PromoTheRobot Posted February 8 Posted February 8 He's talented. A real weapon. But he'll break your heart at the worst times. 1 1 1 1 Quote
phypon Posted February 8 Posted February 8 20 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I don't know how anybody could watch Singletary and Cook play and conclude they are similar in any way. Their respective strengths and weaknesses are virtually inverses of each other. I guess I could list the reasons out just for your benefit, but you should know that exactly zero other Bills fans will share your comparison, even those that don't like Cook as much can still see that his playing style is completely different from Singletary. Yours is probably the weirdest single comparison I've ever seen to be honest, no offense. Aaaannnnd...crickets... 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted February 8 Posted February 8 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference." Buffalo has been blessed with some talented backs over the years. For instance, Cookie was a bruiser. OJ was an elusive artist. Thurman was a Swiss army knife. All were tremendous in their distinctive ways. GB, I don't agree that all the people who want to upgrade Cook want a different style. They just want someone better. I like Cook well enough but if I had the chance to replace him with a clone of Cookie, or OJ, or Thurm, I would. Any one of them. The more potent our running game is, the less defenses can focus on stopping Josh. Imagine if we had a RB who was as talented as our QB. How do you defend that? Where I might disagree with those wanting an upgrade is in the evaluation of the opportunity cost. With only so many cap dollars and draft picks to spend, we can't chase everything we may want. We have bigger needs than RB - positions where an upgrade would provide a bigger ROI. 2 Quote
1ManRaid Posted February 8 Posted February 8 18 hours ago, Beast said: Cook was 3rd in yards from scrimmage for all running backs. What else needs to be said? Stop dropping easy TD passes? 1 Quote
Rubes Posted February 8 Posted February 8 I have to say, he had the quietest "3rd in the league in yards from scrimmage" year I can recall. I wouldn't have guessed it after watching the season. 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 8 Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Buffalo has been blessed with some talented backs over the years. For instance, Cookie was a bruiser. OJ was an elusive artist. Thurman was a Swiss army knife. All were tremendous in their distinctive ways. GB, I don't agree that all the people who want to upgrade Cook want a different style. They just want someone better. I like Cook well enough but if I had the chance to replace him with a clone of Cookie, or OJ, or Thurm, I would. Any one of them. The more potent our running game is, the less defenses can focus on stopping Josh. Imagine if we had a RB who was as talented as our QB. How do you defend that? Where I might disagree with those wanting an upgrade is in the evaluation of the opportunity cost. With only so many cap dollars and draft picks to spend, we can't chase everything we may want. We have bigger needs than RB - positions where an upgrade would provide a bigger ROI. Yea but how many elite backs are there now? Very, very few. Because in the days of OJ and even Thurm the best athletes played running back. Now they are playing Quarterback and Wide Receiver. CMC is literally the only back in the NFL this year who I think has impacted the eventual W-L of his team. And Cook isn't CMC, obviously. But the list of other guys I'd take isn't massive. 1 1 1 Quote
eball Posted February 8 Posted February 8 33 minutes ago, phypon said: You're still focusing on the second question. I already said I think he's an adequate back. I don't think he's "elite". If you think he's elite, so be it. That's fine. I respect your position. I have no issue with him on the team and I hope he continues to grow as a player. We're talking about "above average" -- not "elite." I certainly never used that word. Is it so difficult to admit Cook is above average? 1 1 Quote
phypon Posted February 8 Posted February 8 1 minute ago, eball said: We're talking about "above average" -- not "elite." I certainly never used that word. Is it so difficult to admit Cook is above average? We're not talking about above average. You responded to my post where I said he is not "elite" and I also disagreed that he is above average. I don't think he is above average. I've already said that. You feel differently, and that's fine. 1 2 Quote
Process Posted February 8 Posted February 8 I don't think Cook has any elite qualities (speed, elusiveness, power, pass catching etc) but think he's overall a good back and a guy I'm happy to have as our starter. Not someone I would give a second contract too. To be clear, there are exactly 0 RBs I would want to give a big contract too. Ride him for the next two years and then on to the next one. Needs to work on the drops. 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted February 8 Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea but how many elite backs are there now? Very, very few. Because in the days of OJ and even Thurm the best athletes played running back. Now they are playing Quarterback and Wide Receiver. CMC is literally the only back in the NFL this year who I think has impacted the eventual W-L of his team. And Cook isn't CMC, obviously. But the list of other guys I'd take isn't massive. The bolded is very true. Back in the 60s and 70s, NFL offenses were built around RBs, and college backs were drafted high, often 1st overall. If you were young, fast and athletic, you wanted to be a RB. Slow-footed, less-athletic guys found other positions to play, like QB. Now the best athletes are WRs and DBs. And, as you say, more and more of them are becoming QBs. If the next CMC was in the draft, I'd want him the way an addict wants his next score. But would the level of confidence be high enough to ignore all our other - more blatant - needs? Probably not. Some stats guru, I don't recall which one, once analyzed player injuries. The loss of a starting QB was the only injury that made a measurable statistical difference in W-L probabilities. I imagine that works in reverse, too. Getting a back that's maybe 5% better than your current starting back probably won't impact your season record. Finding someone 20% better, which might, is unlikely unless you have a truly awful starter. Cook isn't truly awful. It's taken a while for me to admit this but he's actually good. Yet, I still fantasize about a backfield that consists of Josh and Thurman Thomas. And when we want power, Cookie Gilchrist comes in at FB. 1 Quote
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 8 Posted February 8 7 hours ago, ddaryl said: him dropping passes is worrisome. 4 of the 7 came in the last 3 games I think. Hit a wall? Quote
LABILLBACKER Posted February 8 Posted February 8 27 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Buffalo has been blessed with some talented backs over the years. For instance, Cookie was a bruiser. OJ was an elusive artist. Thurman was a Swiss army knife. All were tremendous in their distinctive ways. GB, I don't agree that all the people who want to upgrade Cook want a different style. They just want someone better. I like Cook well enough but if I had the chance to replace him with a clone of Cookie, or OJ, or Thurm, I would. Any one of them. The more potent our running game is, the less defenses can focus on stopping Josh. Imagine if we had a RB who was as talented as our QB. How do you defend that? Where I might disagree with those wanting an upgrade is in the evaluation of the opportunity cost. With only so many cap dollars and draft picks to spend, we can't chase everything we may want. We have bigger needs than RB - positions where an upgrade would provide a bigger ROI. I would replace him with those Bills rbs you mentioned because they all had substantially more focus & concentration. That's the biggest thing that's keeping James Cook from an elite top 3 RB. His talent is literally off the charts. We see the speed running and his ability to get separation on wheel routes. But it's all meaningless if he can't finish the play. It's like a shortstop making an unbelievable diving play, only to throw the ball 10 rows up in the stands. The mental toughness, focus and concentration required to play in the NFL must include holding on to the damn ball. This isn't a 1 year problem either. Hopefully this kid figures it out? 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 8 Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, Process said: I don't think Cook has any elite qualities (speed, elusiveness, power, pass catching etc) but think he's overall a good back and a guy I'm happy to have as our starter. Not someone I would give a second contract too. To be clear, there are exactly 0 RBs I would want to give a big contract too. Ride him for the next two years and then on to the next one. Needs to work on the drops. Over the last decade - CMC, Kamara, Henry and I'd have extended Taylor too. That is it. 4. 1 1 1 1 Quote
Thrivefourfive Posted February 8 Posted February 8 Definitely RB1 quality. This is either going one of two ways.. use him early and often and he’s toast at 27/28 years old. Or manage handoffs and he gets an extra year or two added on to a career that won’t end in Buffalo. I vote for option 1. 1 Quote
Beast Posted February 8 Posted February 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said: That he needs to catch the ball when it's thrown to him for TDs OK, so you think he needs to be replaced as our #1 back? Because isn’t that the topic of the thread? Edited February 8 by Beast Quote
Chaos Posted February 8 Posted February 8 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Sorry Cook is a clear tier up from Singletary. Is he elite? No. But he is a clear #1 back and Singletary isn't. How many wins more did the bills have in 2023 with Cook, then they would have had with Singletary. if the number is zero, then Cook and Singletary are identical 1 1 Quote
GunnerBill Posted February 8 Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, Chaos said: How many wins more did the bills have in 2023 with Cook, then they would have had with Singletary. if the number is zero, then Cook and Singletary are identical Nah it isn't zero. And I am someone who doesn't think RBs matter. 1 Quote
ddaryl Posted February 8 Posted February 8 48 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: 4 of the 7 came in the last 3 games I think. Hit a wall? The part that bothers me is he was open by 5 yards on a few of those drops and I believe at least 1 was a sure TD if he holds on Quote
Koufax Posted February 8 Posted February 8 I love him as RB1. Just really excited that when down 3 with 2:42 to go and first and 10 from the KC27 we don't run him right guard for 1 yard. He is sometimes going to get bottled up and needs holes. He is sometimes going to drop passes, so use him accordingly. Quote
Chaos Posted February 8 Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Nah it isn't zero. And I am someone who doesn't think RBs matter. I as certain as can be that it rounds to zero. Bills would have won 11 games with Singletary. Hell, the Texans won 11 games with him. 1 2 Quote
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