offense does, and Allen keeping them off the field for large portions of a game.  This past season, I saw them as a true top 5 defense, and even top 3.  But losing so many players obviously changed that by the time we played KC.

 

[BananaB]

22 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's certainly fair.  But in general, the Bills D has let the team down in the playoffs.  They haven't played like their regular season ranking.

 

I think their ranking is often inflated by how well our offense does, and Allen keeping them off the field for large portions of a game.  This past season, I saw them as a true top 5 defense, and even top 3.  But losing so many players obviously changed that by the time we played KC.

 

Also seen them as the worst D in the league from mid October to end of November 

Edited February 17 by BananaB

[beebe]

33 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's certainly fair.  But in general, the Bills D has let the team down in the playoffs.  They haven't played like their regular season ranking.

 

I think their ranking is often inflated by how well our offense does, and Allen keeping them off the field for large portions of a game.  This past season, I saw them as a true top 5 defense, and even top 3.  But losing so many players obviously changed that by the time we played KC.

 

 

Bills defense in playoff games, Josh Allen era: 

 

vs Texans - 5.5 yards per play allowed (gave up 19 pts in regulation)

vs Colts - 6.2 yards per play allowed (gave up 24 pts, bills led by 14 pts until late rally)

vs Ravens - 4.7 yards per play allowed (gave up 3 pts)

vs Chiefs - 7.4 yards per play allowed (gave up 38 pts, removed four KC kneel downs for -4 yards)

vs Patriots - 5 yards per play allowed (gave up 17 pts, including a garbage-time TD)

vs Chiefs - 7.6 yards per play allowed (gave up 36 pts in regulation)

vs Dolphins - 3.3 yards per play allowed (gave up 31 pts, but includes defensive score and two other scores via TO)

vs Bengals - 5.9 yards per play allowed (gave up 27 pts, removed two CIN kneel downs for -1 yards)

vs Steelers - 5.1 yards per play allowed (gave up 17 pts, including gift-wrapped score off blocked FG)

vs Chiefs - 8.5 yards per play allowed (gave up 27 pts, removed four KC kneel downs for -6 yards)

 

The common narrative here is that the Bills defense "comes up short in the playoffs." The truth is, against non Chiefs playoff opponents, the very strong Bills regular season defense has performed the exact same in the playoffs. Against non Chiefs teams (2019 thru 2023), Buffalo's defense gives up an average of 19.7 points and 5.1 yards per play in the playoffs. That's exactly on par with their regular season performance during the same years (2019 thru 2023), where they allowed 19.2 points and 5.14 yards per play. 

 

But against the Chiefs, the Bills come up short. In their 10 playoff games, their three worst games in yards per play have all come against the Chiefs. These aren't just bad performances, they are epic bad, and would rank among their very worst in a sample of 80+ regular season games in that time frame. 

 

Again:

 

vs non Chiefs: 5.1 yards per play, 19.7 points allowed

vs Chiefs: 7.8 yards per play, 33.6 points allowed

 

Do you see the difference?

 

The Bills don't have a playoff defense problem. They don't have a "paper tiger" defense problem.

 

They have a Patrick Mahomes problem. 

Edited February 17 by beebe

[Success]

2 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

Bills defense in playoff games, Josh Allen era: 

 

vs Texans - 5.5 yards per play allowed (gave up 19 pts in regulation)

vs Colts - 6.2 yards per play allowed (gave up 24 pts, bills led by 14 pts until late rally)

vs Ravens - 4.7 yards per play allowed (gave up 3 pts)

vs Chiefs - 7.4 yards per play allowed (gave up 38 pts, removed four KC kneel downs for -4 yards)

vs Patriots - 5 yards per play allowed (gave up 17 pts, including a garbage-time TD)

vs Chiefs - 7.6 yards per play allowed (gave up 36 pts in regulation)

vs Dolphins - 3.3 yards per play allowed (gave up 31 pts, but includes defensive score and two other scores via TO)

vs Bengals - 5.9 yards per play allowed (gave up 27 pts, removed two CIN kneel downs for -1 yards)

vs Steelers - 5.1 yards per play allowed (gave up 17 pts, including gift-wrapped score off blocked FG)

vs Chiefs - 8.5 yards per play allowed (gave up 27 pts, removed four KC kneel downs for -6 yards)

 

The common narrative here is that the Bills defense "comes up short in the playoffs." The truth is, against non Chiefs playoff opponents, the very strong Bills regular season defense has performed the exact same in the playoffs. Against non Chiefs teams (2019 thru 2023), Buffalo's defense gives up an average of 19.7 points and 5.1 yards per play in the playoffs. That's exactly on par with their regular season performance during the same years (2019 thru 2023), where they allowed 19.2 points and 5.14 yards per play. 

 

But against the Chiefs, the Bills come up short. In their 10 playoff games, their three worst games in yards per play have all come against the Chiefs. These aren't just bad performances, they are epic bad, and would rank among their very worst in a sample of 80+ regular season games in that time frame. 

 

The Bills don't have a playoff defense problem. They don't have a "paper tiger" defense problem.

 

They have a Patrick Mahomes problem. 

 

You took all the time to put this together - after implying that Allen's playoff victories weren't too impressive because he played against mainly back-up & mediocre QB's?

 

Your arguments are pretty inconsistent.  You're trying to support a narrative that isn't really supportable.

 

2 hours ago, beebe said:

 

Josh Allen is 5-5 career in the playoffs. He's beaten the likes of Skylar Thompson, Mason Rudolph, fossil Phillip Rivers, Mac Jones and playoff choker Lamar. 

 

 

Did you forget about this post before you posted your last post?

 

[beebe]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

You took all the time to put this together - after implying that Allen's playoff victories weren't too impressive because he played against mainly back-up & mediocre QB's?

 

Your arguments are pretty inconsistent.  You're trying to support a narrative that isn't really supportable.

 

 

Three of the Bills' five worst defensive outings in five years - regular season and postseason, a sample of 80 plus games - all have come against the same quarterback. Again, the Bills have a Patrick Mahomes problem. They have for the last six years. They likely will for the next six years. The sooner you come to terms with that, the happier you will be. 

[Success]

Just now, beebe said:

 

Three of the Bills' five worst defensive outings in five years - regular season and postseason, a sample of 80 plus games - all have come against the same quarterback. Again, the Bills have a Patrick Mahomes problem. They have for the last six years. They likely will for the next six years. The sooner you come to terms with that, the happier you will be. 

 

The D comes up short in the playoffs.  They've done well - as you pointed out - against bad QB's.

 

The Bills defense has a "good QB" problem. Mahomes is part of that. Maybe we can agree on that, but in general, you've spent a lot of time mythologizing a QB who is maybe a tick better than Allen.

 

[beebe]

Just now, Success said:

 

The D comes up short in the playoffs.  They've done well - as you pointed out - against bad QB's.

 

The Bills defense has a "good QB" problem. Mahomes is part of that. Maybe we can agree on that, but in general, you've spent a lot of time mythologizing a QB who is maybe a tick better than Allen.

 

 

We are where we are because you state Mahomes is a "tick" better when he's off to the single-best start to a career in NFL history, with an overloaded trophy case, and comparing him to a guy who hasn't had to cancel his early February Pebble Beach tee time since he's been in the league. I mean what are we doing here!

[Billl]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

You clearly don't know golf either

Brady is Tiger

 

Mahomes is Rahm

Allen is probably Rory or possibly Speith

 

Brady is Nicklaus.  Mahomes is Tiger.  Allen is Colin Montgomerie.

[Success]

3 minutes ago, beebe said:

 

We are where we are because you state Mahomes is a "tick" better when he's off to the single-best start to a career in NFL history, with an overloaded trophy case, and comparing him to a guy who hasn't had to cancel his early February Pebble Beach tee time since he's been in the league. I mean what are we doing here!

 

We've come full circle.  You're back to arguing that football is not a team game.

 

Which, as we all know, it is.