Chiefs are just better than the Bills

[zow2]

1 minute ago, beebe said:

They won a Super Bowl with a receiving corps of Rice, MVS, Watson, Hardman and Richie James, two god-awful tackles and a backup LG filling in for an All-Pro on offense. They can play another decade and not have a worse offense than they had this year.

 

While your point is taken, don't leave Kelce out of the receivers mix.  He had a great playoffs.  The All world Coach, QB and TE has been critical to dynasties.

 

Belichek-Brady-Gronk

Reid- Mahomes-Kelce

 

McDermott-Allen-Kincaid/Knox?  where's our dynasty

[beebe]

Now that Mahomes has three Super Bowls in his pocket, a guy who was already motivated by legacy is now going to be consumed by it. When the Chiefs began their mini rebuild, 2022 and 2023 were supposed to be the lean years. Instead they won two Super Bowls. They always expected 2024-2026 to be the years where they'd take off. Now they're in very healthy shape cap wise. They should be able to retain most of their key parts. Bryan Cook and Charles Omenihu will return from injury to add to a defense that might only lose Willie Gay and a couple of reserves. The Chiefs' 1st round pick in 2023, DE Felix Anudike-Uzomah, will get a ton of snaps after getting largely a developmental year as a rookie. Mahomes will restructure and save them a boat-load in the short-term. Pending UFA's are likely to choose the Chiefs over slightly better offers in hopes of chasing the threepeat (including Chris Jones, who publicly said he's coming back.) The Chiefs will have the money to pursue a top-tier WR and are likely to draft a receiver in the first round. Every assistant coach, including Spags, is coming back. They might be able to lure Bieniemy back in some sort of offensive assistant role. The 2024 Chiefs might be the best version of the Chiefs we've ever seen if they stay healthy. 

[SaulGoodman]

13 minutes ago, beebe said:

Now that Mahomes has three Super Bowls in his pocket, a guy who was already motivated by legacy is now going to be consumed by it. When the Chiefs began their mini rebuild, 2022 and 2023 were supposed to be the lean years. Instead they won two Super Bowls. They always expected 2024-2026 to be the years where they'd take off. Now they're in very healthy shape cap wise. They should be able to retain most of their key parts. Bryan Cook and Charles Omenihu will return from injury to add to a defense that might only lose Willie Gay and a couple of reserves. The Chiefs' 1st round pick in 2023, DE Felix Anudike-Uzomah, will get a ton of snaps after getting largely a developmental year as a rookie. Mahomes will restructure and save them a boat-load in the short-term. Pending UFA's are likely to choose the Chiefs over slightly better offers in hopes of chasing the threepeat (including Chris Jones, who publicly said he's coming back.) The Chiefs will have the money to pursue a top-tier WR and are likely to draft a receiver in the first round. Every assistant coach, including Spags, is coming back. They might be able to lure Bieniemy back in some sort of offensive assistant role. The 2024 Chiefs might be the best version of the Chiefs we've ever seen if they stay healthy. 

As a KC fan, I have to say you know your stuff! Hard to disagree with anything you’re saying. 

[Success]

On 2/13/2024 at 10:30 AM, SaulGoodman said:

 

Basically every pundit said the Chiefs looked like the better team in that game. The only thing that kept it a one-score game was Hardman's goal line fumble. 

 

Ah yes - the goal line fumble.  The only mistake made in the game, apparently.

 

Well, except for the 60-yarder to Diggs that was on a rope & dropped, or the similar pass to Sherfield.  And the missed FG.  

 

I didn't hear "every pundit" say that the Chiefs looked like the better team.  That was a coin flip game.

 

 

Edited February 17 by Success

[SaulGoodman]

19 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Ah yes - the goal line fumble.  The only mistake made in the game, apparently.

 

Well, except for the 60-yarder to Diggs that was on a rope & dropped, or the similar pass to Sherfield.  And the missed FG.  

 

I didn't hear "every pundit" say that the Chiefs looked like the better team.  That was a coin flip game.

 

 

A mediocre kicker missing a 44-yard under major pressure isn’t a mistake. He was 2/5 in the playoffs. 
 

And you’re preaching to the choir about drops. If KC’s receivers hadn’t led the league in drops by a mile, that game wouldn’t have been played in Buffalo.

[Success]

16 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

A mediocre kicker missing a 44-yard under major pressure isn’t a mistake. He was 2/5 in the playoffs. 
 

And you’re preaching to the choir about drops. If KC’s receivers hadn’t led the league in drops by a mile, that game wouldn’t have been played in Buffalo.

 

But KC's receivers didn't have those drops against the Bills.  They uncharacteristically made spectacular catches, all game.

 

[beebe]

The Bills did a pretty good job of sustaining drives and maintaining possession in the playoff game vs the Chiefs. Buffalo faced 3rd or 4th down 17 times in the game, including: 

 

3rd-and-17

4th-and-1

3rd-and-8

3rd-and-8

3rd-and-12

3rd-and-10

4th-and-3

3rd-and-9

 

They converted 7-of-14 on 3rd down and 2-of-3 on 4th down. This was definitely an overachieve vs KC's defense and likely a bit lucky. The Bills also did a nice job of playing a fairly clean game offensively. The only offensive penalty of any substance was the illegal batting penalty after the Diggs fumble. Otherwise it was a pretty clean game. The turnover battle was technically won by the Bills 1-0. But it was really 0-0 for all intents and purposes. The Hamlin fake punt was essentially a turnover, and it was quickly offset by Hardman's fumble out of the end zone. Where the Bills did get a bit lucky is recovering both the Diggs fumble (opening drive) and the Allen fumble (final drive), which would have been a game-ender had KC dove on it rather than attempt a scoop-and-score. 

 

The Bills had about three good chances to make plays downfield but couldn't come up with any of them. This was probably the most alarming part of the game. In the history of the NFL, has a top-5 offense ever ran 78 plays and have NONE of them go 20+ yards? The biggest play of the game was an 18-yard Josh Allen run. No pass (of 39 attempted) went for a gain of more than 15 yards. As a result, the Bills went just 4.7 yards per play. In the regular season game vs the Chiefs, they went for just 4.5 yards per play (42 pass attempts), their 2nd worst output of the entire season. So two games vs KC, 151 plays (81 passes), 4.7 yards per play. The Bills definitely did well at "taking what the Chiefs gave them," but neither output was as impressive as people think, and the 3rd and 4th down conversion rate is likely unsustainable. 

[Success]

8 hours ago, beebe said:

 

KC was down their top 2 safeties (Cook and Edwards) and a starting LB (Gay) vs the Bills. They lost their All-Pro left guard (Thuney) in the third quarter. Hard to lose a #2 wide receiver when every receiver on the roster besides Rice sucks. They were without Skyy Moore and Toney - two of their seven receivers on the team - and didn't have Jerick McKinnon, their best pass catcher out of the backfield. This year's Chiefs offense stunk.

 

They won a Super Bowl with a receiving corps of Rice, MVS, Watson, Hardman and Richie James, two god-awful tackles and a backup LG filling in for an All-Pro on offense, and a center who snapped worm burners into the turf all game. They can play another decade and not have a worse offense than they had this year.

 

They were much healthier than the Bills heading into the game.  It's not really comparable.

 

[Dan in Owego]

3 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

A mediocre kicker missing a 44-yard under major pressure isn’t a mistake. He was 2/5 in the playoffs. 
 

And you’re preaching to the choir about drops. If KC’s receivers hadn’t led the league in drops by a mile, that game wouldn’t have been played in Buffalo.

You have to come to the wrong place to complain about drops, been near the top for a while🙄

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

A mediocre kicker missing a 44-yard under major pressure isn’t a mistake. He was 2/5 in the playoffs. 
 

And you’re preaching to the choir about drops. If KC’s receivers hadn’t led the league in drops by a mile, that game wouldn’t have been played in Buffalo.

It’s crazy that KC won the Superbowl this year despite having a mediocre wr corp. KC already beat the Bills on the field so let us complain about our team. Trying to one up us in the ‘team’s shortcomings’ dept is overkill at this point don’t you think? lol 

[SaulGoodman]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

But KC's receivers didn't have those drops against the Bills.  They uncharacteristically made spectacular catches, all game.

 

This is the kind of bogus narrative I’m talking about. There weren’t any spectacular catches by KC receivers in that game. 
 

People’s expectations for MVS were so low that just seeing him catch passes that hit him in the hands seemed spectacular. But the reality is his hands aren’t that bad. People fixate on a few costly plays.
 

Watson dropped an early pass that would have resulted in a first down. Rice had one of his least productive games in months. Hardman had the goal line fumble and another that was recovered. Mistakes were still made and nothing out of the ordinary happened. The difference was that Toney and Moore weren’t activated. 
 

By far the best catch in that game was Shakir’s in the end zone. 

[beebe]

10 hours ago, Success said:

 

They were much healthier than the Bills heading into the game.  It's not really comparable.

 

 

On what planet isn't it comparable? The Bills had almost every single player on offense available. All five starting offensive linemen, all their running backs, Josh Allen, all their tight ends, and every receiver except for Gabe Davis—and most of us think the offense has run better with Davis off the field. In fact, his absence helped Shakir get more snaps, and Shakir finished with a team-best 7 catches. So the Bills were down Davis on offense, while the Chiefs were down Toney (sucks), Moore (decent but mostly sucks), McKinnon (great weapon for KC) and lost Thuney (All Pro) in the third quarter. Nothing to really write home about for either team on offense. 

 

Defensively, after the first series, the Chiefs were without starting safety Mike Edwards and starting linebacker Willie Gay. They began the game without starting DT Derrick Nnadi. Their original starting safety Bryan Cook (Edwards is a backup) was injured a month earlier. 

 

Buffalo had its entire defensive line available to play. They had their two starting safeties Hyde and Poyer who played every snap. Taron Johnson, Rasul Douglas and Dane Jackson all played 100% of the snaps. Yes, the Bills lost Tre White early season—but his loss necessitated the trade for Douglas who gave them better play than White was giving them. So 9 to 10 of the Bills' defensive regulars on defense played to capacity, and 10 (arguably 11) of their best offensive players played. Buffalo had access to 19 or 20 of their 22 best players overall. If you read this forum, you'd think they played with about six healthy players.

 

The biggest loss was obviously Bernard, which led to Klein being on the field, who the Chiefs targeted repeatedly. But again, the collective absences - clustered as they were - weren't what many here make them out to be. The Bills began the week as 2.5 point favorites and finished the week as 2.5 point favorites. There is such a thing as building roster depth and developing young players who can perform when needed. 

 

If being without Terrel Bernard and a couple replacement level defensive backups is enough to tank your season, then you weren't very good to begin with. 

 

The Chiefs replaced DT Nnadi with a heavier dose of journeyman Mike Pennel (signed off the street midseason) and Matt Dickerson (undrafted, journeyman, practice squad regular); they gave Willie Gay's snaps to offseason signing Dru Tranquill (most snaps he had since Week 12) and LB Leo Chenal (3rd round pick in his second year.) They gave safety Edwards' snaps to fourth-round rookie Chamarri Conner, who played 99% of snaps and actually performed great. Thuney was replaced by Nick Allegretti, the try-hard backup who was a former 7th-round pick. Outside of Kelce and Rice, Mahomes was throwing balls to MVS, Noah Gray, Mecole Hardman, Justin Watson and Clyde Edwards. The degree of difficulty wasn't exactly high! It is without question the worst collection of offensive talent the Bills will face in the next several years when going against the Chiefs. And yet, the Chiefs offense did what the Chiefs offense did in prior playoff meetings vs the Bills — even when the Bills were fully healthy, even when the Bills had top-5 level defenses — they ran circles around them. 

Edited February 17 by beebe

[nucci]

KC has won 2 in a row and 3 of the last 5 Superbowls. Kinda makes them the better team.

[Cubanmist 1]

Actually, the Bills defense has got to be better and shut down KCs options at TE and WR.

[beebe]

21 minutes ago, Cubanmist 1 said:

Actually, the Bills defense has got to be better and shut down KCs options at TE and WR.

 

The fact is, Klein or no Klein, the Bills (like most teams) haven't been particularly good at slowing down Kelce. Milano was fully healthy for at least three previous iterations of Chiefs-Bills from 2020 thru 2022. No matter who the Bills put on him, he succeeded.

 

8 catches on 9 targets, 96 yards, TD

13 catches on 15 targets, 118 yards, two TDs

5 catches on 7 targets, 65 yards

6 catches on 10 targets, 57 yards, TD

8 catches on 10 targets, 108 yards

 

Kelce had the game-winner over Milano in the 13 seconds game and had 21 catches on 24 targets for 214 yards and three TDs in the 2020 and 2021 playoff games. 

 

This year, without Milano, Kelce had 6 catches on 10 targets for 83 yards in the regular season game and 5 catches (6 targets) for 75 yards and two TDs in the playoff game. 

Edited February 17 by beebe

[frostbitmic]

The Bills made the Chiefs. The Bills were on the clock and Mahomes was sitting there, the Bills traded the pick to the Chiefs, the Chiefs drafted Mahomes and the rest is history.

 

 

[CodeMonkey]

Cap situation what it is, we'll see how this comparison stands up next season.

1 hour ago, frostbitmic said:

The Bills made the Chiefs. The Bills were on the clock and Mahomes was sitting there, the Bills traded the pick to the Chiefs, the Chiefs drafted Mahomes and the rest is history.

 

 

Yeah, misses like that in the draft can hurt teams for many years.

[The 9 Isles]

Are they? 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3gDCRvPxxz/?igsh=b2JkcHFsdDNhaXR2

[SaulGoodman]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:22 AM, beebe said:

 

On what planet isn't it comparable? The Bills had almost every single player on offense available. All five starting offensive linemen, all their running backs, Josh Allen, all their tight ends, and every receiver except for Gabe Davis—and most of us think the offense has run better with Davis off the field. In fact, his absence helped Shakir get more snaps, and Shakir finished with a team-best 7 catches. So the Bills were down Davis on offense, while the Chiefs were down Toney (sucks), Moore (decent but mostly sucks), McKinnon (great weapon for KC) and lost Thuney (All Pro) in the third quarter. Nothing to really write home about for either team on offense. 

 

Defensively, after the first series, the Chiefs were without starting safety Mike Edwards and starting linebacker Willie Gay. They began the game without starting DT Derrick Nnadi. Their original starting safety Bryan Cook (Edwards is a backup) was injured a month earlier. 

 

Buffalo had its entire defensive line available to play. They had their two starting safeties Hyde and Poyer who played every snap. Taron Johnson, Rasul Douglas and Dane Jackson all played 100% of the snaps. Yes, the Bills lost Tre White early season—but his loss necessitated the trade for Douglas who gave them better play than White was giving them. So 9 to 10 of the Bills' defensive regulars on defense played to capacity, and 10 (arguably 11) of their best offensive players played. Buffalo had access to 19 or 20 of their 22 best players overall. If you read this forum, you'd think they played with about six healthy players.

 

The biggest loss was obviously Bernard, which led to Klein being on the field, who the Chiefs targeted repeatedly. But again, the collective absences - clustered as they were - weren't what many here make them out to be. The Bills began the week as 2.5 point favorites and finished the week as 2.5 point favorites. There is such a thing as building roster depth and developing young players who can perform when needed. 

 

If being without Terrel Bernard and a couple replacement level defensive backups is enough to tank your season, then you weren't very good to begin with. 

 

The Chiefs replaced DT Nnadi with a heavier dose of journeyman Mike Pennel (signed off the street midseason) and Matt Dickerson (undrafted, journeyman, practice squad regular); they gave Willie Gay's snaps to offseason signing Dru Tranquill (most snaps he had since Week 12) and LB Leo Chenal (3rd round pick in his second year.) They gave safety Edwards' snaps to fourth-round rookie Chamarri Conner, who played 99% of snaps and actually performed great. Thuney was replaced by Nick Allegretti, the try-hard backup who was a former 7th-round pick. Outside of Kelce and Rice, Mahomes was throwing balls to MVS, Noah Gray, Mecole Hardman, Justin Watson and Clyde Edwards. The degree of difficulty wasn't exactly high! It is without question the worst collection of offensive talent the Bills will face in the next several years when going against the Chiefs. And yet, the Chiefs offense did what the Chiefs offense did in prior playoff meetings vs the Bills — even when the Bills were fully healthy, even when the Bills had top-5 level defenses — they ran circles around them. 

 

Agreed. Bills would not have been 2.5 point favorites if they were as depleted as the fanbase claims. Like you said, Bernard was a pretty big loss and KC took advantage. Just like the Bills took advantage of bums like Sorenson and Niemann in the 13 seconds game, and DBs falling down or blowing assignments every other play. 

 

 

[Sweats]

On 2/17/2024 at 10:14 AM, Cubanmist 1 said:

Actually, the Bills defense has got to be better and shut down KCs options at TE and WR.

 

 

 

Good point.

KC doesn't have a whole of O weapons, however, what they do have are "ballers".....you shut down the main core of Kelce and Pacheco (i'm not even going to mention their WR's cause without Hill, i don't see them as much of a threat) and that team is a one man show with Mahomo. You take away the RPO, you take away the run game and you take away Kelce.....there's not much left after that.

 

The problem is, the fans see it, the players see it, the HC and FO see it and yet, we can never stop it. We can never seem to game plan around it.

 

#confusedashell