Chiefs are just better than the Bills

[CoudyBills]

Huh, never thought about it like that🤦

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:22 AM, beebe said:

 

On what planet isn't it comparable? The Bills had almost every single player on offense available. All five starting offensive linemen, all their running backs, Josh Allen, all their tight ends, and every receiver except for Gabe Davis—and most of us think the offense has run better with Davis off the field. In fact, his absence helped Shakir get more snaps, and Shakir finished with a team-best 7 catches. So the Bills were down Davis on offense, while the Chiefs were down Toney (sucks), Moore (decent but mostly sucks), McKinnon (great weapon for KC) and lost Thuney (All Pro) in the third quarter. Nothing to really write home about for either team on offense. 

 

Defensively, after the first series, the Chiefs were without starting safety Mike Edwards and starting linebacker Willie Gay. They began the game without starting DT Derrick Nnadi. Their original starting safety Bryan Cook (Edwards is a backup) was injured a month earlier. 

 

Buffalo had its entire defensive line available to play. They had their two starting safeties Hyde and Poyer who played every snap. Taron Johnson, Rasul Douglas and Dane Jackson all played 100% of the snaps. Yes, the Bills lost Tre White early season—but his loss necessitated the trade for Douglas who gave them better play than White was giving them. So 9 to 10 of the Bills' defensive regulars on defense played to capacity, and 10 (arguably 11) of their best offensive players played. Buffalo had access to 19 or 20 of their 22 best players overall. If you read this forum, you'd think they played with about six healthy players.

 

The biggest loss was obviously Bernard, which led to Klein being on the field, who the Chiefs targeted repeatedly. But again, the collective absences - clustered as they were - weren't what many here make them out to be. The Bills began the week as 2.5 point favorites and finished the week as 2.5 point favorites. There is such a thing as building roster depth and developing young players who can perform when needed. 

 

If being without Terrel Bernard and a couple replacement level defensive backups is enough to tank your season, then you weren't very good to begin with. 

 

The Chiefs replaced DT Nnadi with a heavier dose of journeyman Mike Pennel (signed off the street midseason) and Matt Dickerson (undrafted, journeyman, practice squad regular); they gave Willie Gay's snaps to offseason signing Dru Tranquill (most snaps he had since Week 12) and LB Leo Chenal (3rd round pick in his second year.) They gave safety Edwards' snaps to fourth-round rookie Chamarri Conner, who played 99% of snaps and actually performed great. Thuney was replaced by Nick Allegretti, the try-hard backup who was a former 7th-round pick. Outside of Kelce and Rice, Mahomes was throwing balls to MVS, Noah Gray, Mecole Hardman, Justin Watson and Clyde Edwards. The degree of difficulty wasn't exactly high! It is without question the worst collection of offensive talent the Bills will face in the next several years when going against the Chiefs. And yet, the Chiefs offense did what the Chiefs offense did in prior playoff meetings vs the Bills — even when the Bills were fully healthy, even when the Bills had top-5 level defenses — they ran circles around them. 

Stop feeding the KC strays....

[Bill from NYC]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:47 AM, Buffalo03 said:

Not beating them in the playoffs doesn't mean we're not better. I would argue we were better team in 2021 in 13 seconds and I would also argue we were the better team this year. We should have won both games against them. Shooting yourselves in the foot doesn't mean they're better 

Point taken but McDermott is not on the same planet with Reid, and never will be.

 

Many argue with me which is great, but my contention is that McDermott is a so-so coach and has far too much power wrt the draft and free agency. 

Edited February 21 by Bill from NYC

[billsfan89]

The Chiefs have been a combination of luckier and at times better. 

 

2020- The Chiefs were just better, they were more battle-tested in the playoffs and a tougher team. 

2021- The Chiefs were luckier got the coin flip. 

2022- KC was better the Bills offensive line was just flawed among other issues. KC had the better team even if the Bengals were the team that knocked Buffalo out.  

2023- KC was luckier by a large margin. KC got extremely lucky their division ***** the bed and they got to take week 18 off which got them a lot healthier for the playoffs. KC also got extremely lucky that Buffalo suffered a massive snow storm that gave them a 2 day rest advantage along with the Bills defense getting injured a lot in the playoffs. 

 

The Bills time will come they just need to keep building the team well and have it all come together. Tim Duncan said it best it takes a lot of luck to win a championship. 

[Success]

33 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Stop feeding the KC strays....

 

And those guys STILL complain that they're not getting enough praise on this board, literally a week after winning a 2nd consecutive SB.

 

It's a very tough crowd to please.

 

[Buffalo03]

30 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Point taken but MvcDermott is not on the same planet with Reid, and never will be.

 

Many argue with me which is great, but my contention is that McDermott is a so-so coach and has far too much power wrt the draft and free agency. 

Reid is definitely the better coach. I agree there

[mjt328]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:22 AM, beebe said:

On what planet isn't it comparable? The Bills had almost every single player on offense available. All five starting offensive linemen, all their running backs, Josh Allen, all their tight ends, and every receiver except for Gabe Davis—and most of us think the offense has run better with Davis off the field. In fact, his absence helped Shakir get more snaps, and Shakir finished with a team-best 7 catches. So the Bills were down Davis on offense, while the Chiefs were down Toney (sucks), Moore (decent but mostly sucks), McKinnon (great weapon for KC) and lost Thuney (All Pro) in the third quarter. Nothing to really write home about for either team on offense. 

 

Defensively, after the first series, the Chiefs were without starting safety Mike Edwards and starting linebacker Willie Gay. They began the game without starting DT Derrick Nnadi. Their original starting safety Bryan Cook (Edwards is a backup) was injured a month earlier. 

 

Buffalo had its entire defensive line available to play. They had their two starting safeties Hyde and Poyer who played every snap. Taron Johnson, Rasul Douglas and Dane Jackson all played 100% of the snaps. Yes, the Bills lost Tre White early season—but his loss necessitated the trade for Douglas who gave them better play than White was giving them. So 9 to 10 of the Bills' defensive regulars on defense played to capacity, and 10 (arguably 11) of their best offensive players played. Buffalo had access to 19 or 20 of their 22 best players overall. If you read this forum, you'd think they played with about six healthy players.

 

The biggest loss was obviously Bernard, which led to Klein being on the field, who the Chiefs targeted repeatedly. But again, the collective absences - clustered as they were - weren't what many here make them out to be. The Bills began the week as 2.5 point favorites and finished the week as 2.5 point favorites. There is such a thing as building roster depth and developing young players who can perform when needed. 

 

If being without Terrel Bernard and a couple replacement level defensive backups is enough to tank your season, then you weren't very good to begin with. 

 

The Chiefs replaced DT Nnadi with a heavier dose of journeyman Mike Pennel (signed off the street midseason) and Matt Dickerson (undrafted, journeyman, practice squad regular); they gave Willie Gay's snaps to offseason signing Dru Tranquill (most snaps he had since Week 12) and LB Leo Chenal (3rd round pick in his second year.) They gave safety Edwards' snaps to fourth-round rookie Chamarri Conner, who played 99% of snaps and actually performed great. Thuney was replaced by Nick Allegretti, the try-hard backup who was a former 7th-round pick. Outside of Kelce and Rice, Mahomes was throwing balls to MVS, Noah Gray, Mecole Hardman, Justin Watson and Clyde Edwards. The degree of difficulty wasn't exactly high! It is without question the worst collection of offensive talent the Bills will face in the next several years when going against the Chiefs. And yet, the Chiefs offense did what the Chiefs offense did in prior playoff meetings vs the Bills — even when the Bills were fully healthy, even when the Bills had top-5 level defenses — they ran circles around them. 

 

It wasn't so much about the sheer number of players the Bills were missing across the lineup.

It was the number of players they were missing at one position, and how that matched up against Kansas City.

 

Everyone knows the Chiefs offense runs primarily through Travis Kelce.  In our Defensive system, the Tight Ends are usually covered by Linebackers.

 

The Bills were down both of their starting LBs in Matt Milano and Terrell Bernard.  Their top backup Tyrell Dodson was gutting it through a shoulder injury, and then hurt his ankle during the game.  They were also down their #5 backer in Baylon Spector.  This left rookie Dorian Williams and AJ Klein (who was signed off the street two weeks earlier, and also got injured during the game) to handle probably the best TE in football.

 

[beebe]

12 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

It wasn't so much about the sheer number of players the Bills were missing across the lineup.

It was the number of players they were missing at one position, and how that matched up against Kansas City.

 

Everyone knows the Chiefs offense runs primarily through Travis Kelce.  In our Defensive system, the Tight Ends are usually covered by Linebackers.

 

The Bills were down both of their starting LBs in Matt Milano and Terrell Bernard.  Their top backup Tyrell Dodson was gutting it through a shoulder injury, and then hurt his ankle during the game.  They were also down their #5 backer in Baylon Spector.  This left rookie Dorian Williams and AJ Klein (who was signed off the street two weeks earlier, and also got injured during the game) to handle probably the best TE in football.

 

 

And yet despite this, the Bills closed as 2.5-point favorites and the over/under for the game was bet lower, closing at 45.5 and 46 everywhere. If losing a LB and a replacement level backup was significant and meant as much as people here suggest, we would have seen money come in on the Chiefs or we would have seen money come in on the over or we would have seen Travis Kelce over catches/yards get bet way over. We didn't see any of these things. The global betting market, which accommodates enormous six-figure limits at most sportsbooks, kept the Bills as 2.5-point favorites; and the prop market, which is lower limits but still very sharp overall, barely budged on Kelce's game projections. 

 

The Bills defense, who had as many regulars missing as the Chiefs did (KC entered without starting safety Cook and starting DT Nnadi, then lost safety Edwards and LB Gay early) were tasked with stopping a Chiefs offense that consisted of:

• Patrick Mahomes
• Travis Kelce
• Isaiah Pacheco
• Two HORRIBLY graded tackles (Smith, Taylor)
• A very strong interior OL (All-Pro LG Thuney exited 3rd quarter with injury) 
• WR's consisting of: Rashee Rice, Justin Watson (0 catches), MVS (2 catches), Hardman (1 catch, 1 backbreaking fumble), Richie James (0 catches). Three of KC's receivers from this horrid group missed with injury (Skyy Moore, Justyn Ross, Kadarius Toney) as did their best pass-catching back (Jerick McKinnon.) 

Again, if you can't stop this offense, not sure what to say.

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

The Chiefs have been a combination of luckier and at times better. 

 

2020- The Chiefs were just better, they were more battle-tested in the playoffs and a tougher team. 

2021- The Chiefs were luckier got the coin flip. 

2022- KC was better the Bills offensive line was just flawed among other issues. KC had the better team even if the Bengals were the team that knocked Buffalo out.  

2023- KC was luckier by a large margin. KC got extremely lucky their division ***** the bed and they got to take week 18 off which got them a lot healthier for the playoffs. KC also got extremely lucky that Buffalo suffered a massive snow storm that gave them a 2 day rest advantage along with the Bills defense getting injured a lot in the playoffs. 

 

The Bills time will come they just need to keep building the team well and have it all come together. Tim Duncan said it best it takes a lot of luck to win a championship. 

 

Speaking of luck, do the Bills even make the playoffs if Toney isn't called for offensive offside?

 

 

[Success]

Just now, SaulGoodman said:

 

Speaking of luck, do the Bills even make the playoffs if Toney isn't called for offensive offside?

 

 

 

Does KC have 2 SB's in a row w/out egregiously bad calls against BOTH Cincy & Philly, in the AFCCG and SB last year, respectively?

 

It's a curious thing to consider.

 

[SaulGoodman]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Does KC have 2 SB's in a row w/out egregiously bad calls against BOTH Cincy & Philly, in the AFCCG and SB last year, respectively?

 

It's a curious thing to consider.

 

Which calls were egregiously bad?

[Success]

4 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Which calls were egregiously bad?

 

Really?

 

[beebe]

Kelce's career games vs Bills:

 

13 catches, 118 yards, two TDs ('20 afc championship)

5 catches, 65 yards, two TDs

8 catches, 96 yards, one TD

6 catches, 57 yards, one TD

8 catches, 108 yards, zero TDs

6 catches, 83 yards, zero TDs

5 catches, 75 yards, two TDs ('23 divisional round) 

 

Kelce's best-ever game vs the Bills in the 2020 AFC championship game came against a fully-healthy Bills roster with in-their-prime Poyer, Hyde, White, Johnson, Milano, Edmunds all on the field.

 

Arguably his second-best game vs the Bills—easily his most memorable given the game-winning catch in OT—came against another completely healthy Bills defense.

 

Kelce has cooked basically every defense he's ever played in the playoffs. We've seen Kelce run circles around Milano in two prior playoff games and caught the game-winner over him in the divisional game. In fact, Milano has gotten crucified in the past for getting beat in playoff games, and how many times have we read here, "Why is Kelce always open!"

 

Mahomes targeted Kelce on 39.5% of his pass attempts in the 2020 game. 

 

He targeted Kelce on 26% of his pass attempts in this year's game. 

 

The Bills haven't had an answer for Kelce for four years now.

[Success]

2 minutes ago, beebe said:

Kelce's career games vs Bills:

 

13 catches, 118 yards, two TDs ('20 afc championship)

5 catches, 65 yards, two TDs

8 catches, 96 yards, one TD

6 catches, 57 yards, one TD

8 catches, 108 yards, zero TDs

6 catches, 83 yards, zero TDs

5 catches, 75 yards, two TDs ('23 divisional round) 

 

Kelce's best-ever game vs the Bills in the 2020 AFC championship game came against a fully-healthy Bills roster with in-their-prime Poyer, Hyde, White, Johnson, Milano, Edmunds all on the field.

 

Arguably his second-best game vs the Bills—easily his most memorable given the game-winning catch in OT—came against another completely healthy Bills defense.

 

Kelce has cooked basically every defense he's ever played in the playoffs. We've seen Kelce run circles around Milano in two prior playoff games and caught the game-winner over him in the divisional game. In fact, Milano has gotten crucified in the past for getting beat in playoff games, and how many times have we read here, "Why is Kelce always open!"

 

Mahomes targeted Kelce on 39.5% of his pass attempts in the 2020 game. 

 

He targeted Kelce on 26% of his pass attempts in this year's game. 

 

The Bills haven't had an answer for Kelce for four years now.

 

This past game, that really shocked me w/ Bernard, Milano & Spector out, and our secondary missing Benford, White & featuring a much-less-than 100% Douglas.

 

Who knew that Klein - who I think I heard was heading to FL a week before the game? - couldn't keep up w/ Kelce?

 

[beebe]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

 

This past game, that really shocked me w/ Bernard, Milano & Spector out, and our secondary missing Benford, White & featuring a much-less-than 100% Douglas.

 

Who knew that Klein - who I think I heard was heading to FL a week before the game? - couldn't keep up w/ Kelce?

 

 

The point is, his outing this game isn't all that different than his outings vs the "fully loaded" Bills defenses. What from the past convinces you he wouldn't torch whoever the Bills put on the field? Kelce has posted numbers basically every playoff game of his entire career, including the past two years while surrounded by nobodies at wide receiver. 

 

(By the way, after his TD early in the third quarter, Kelce caught one pass for six yards the final 26:48 of the game.) 

Edited February 21 by beebe

[SaulGoodman]

5 hours ago, Success said:

 

Really?

 

You aren’t seriously under the impression that everyone agrees with you that this was an egregiously bad call, right? Dude was a at least two yards out of bounds. 🤣
 

 

 

Edited February 21 by SaulGoodman

[Success]

14 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Uh….yeah. You aren’t seriously under the impression that everyone agrees with you that this was an egregiously bad call, right? Dude was a at least two yards out of bounds. 🤣
 

 

 

 

Did you miss the rest of the 4th quarter?  

 

An entire series of missed calls (block in the back, holding), clock "problems", and a basically phantom grounding penalty - all going the Chiefs way.

 

I was extremely glad that one wasn't the Bills.  Gotta think that Bengals fans are still replaying some of those.

 

[damj]

 

GAHHHH! 

 

YOU'RE RIGHT

On 2/12/2024 at 9:53 AM, Buffalo03 said:

13 seconds we shouldn't have lost. We were the better team that lost on a coaching blunder. This year, for the 3rd year in a row, we went into their house and beat them. If a couple plays go differently in the playoff game, we win. Plain and simple

When the game is on the line, the Chiefs make the plays to win and we don't. 

 

They're better than us. 

 

Either we find a way to get past them, or we try and win it all in a year they are down. 

[SaulGoodman]

50 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Did you miss the rest of the 4th quarter?  

 

An entire series of missed calls (block in the back, holding), clock "problems", and a basically phantom grounding penalty - all going the Chiefs way.

 

I was extremely glad that one wasn't the Bills.  Gotta think that Bengals fans are still replaying some of those.

 

I couldn’t care less what Bengals fans are doing. 
 

Is your take that KC is the only team to benefit from the occasional questionable call? In both games you mentioned, the most impactful calls went against the Chiefs (TD wiped off the board and an INT negated vs Cincy, plus a very iffy call that wiped out a defensive score vs the Eagles). The Chiefs were also the only team to have a TD erased by penalty in this year’s postseason and it happened twice. 
 

KC’s been one of the most penalized teams in the league and their opponents are rarely penalized. Yet people think it’s the opposite due to a couple calls in last year’s playoffs. Conveniently ignoring the massive calls that go against them. 
 

Which call was egregiously bad in the SB by the way? Rules experts said the holding call was correct and there are pics of Bradberry grabbing Smith-Schuster’s jersey. I don’t think it was a blatant foul but it was a foul by the rules. 
 

[Billsatlastin2018]

7 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Not beating them in the playoffs doesn't mean we're not better

FFS…

I call my #1 witness, Your Honor!