Super Bowl LVIII game thread.

[SaulGoodman]

6 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If Allen learns to do the “little things” maybe one day he can score 1 TD and 1 INT in regulation of a Super Bowl too. Inspiring stuff.

I’ve seen a lot of complaining on here about Allen’s supporting cast. Yet you think he’d kill it with worse tackles, much weaker receivers and a weaker running game? 

[SaulGoodman]

1 minute ago, DapperCam said:

The KC games are like 1/3 of the games and over 1/2 of our losses. Why would you take those out? Do they not count?

Like I said, I don’t think it’s rational to expect a defense to shut down a team that’s 15-3 in the playoffs and has been a scoring machine every year before this. You’re going to have to outscore them. 
 

I’ve often heard it said that Allen couldn’t have done more in the divisional game in 2021. Well, they punted on half their possessions, so clearly the offense could have done more. And it’s never mentioned that Mahomes was facing the #1 rated D while Allen was facing a mediocre one. Or that several of the big plays occurred because receivers were running wide open due to broken coverage and DBs falling down. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

When I game was on the line and they needed a TD to win, he did was great QBs do. Drove them down the field to win. 

This is a tough concept for some to comprehend. Reading through the comments you’d think Chris Jones was the one running to keep that last drive alive and threw the winning TD. 

[Punch]

20 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If Allen learns to do the “little things” maybe one day he can score 1 TD and 1 INT in regulation of a Super Bowl too. Inspiring stuff.

As it stands, Allen is tied for the fewest interceptions in Super Bowl history.

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

The thing about comparing players midstream is that it's fun but you never know what happens.

 

What if Allen and the Bills hit on some young playmakers this off-season, beat KC next playoffs and go on to win 3 Super Bowls in a row? Or our own 3 wins in 5 years?

 

We've had a lot of bad luck but that will even out. Maybe not with multiple SB wins but you never know. 

 

Let's say Allen gets to 3 in 5 years but wins all 3, beating KC each year to get there.

 

Conversation changes then. 

 

 

The conversation would definitely change if that were to happen. But in this current reality the conversation is what it is. 

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Holy **** just answer the question..

 

Mahomes on the Bills teams we’ve had for Allen. 
 

Dynasty, yes?

Hypotheticals. All we have are hypotheticals as we hate watch Mahomes win Superbowls. 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

[DapperCam]

8 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

I’ve seen a lot of complaining on here about Allen’s supporting cast. Yet you think he’d kill it with worse tackles, much weaker receivers and a weaker running game? 

Personally, I think it is more about coaching than supporting cast. I think Reid is a genius and 100x the coach McDermott is. I think the KC defense puts it together in the playoffs when they need to and the Bills defense chokes. I think KC special teams does what they need to and the Bills doesn’t.

 

Consider the Bills - KC playoff game from this year. Mahomes was throwing against Elam, Dane Jackson and Cam Lewis at Nickel. And Klein was coverage LBer on Kelce most of the game. All backups and healthy scratches parts of the season.

 

Allen was facing McDuffie, Sneed and Bolton. All Pro Bowl and All Pro caliber players. Supporting cast matters. One guy has a much harder job than the other in that game.

[mannc]

The thing that stands out to me, watching this game, is that both teams have a lot of star players, huge difference makers:  Kelce, Mahomes, Chris Jones, McDuffie, Snead…McCaffery, Samuel, Trent Williams, Bosa, Fred Warner…the Bills have 1 guy in that category.  It’s just not enough.

[SaulGoodman]

56 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Personally, I think it is more about coaching than supporting cast. I think Reid is a genius and 100x the coach McDermott is. I think the KC defense puts it together in the playoffs when they need to and the Bills defense chokes. I think KC special teams does what they need to and the Bills doesn’t.

 

Consider the Bills - KC playoff game from this year. Mahomes was throwing against Elam, Dane Jackson and Cam Lewis at Nickel. And Klein was coverage LBer on Kelce most of the game. All backups and healthy scratches parts of the season.

 

Allen was facing McDuffie, Sneed and Bolton. All Pro Bowl and All Pro caliber players. Supporting cast matters. One guy has a much harder job than the other in that game.

Yes, supporting cast matters. But it’s debatable that KC’s had the better supporting cast, especially the last two years. People pick and choose whatever fits the argument. First it was that he had Tyreek Hill. When he was traded, the narrative shifted to it’s unfair that he has an all world TE. Now that Kelce is aging, and the WRs and tackles are weak, the narrative shifts to he has a better defense. 

Let’s not forget that the Bills were favored in that game. Allen was at home and had more offensive talent around him. Not sure I’d say he had the harder task. Mahomes had to play a near-perfect game to win. 

Also, there seems to be a lot of revisionism regarding Buffalo’s talent. Leading up to the divisional round, almost every Bills fan was predicting a win and a run to the SB. Only after the game did I see the claim that they lacked the talent to do it.

[GETTOTHE50]

The lions were the class of the NFC obviously.

 

Niners got in off a flukey play.

[UKBillFan]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

100%. If I could go back to 2000, I’d draft Brady too. Everyone will agree on this in 20 years.

 

I wouldn't, as talent wise I don't see a big enough gap between Mahomes and Josh to warrant it - whilst acknowledging Mahomes is a great QB. Mahomes went into a situation where everything well into place for him, whilst Josh has had to fight on so many levels and be patient for the Bills to get where they are.

 

Put Mahomes on the Bills roster in 2017 and I think he would have struggled more than Josh for things to click, less because he doesn't have the talent to do so - of course he does - but more because his temperament would have quickly seen him get frustrated and annoyed at things not working out, which would have affected his play and the play of the players on offense.

 

This is just my opinion. Mahomes is the number one QB but so many things have to fall into place to get something to work outside of the QB's control. It has for him. It hasn't for Josh.

4 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

You mean the clock ran out so he had to settle for a FG. Then he went on for the TD? You like to play the hypothetical game. Do you not believe the Chiefs score a TD if they have 30 seconds more? If you can jog my memory did the Bills also run out of time? 

 

No, they mean St Patrick missed a completely open Rice on the final play before the FG to throw the ball to a covered Kelce.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I mean you literally have to ignore and throw out whatever the regular season ranking was for our defense.  It's all meaningless once the playoffs start.  That #1 or #3 ranked defense turns to mush real fast.  Other than Taron's pic6,  I can't remember one critical stop by our defense in 10 playoff games.  Pathetic, no wonder Andy fired his ass.

Can't really argue close to 37 points against in elimination games . Could've been worse if Cinny didn't take the foot of our throat last yr. Is there really anything else we can say? 

[HIT BY SPIKES]

I still think THE best part of last night’s game was Alicia Keys’ ass.

 

I found some analysis on it.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

I think we are at the point where we have to ask if it is ever going to happen for this iteration of the 49ers. They have less than $1m in cap space for 2024 and while they don't have a ton of big ticket FAs to keep they also are paying a QB peanuts. This time next year they have to pay Purdy and that means reducing some of what ia around him. I sort of felt like this year was now or never, next year is proper last chance saloon. And their window isn't like the Bills where even in a down year or a mini re-set you can say "we have a chance because we have #17." Purdy is good but at this point he isn't putting the team on his back and we saw that last night when they got away from the run in the 3rd.

 

They feel very like the Bills to me. A really good team that just can't find a way past Kansas City when it matters. Flip the conferences and they are still waiting to go to a Superbowl and the Bills have lost twice in the big game. 

[Shortchaz]

5 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

If you take out the KC games, Allen’s defenses have allowed 20 ppg in the playoffs. Only one team scored 30 and the Bills won that game. 
 

I don’t think it’s rational to expect a defense to shut down Mahomes/Reid/Kelce in the playoffs. 
 

Mahomes’ defenses before this season allowed over 25 ppg in the playoffs. They’ve allowed 30+ 5 times. 

The chiefs scored 17 points and beat the 1 seed, on the road. 
 

they held the 2 seed to 7 points in the second half, zero in the fourth quarter, on the road. 

[Shortchaz]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think we are at the point where we have to ask if it is ever going to happen for this iteration of the 49ers. They have less than $1m in cap space for 2024 and while they don't have a ton of big ticket FAs to keep they also are paying a QB peanuts. This time next year they have to pay Purdy and that means reducing some of what ia around him. I sort of felt like this year was now or never, next year is proper last chance saloon. And their window isn't like the Bills where even in a down year or a mini re-set you can say "we have a chance because we have #17." Purdy is good but at this point he isn't putting the team on his back and we saw that last night when they got away from the run in the 3rd.

 

They feel very like the Bills to me. A really good team that just can't find a way past Kansas City when it matters. Flip the conferences and they are still waiting to go to a Superbowl and the Bills have lost twice in the big game. 

They completely blew it this game. Their 3rd down offense was awful. they kept getting behind the sticks with odd play selection at the juncture where they should’ve been taking complete control of the game (start of second half). They tried to make Brock Purdy the hero of the game and he wasn’t. It reminded me of Seattle vs the patriots where they kept trying to make Russel Wilson the hero. San Francisco could’ve called running plays 20 more times than they did. 

Edited February 12 by Shortchaz

[zow2]

8 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Mahomes did not lead the Chiefs to victory tonight. Their defense did. Something Josh cannot rely on come the post season.

 

I agree about the defense, they played awesome...but Mahomes did make plays to tie at the end and he lead them to the winning TD in OT.   You can't just say he was along for the ride.  He willed them to win imo.  He has the it factor.

[BBFL]

28 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

San Francisco could’ve called running plays 20 more times than they did. 

It’s this. 100%. Someone pointed out to me that that perspective/narrative isn’t true when it absolutely is. 
 

Between the FG to start the 2nd quarter and the TD drive late in the 3rd into the 4th, they ran a total of 5 times…. FIVE. 6 if you include the one that was negated by a defensive penalty on KC. 

 

There were 7 drives in total meaning at the least you should be running it 7 times, let’s say 10 for parity that you attempt a run on 1st and 2nd down… The fact that they gave the leading rusher/OPOTY the ball only 3 times in that time frame is criminal…

 

Exactly like the Baltimore Ravens… In the biggest game of their season T hey abandoned the identity what got them there. Absolutely mind boggling. 
 

People state that they couldn’t run on KC… While contextually that’s true, you take it with a grain of salt when you only give your guy 3 touches over 7 drives. 
 

Shannahan lost them the game… Seems to be the case very frequently when teams go up against KC and Reid… The coaching let’s them down. 
 

Dolphins, Bills, Ravens and now the 9ers had some form of error in a coaching stand point. If people don’t think coaching matters just as much as the QB, you’re delusional. 3 games in a row came down to it for the Chiefs. 
 

 

 

Edited February 12 by BBFL

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, Calidiehard said:

Didn't say lucky, said they have benefited from having a great team and coach around them. In comparison to say Josh, He can play great, but when has his defense stepped up and made a play in the post season when needed against the Chiefs?

“They are very lucky. Stars aligned.”

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Here's another one for you. Let me know if you disagree with any of these statements. In that divisional round, the following groups performed better for the listed team:

 

RB - Wash

WR - Chiefs

TE - Chiefs

OL - Chiefs (slight lean, if you want to call it a wash I won't argue)

DL - Chiefs

LB - Chiefs

Secondary - Chiefs

Special teams - Chiefs

Coaching - Chiefs

 

Are we on the same page here? I'll assume we are with maybe one or two groups switching to a wash.

 

So help me out here - Assume you're correct that the Chiefs QB also outplayed the Bills QB. How is it that a team where just about every possible factor was better than their opponent, and their opponent had no such advantages, only won by 3 points? That seems impossible.

 

Unless of course their opponent did have an advantage somewhere, perhaps at the most important position on the team?

 

 

Lol of course that isn't a homer opinion. That is a plain fact.

 

Woah woah, I want to hear your thoughts on what I said first. I’ve already exercised enough.

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

I wouldn't, as talent wise I don't see a big enough gap between Mahomes and Josh to warrant it - whilst acknowledging Mahomes is a great QB. Mahomes went into a situation where everything well into place for him, whilst Josh has had to fight on so many levels and be patient for the Bills to get where they are.

 

Put Mahomes on the Bills roster in 2017 and I think he would have struggled more than Josh for things to click, less because he doesn't have the talent to do so - of course he does - but more because his temperament would have quickly seen him get frustrated and annoyed at things not working out, which would have affected his play and the play of the players on offense.

 

This is just my opinion. Mahomes is the number one QB but so many things have to fall into place to get something to work outside of the QB's control. It has for him. It hasn't for Josh.

 

No, they mean St Patrick missed a completely open Rice on the final play before the FG to throw the ball to a covered Kelce.

You would knowingly take a worse QB? Why?

 

Would you have taken Drew Brees over Brady as well?

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I think we are at the point where we have to ask if it is ever going to happen for this iteration of the 49ers. They have less than $1m in cap space for 2024 and while they don't have a ton of big ticket FAs to keep they also are paying a QB peanuts. This time next year they have to pay Purdy and that means reducing some of what ia around him. I sort of felt like this year was now or never, next year is proper last chance saloon. And their window isn't like the Bills where even in a down year or a mini re-set you can say "we have a chance because we have #17." Purdy is good but at this point he isn't putting the team on his back and we saw that last night when they got away from the run in the 3rd.

 

They feel very like the Bills to me. A really good team that just can't find a way past Kansas City when it matters. Flip the conferences and they are still waiting to go to a Superbowl and the Bills have lost twice in the big game. 

It’s clearly NEVER going to happen for Shanahan. He forgot CMC was on the team for the third Q.

[SCBills]

5 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

Yes, supporting cast matters. But it’s debatable that KC’s had the better supporting cast, especially the last two years. People pick and choose whatever fits the argument. First it was that he had Tyreek Hill. When he was traded, the narrative shifted to it’s unfair that he has an all world TE. Now that Kelce is aging, and the WRs and tackles are weak, the narrative shifts to he has a better defense. 

Let’s not forget that the Bills were favored in that game. Allen was at home and had more offensive talent around him. Not sure I’d say he had the harder task. Mahomes had to play a near-perfect game to win. 

Also, there seems to be a lot of revisionism regarding Buffalo’s talent. Leading up to the divisional round, almost every Bills fan was predicting a win and a run to the SB. Only after the game did I see the claim that they lacked the talent to do it.

There should be revisionism..

 

Iron sharpens iron and playoffs are where you find out what you’re made of. 

 

And it’s a little bizarre to me to act like we had more talent when we were down Gabe Davis and Diggs looked entirely like a WR2 down the stretch.

 

Nevermind the fact that Allen had to go up against a mostly healthy elite defense, whereas Mahomes faced a mash unit back 7 for us.  Maybe that somehow doesn’t matter to you .. it certainly doesn’t seem to matter in the ESPN world that portrays QB’s as if they are playing each other 1v1.