Success Posted February 19 Posted February 19 1 minute ago, SaulGoodman said: Playoff Chiefs, and Mahomes in particular, are a different animal than the regular season Chiefs. The Patriots were the same way. They'd have a mediocre regular season or stretches of bad play, and then flip the switch in the postseason and take another trophy. Mahomes is on a different level of focus when it gets real. I remember when the Alex Smith Chiefs blew out two really good Patriots teams in the regular season. Like, annihilated them. But guess who was hoisting the trophy in the end while the Chiefs were one and done? If a KC fan were to view the 13 seconds game as a product of poor defense, would you feel slighted? Doesn't seem like any of you will give credit to a team that's had one of the most successful stretches in NFL history, particularly offensively. And you could certainly make the case that defense was mostly responsible for that, as if you take away just the one instance of the DB falling down on 4th and forever, it's probably a comfortable win for KC. And what no one ever mentions is that KC's defense hasn't been stellar in the regular season OR playoffs until this year. 37 pts allowed in the loss to NE in '18. The next year they allowed an average of 25 ppg and 31 vs the Texans. Including a 24-0 hole early in the game. Gave up 31 vs Tampa in the SB. 36 to the Bills in 21. 27 to Cincy the next week. 35 vs Philly in the SB. Kind of laughed at the bolded. There are so many posts on this board that are borderline worshipful of KC. KC gets too much praise on here, imo. Even a KC-hater like me gives them credit for what they have accomplished, and praises Mahomes frequently. He's one of my favorite QB's to watch, though after his meltdown in the regular I lost some respect for him. And I'd reiterate: this actually is a BILLS board. There is an astounding amount of KC talk and praise just considering that alone. You want more? I wouldn't expect to go to a KC board & see overflowing praise for the Bills or Allen. In fact, after our exchange, I went over to the Planet just to see if it had changed, and saw many more posts calling Allen & the Bills chokers and saying they weren't a real threat in the AFC. 1 1 Quote
90sBills Posted February 19 Posted February 19 47 minutes ago, Success said: And it has been, as you said, particularly bad against the Chiefs. KC made the #1 defense in Superbowl 54 looked bad. They shredded to Eagles #1 defense in last year’s Superbowl. Then this Superbowl, with a lackluster offense, they again scored on one of the top defenses. I’m starting to think it really doesn’t matter how good a team’s defense is when they play Mahomes and the Chiefs in the playoffs. They’re going to score. So it’s up to the offense to out score them. Can’t rely on defensive stops. 1 1 Quote
Success Posted February 19 Posted February 19 1 minute ago, 90sBills said: KC made the #1 defense in Superbowl 54 looked bad. They shredded to Eagles #1 defense in last year’s Superbowl. Then this Superbowl, with a lackluster offense, they again scored on one of the top defenses. I’m starting to think it really doesn’t matter how good a team’s defense is when they play Mahomes and the Chiefs in the playoffs. They’re going to score. So it’s up to the offense to out score them. Can’t rely on defensive stops. Probably true. But we almost managed to do that. Our D didn't do as well against them as the Ravens, or Niners. Both teams got more stops than we did. We dominated TOP in our game w/ KC - all we needed was 1-2 more defensive stops. I mean, that drive they had coming out of the half was hot knife through butter. We didn't give them any resistance compared to other teams. Quote
90sBills Posted February 19 Posted February 19 1 minute ago, Success said: Probably true. But we almost managed to do that. Our D didn't do as well against them as the Ravens, or Niners. Both teams got more stops than we did. We dominated TOP in our game w/ KC - all we needed was 1-2 more defensive stops. I mean, that drive they had coming out of the half was hot knife through butter. We didn't give them any resistance compared to other teams. For sure. The TOP was huge. Playing keep away and methodically working down the field was brilliant. Hopefully Brady uses this strategy next year against them. A few plays going Bills way like you said and hopefully different outcome. 1 Quote
SaulGoodman Posted February 19 Posted February 19 41 minutes ago, Success said: Kind of laughed at the bolded. There are so many posts on this board that are borderline worshipful of KC. KC gets too much praise on here, imo. Even a KC-hater like me gives them credit for what they have accomplished, and praises Mahomes frequently. He's one of my favorite QB's to watch, though after his meltdown in the regular I lost some respect for him. And I'd reiterate: this actually is a BILLS board. There is an astounding amount of KC talk and praise just considering that alone. You want more? I wouldn't expect to go to a KC board & see overflowing praise for the Bills or Allen. In fact, after our exchange, I went over to the Planet just to see if it had changed, and saw many more posts calling Allen & the Bills chokers and saying they weren't a real threat in the AFC. Yeah, there's definitely a contingent here who give KC plenty of credit. I was referring to the other side. I don't consider it praise to just give a little credit to the opponent. I think the Chiefs' defense was terrible in the 13 seconds game, but I can acknowledge that Allen and the Bills had quite a bit to do with it. Same with the 35 allowed to the Eagles last year, etc. Quote
Success Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: Yeah, there's definitely a contingent here who give KC plenty of credit. I was referring to the other side. I don't consider it praise to just give a little credit to the opponent. I think the Chiefs' defense was terrible in the 13 seconds game, but I can acknowledge that Allen and the Bills had quite a bit to do with it. Same with the 35 allowed to the Eagles last year, etc. It's not what I look for going to opposing teams' boards. I don't expect it at all, and rarely see it. I don't really get it. KC won the Super Bowl a week ago. That ain't enough? I've been genuinely surprised by the posts from KC fans here over the past week. Enjoy the win. Fans here are still grappling w/ playoff frustration and an underachieving team that so far has squandered some good years of Allen's prime. Maybe the days right after another KC SB win aren't going to be the best to find hype for your team or even proper "credit." Quote
NewEra Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: Playoff Chiefs, and Mahomes in particular, are a different animal than the regular season Chiefs. The Patriots were the same way. They'd have a mediocre regular season or stretches of bad play, and then flip the switch in the postseason and take another trophy. Mahomes is on a different level of focus when it gets real. I remember when the Alex Smith Chiefs blew out two really good Patriots teams in the regular season. Like, annihilated them. But guess who was hoisting the trophy in the end while the Chiefs were one and done? If a KC fan were to view the 13 seconds game as a product of poor defense, would you feel slighted? Doesn't seem like any of you will give credit to a team that's had one of the most successful stretches in NFL history, particularly offensively. And you could certainly make the case that defense was mostly responsible for that, as if you take away just the one instance of the DB falling down on 4th and forever, it's probably a comfortable win for KC. And what no one ever mentions is that KC's defense hasn't been stellar in the regular season OR playoffs until this year. 37 pts allowed in the loss to NE in '18. The next year they allowed an average of 25 ppg and 31 vs the Texans. Including a 24-0 hole early in the game. Gave up 31 vs Tampa in the SB. 36 to the Bills in 21. 27 to Cincy the next week. 35 vs Philly in the SB. 24 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: Yeah, there's definitely a contingent here who give KC plenty of credit. I was referring to the other side. I don't consider it praise to just give a little credit to the opponent. I think the Chiefs' defense was terrible in the 13 seconds game, but I can acknowledge that Allen and the Bills had quite a bit to do with it. Same with the 35 allowed to the Eagles last year, etc. No, you’re just an extremely sensitive and over dramatic KC fan that reeks of insecurity. Removing you from ignore for a moment didn’t disappoint. “it doesn’t seem like any of you” doesn’t = “refer to the other side”. No you were not. You were all emotional and typing while seeing red. ✌️ again 1 Quote
st pete gogolak Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: Playoff Chiefs, and Mahomes in particular, are a different animal than the regular season Chiefs. The Patriots were the same way. They'd have a mediocre regular season or stretches of bad play, and then flip the switch in the postseason and take another trophy. Mahomes is on a different level of focus when it gets real. I remember when the Alex Smith Chiefs blew out two really good Patriots teams in the regular season. Like, annihilated them. But guess who was hoisting the trophy in the end while the Chiefs were one and done? If a KC fan were to view the 13 seconds game as a product of poor defense, would you feel slighted? Doesn't seem like any of you will give credit to a team that's had one of the most successful stretches in NFL history, particularly offensively. And you could certainly make the case that defense was mostly responsible for that, as if you take away just the one instance of the DB falling down on 4th and forever, it's probably a comfortable win for KC. And what no one ever mentions is that KC's defense hasn't been stellar in the regular season OR playoffs until this year. 37 pts allowed in the loss to NE in '18. The next year they allowed an average of 25 ppg and 31 vs the Texans. Including a 24-0 hole early in the game. Gave up 31 vs Tampa in the SB. 36 to the Bills in 21. 27 to Cincy the next week. 35 vs Philly in the SB. Now you’re just making stuff up. New England played mediocre during the regular season and “turning it up” post season? Pal, you came to the wrong forum to peddle that. We watched twenty years of NE pound, not only us, but the whole AFC East during the regular season. Pounded pretty much everyone in the league during the regular season. Maybe they had an off game against KC once but they absolutely did not coast during the regular season. I figured someone would make the pitch that Mahomes “turned it up a notch” in the playoffs. Like game against Ravens (17 points) or regulation against the 49ers (one TD in regulation on a short field)? Look, Mahomes is great. Certainly one of the all time greats. No one is disputing that. The point I’m trying to make is that the Bills defense in the playoffs against KC and the Bengals has been very, very bad. Mahomes and Burrow didn’t have to play Superman in any of those games to come out winners. Proof? Look no further than 13 seconds. Possibly the worst coaching job in the history of the NFL (not exaggerating). First play was a dump off to Hill that literally every QB in the league would have completed. Next play was a seam pass to a wide open Kelce. Nothing extraordinary. Contrast that with Bengals second half D in AFC title game that they won. Brilliant strategy brilliantly executed. Not sure why any of this is up for argument. 2 Quote
beebe Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Success said: Probably true. But we almost managed to do that. Our D didn't do as well against them as the Ravens, or Niners. Both teams got more stops than we did. We dominated TOP in our game w/ KC - all we needed was 1-2 more defensive stops. I mean, that drive they had coming out of the half was hot knife through butter. We didn't give them any resistance compared to other teams. The Chiefs have scored 31+ points in 9 of their 18 playoff games with Mahomes. They average 29.2 points per game and 6.3 yards per play. Only the Bucs and Ravens kept them to less than 20 points—and if we're being honest, the Chiefs could have had more vs Baltimore if it was absolutely necessary. These stats are despite KC playing five games in freezing temps, five with a compromised Mahomes (left early with foot injury vs Browns '20 and didn't return, played hurt vs Bills in '20 AFC title game; left early with high ankle vs Jags '22 Divisional but came back, played hurt vs Cincy '22 AFC title, reinjured ankle vs Philly Super Bowl) and despite them blowing out six opponents where they lost incentive to keep scoring. To be clear, the Bills defense has definitely come up short vs KC in the playoffs. There's no doubt about that. But they're hardly alone. Quote
Success Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 minutes ago, beebe said: The Chiefs have scored 31+ points in 9 of their 18 playoff games with Mahomes. They average 29.2 points per game and 6.3 yards per play. Only the Bucs and Ravens kept them to less than 20 points—and if we're being honest, the Chiefs could have had more vs Baltimore if it was absolutely necessary. These stats are despite KC playing five games in freezing temps, five with a compromised Mahomes (left early with foot injury vs Browns '20 and didn't return, played hurt vs Bills in '20 AFC title game; left early with high ankle vs Jags '22 Divisional but came back, played hurt vs Cincy '22 AFC title, reinjured ankle vs Philly Super Bowl) and despite them blowing out six opponents where they lost incentive to keep scoring. To be clear, the Bills defense has definitely come up short vs KC in the playoffs. There's no doubt about that. But they're hardly alone. I get the point you're trying to make. But it's very noticeable how many excuses you make for Mahomes & the Chiefs, while largely dismissing disadvantages the Bills have had to deal with. I mean, "freezing temps"? Quote
beebe Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) It hadn't really occurred to me - and it gets lost with the greatness of the finish - but if the Bills didn't convert the 4th-and-13 with 1:54 left in the '21 divisional game, what became the best playoff game in NFL history would have likely finished: Chiefs 26, Bills 21 KC: 359 yards on 6.2 ypp BUF: 347 yards on 6 ypp Mahomes would have finished 23-for-31 for 188 yards and one TD. Instead, he finished 33-of-44 for 378 yards and 3 TDs entirely inside the 2 min warning and OT. Edited February 19 by beebe Quote
SaulGoodman Posted February 20 Posted February 20 (edited) 6 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Now you’re just making stuff up. New England played mediocre during the regular season and “turning it up” post season? Pal, you came to the wrong forum to peddle that. We watched twenty years of NE pound, not only us, but the whole AFC East during the regular season. Pounded pretty much everyone in the league during the regular season. Maybe they had an off game against KC once but they absolutely did not coast during the regular season. I figured someone would make the pitch that Mahomes “turned it up a notch” in the playoffs. Like game against Ravens (17 points) or regulation against the 49ers (one TD in regulation on a short field)? First of all, mediocre is relative. And I added "stretches"...not necessarily entire seasons of mediocre play. Sometimes they would stumble out of the gate for a month or so. In 2014, NE started 2-2 with two double digit losses, including a 41-14 loss in Arrowhead in which Alex Smith's Chiefs made them look like the worst team in the league. They went on to win the SB. In 2018, they lost to several mediocre teams, including three blowouts. Went on to win the SB. 6 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: Look, Mahomes is great. Certainly one of the all time greats. No one is disputing that. The point I’m trying to make is that the Bills defense in the playoffs against KC and the Bengals has been very, very bad. Mahomes and Burrow didn’t have to play Superman in any of those games to come out winners. Proof? Look no further than 13 seconds. Possibly the worst coaching job in the history of the NFL (not exaggerating). First play was a dump off to Hill that literally every QB in the league would have completed. Next play was a seam pass to a wide open Kelce. Nothing extraordinary. Contrast that with Bengals second half D in AFC title game that they won. Brilliant strategy brilliantly executed. Not sure why any of this is up for argument. What? Mahomes' defense allowed 36 points in that game. I'll agree that there was nothing special about the throws at the end of regulation, except for the fact that there was a hell of a lot of pressure not to screw up with 13 seconds left in your season. And the fact that Mahomes is a perfect 7 of 7 in those situations in the playoffs. I'd say that's kinda special. Let's talk about some of Allen's throws. Was there anything special about throwing to a WIDE open Gabe Davis multiple times as DBs were falling down or blowing coverages? There's a pretty blatant double standard here. When Allen throws to a guy with no DB within a mile, he's Superman. When Mahomes does it, it's nothing. Mahomes had to be almost perfect in that game to get the win. Completed 75% of his passes, 447 total yds, 4 TDs, averaged 10 yards per run, punted once against the #1 rated defense. The Bills punted 4 times vs a mediocre defense, and people act like Allen had to be perfect while Mahomes had a huge margin for error. You guys say that Mahomes' defense always steps up in the playoffs while Allen's does the opposite, and yet....36 points to the Bills, 35 points to the Eagles, 37 to NE, 31 to Tampa, 31 to Houston, 27 to Cincy, and others in the mid 20s. If Mahomes' defense actually did consistently step up in the postseason, he may have never lost a postseason game. And imagine KC's regular season records if the defenses didn't stink it up so often throughout the year. Edited February 20 by SaulGoodman Quote
Jim Posted February 20 Posted February 20 33 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said: First of all, mediocre is relative. And I added "stretches"...not necessarily entire seasons of mediocre play. Sometimes they would stumble out of the gate for a month or so. In 2014, NE started 2-2 with two double digit losses, including a 41-14 loss in Arrowhead in which Alex Smith's Chiefs made them look like the worst team in the league. They went on to win the SB. In 2018, they lost to several mediocre teams, including three blowouts. Went on to win the SB. What? Mahomes' defense allowed 36 points in that game. I'll agree that there was nothing special about the throws at the end of regulation, except for the fact that there was a hell of a lot of pressure not to screw up with 13 seconds left in your season. And the fact that Mahomes is a perfect 7 of 7 in those situations in the playoffs. I'd say that's kinda special. Let's talk about some of Allen's throws. Was there anything special about throwing to a WIDE open Gabe Davis multiple times as DBs were falling down or blowing coverages? There's a pretty blatant double standard here. When Allen throws to a guy with no DB within a mile, he's Superman. When Mahomes does it, it's nothing. Mahomes had to be almost perfect in that game to get the win. Completed 75% of his passes, 447 total yds, 4 TDs, averaged 10 yards per run, punted once against the #1 rated defense. The Bills punted 4 times vs a mediocre defense, and people act like Allen was perfect while Mahomes had a huge margin for error. You guys say that Mahomes' defense always steps up in the playoffs while Allen's does the opposite, and yet....36 points to the Bills, 35 points to the Eagles, 37 to NE, 31 to Tampa, 31 to Houston, 27 to Cincy, and others in the mid 20s. If Mahomes' defense actually did consistently step up in the postseason, he may have never lost a postseason game. And imagine KC's regular season records if the defenses didn't stink it up so often throughout the year. Oh shut the f uck up. Your team just won the Super Bowl and every in the media licks Mahomes nuts. Lay off with the whole "nobody respect my team" thing. Quote
SaulGoodman Posted February 20 Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, Jim said: Oh shut the f uck up. Your team just won the Super Bowl and every in the media licks Mahomes nuts. Lay off with the whole "nobody respect my team" thing. Where did I say anything about the media? But while we're on the subject, virtually everyone in the media licks Allen's balls, and some claim he's the better QB, despite not having near the accomplishments. Yet many of you pull the disrespect card constantly. 1 Quote
Success Posted February 20 Posted February 20 1 minute ago, SaulGoodman said: Where did I say anything about the media? But while we're on the subject, virtually everyone in the media licks Allen's balls, and some claim he's the better QB, despite not having near the accomplishments. Yet many of you pull the disrespect card constantly. I would love to see a quote from ANYONE in the media claiming he's better right now. I haven't heard that in well over a year. Quote
SaulGoodman Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Just now, Success said: I would love to see a quote from ANYONE in the media claiming he's better right now. I haven't heard that in well over a year. I mean, it probably hasn't been said much since the SB, but there were definitely some saying it before the game in Buffalo. And I remember seeing an ESPN graphic that gave Buffalo the edge at QB. Quote
Success Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Just now, SaulGoodman said: I mean, it probably hasn't been said much since the SB, but there were definitely some saying it before the game in Buffalo. And I remember seeing an ESPN graphic that gave Buffalo the edge at QB. You sure about that? I haven't seen anyone say that since at least prior to last year's SB. I truly doubt that anyone in the national media was talking that way at any point this past season. I still can't figure out the deal here. Do you really think Mahomes is disrespected in some way? Is that your primary focus one week after winning a 2nd SB, when Mahomes is in every other commercial we see on TV, and many are mentioning "GOAT" when talking about him? Not enough? You need consensus on a Buffalo Bills board that he's unbeatable and super amazing, and wow, do we wish we had that guy? Quote
SaulGoodman Posted February 20 Posted February 20 26 minutes ago, Success said: You sure about that? I haven't seen anyone say that since at least prior to last year's SB. I truly doubt that anyone in the national media was talking that way at any point this past season. Yes, I'm sure. And why would that be so surprising? Don't you guys all think that Allen had a much better season? 26 minutes ago, Success said: I still can't figure out the deal here. Do you really think Mahomes is disrespected in some way? Is that your primary focus one week after winning a 2nd SB, when Mahomes is in every other commercial we see on TV, and many are mentioning "GOAT" when talking about him? No, I think Mahomes gets a ton of respect from the media. Not so much here, but I get it. 26 minutes ago, Success said: Not enough? You need consensus on a Buffalo Bills board that he's unbeatable and super amazing, and wow, do we wish we had that guy? I think Bills fans should be plenty content with Allen. Content enough to acknowledge that he isn't disrespected by, frankly, anyone but Nick Wright...who only does it to troll you guys (and very successfully I might add). Quote
SaulGoodman Posted February 20 Posted February 20 5 hours ago, NewEra said: No, you’re just an extremely sensitive and over dramatic KC fan that reeks of insecurity. Removing you from ignore for a moment didn’t disappoint. “it doesn’t seem like any of you” doesn’t = “refer to the other side”. No you were not. You were all emotional and typing while seeing red. ✌️ again LOL. I'm well aware that there are some Bills fans here that give credit to KC, but whatever you say. The "insecure" comment is funny. Every other thread on here is downplaying the Chiefs' success to prop up your team, whining about alleged media opinions of Allen and the Bills, convincing yourselves that KC only beats the Bills due to luck and/or injuries, freaking out over Nick Wright's latest comment, etc. Quote
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