What are your feelings on James Cook RB1

[phypon]

@WhitewalkerInPhilly. If you think Cook is Thurman Thomas, I don't want what you're smoking.  Cook is Singletary 2.0.  Unfortunately, Pacheco is > Cook.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

31 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

Definitely a number #1 in the current NFL. The current model seems to be "by committee" unless you have a special back, and honestly CMC and Cook fall into that category. Even they have #2 support. Solid #2 hard running options are usually cheap to pick up (see Damien Harris and Ty Johnson)

Cook is a very talented player. Not debating that at all. But putting him into the same sentence as CMC is laughable. Cook has all the skill to be a productive, useful and popular player. But he's someone that's destined to fall back into a committee backfield unless he can clean up:

 

-Drops

-Fumbles

-And just as important: Pass Protection

 

There are going to be several guys that could be an inexpensive #2 RB that would make sense for the Bills to sign. Possible FAs this year include familiar faces (Zach Moss and Motor) as well as guys that have past success against the Bills (CEH: who also has spent time with Joe Brady). Wouldn't shock me if one of them are back to take some responsibility off Cook.

 

I definitely think Cook has a prominent role on the offense, but seems like he's a guy that may be able to be more explosive with fewer touches (similar to the Dolphins Achane)

Edited February 8 by BuffaloBillyG

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

19 minutes ago, phypon said:

@WhitewalkerInPhilly. If you think Cook is Thurman Thomas, I don't want what you're smoking.  Cook is Singletary 2.0.  Unfortunately, Pacheco is > Cook.  

 

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Cook is a very talented player. Not debating that at all. But putting him into the same sentence as CMC is laughable. Cook has all the skill to be a productive, useful and popular player. But he's someone that's destined to fall back into a committee backfield unless he can clean up:

 

-Drops

-Fumbles

-And just as important: Pass Protection

 

There are going to be several guys that could be an inexpensive #2 RB that would make sense for the Bills to sign. Possible FAs this year include familiar faces (Zach Moss and Motor) as well as guys that have past success against the Bills (CEH: who also has spent time with Joe Brady). Wouldn't shock me if one of them are back to take some responsibility off Cook.

 

I definitely think Cook has a prominent role on the offense, but seems like he's a guy that may be able to be more explosive with fewer touches (similar to the Dolphins Achane)

 

Delicious brisket. Possibly some wings this weekend.

 

And note, I said current NFL. Name the current bellcow backs in the NFL. Derrick Henry? Joe Mixon? Saquon Barkley? Cook had 45 less rushing yards than Henry (not counting receiving) and ran for more than Mixon, Barkley and Pacheco.

 

This is the model of the current NFL. Derrick Henry is probably this generation's epitome of a bellcow back, probably the highest standard of an every down rusher and he might be out of the league next year. The model right now for smashmouth football is the Niners. Right now I would say that Cook isn't Singletary 2.0, he's a poor man's CMC. Not as good, but that he had a year roughly in the same stratosphere are CMC is pretty darn good, and that we can work on a niche for that in our schemes.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I like Cook a lot. 

He had 1500 yards from scrimmage and six touchdowns. That's a VERY good running back season in the 2024 NFL!

 

That's a Pro Bowl RB in his year 2!

 

And will be playing for relative peanuts for two more seasons!

 

Agree on keeping Ty Johnson around, a perfect RB3 "spell" guy to complement Cook's role. On a decent gain, you don't have to really change what play you'd call next if Cook should need to come out for a blow.

 

Cook's drops are an easier fix, as they are mostly concentration issues when he is wide open. I do think he has good, natural hands otherwise. Different from a guy like Dawson Knox and his seemingly 33% drop rate, which I believe boils down to just not having very good hands. Fights the ball too much. Not a natural set of mitts.

Edited February 8 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Logic]

Just now, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

That's a Pro Bowl RB in his year 2!

 

And will be playing for relative peanuts for two more seasons!

 

Agree on keeping Ty Johnson around, a perfect RB3 "spell" guy to complement Cook's role. On a decent gain, you don't have to really change what play you'd call next if Cook should need to come out for a blow.

 

Cook's drops are an easier fix, as they are mostly concentration issues when he is wide open. I do think he has good, natural hands otherwise. Different from a guy like Dawson Knox and his seemingly 33% drop rate, which I believe boils down to just not having very good hands. Fights the ball too much. not a natural set of mitts.

Agreed on not being concerned about Cook in the passing game moving forward. In fact, I'd like to seem get even MORE involved in the passing game.

Once Joe Brady came aboard, we started to see more wheel routes and isolation matchups on linebackers where Cook went deep. We also saw him more meaningfully and consistently be targeted on swing routes.

I think there's actually a lot of meat left on the bone with regard to usage of Cook in the passing game. I think he can be even MORE productive there with a full offseason of Brady installing his own offense. It is my hope that Cook continues to be heavily involved in the offensive gameplan as a pass catching target.

[LABILLBACKER]

25 minutes ago, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

That's a Pro Bowl RB in his year 2!

 

And will be playing for relative peanuts for two more seasons!

 

Agree on keeping Ty Johnson around, a perfect RB3 "spell" guy to complement Cook's role. On a decent gain, you don't have to really change what play you'd call next if Cook should need to come out for a blow.

 

Cook's drops are an easier fix, as they are mostly concentration issues when he is wide open. I do think he has good, natural hands otherwise. Different from a guy like Dawson Knox and his seemingly 33% drop rate, which I believe boils down to just not having very good hands. Fights the ball too much. not a natural set of mitts.

I hate to break this to fans but Cook's drop problems are NOT easily fixable. He drops easy passes because he doesn't focus. This isn't a technique or physicality issue.  Rolling in a jugs will not solve this.  Obviously we're all rooting for him to improve the fumbles (4) and dropped tds (4). But it's only happening with a sense of mental focus.

[JaCrispy]

14 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

How you guys feeling on James Cook as a number 1 back? With Brady taking over full time James Cook should see an increase workload. Fumbles and drops have been an issue with him though. I still think he’s too small to be an every down back. Personally I would like to see use him like Detroit uses Gibbs and find a quality #2. I like Ty Johnson but could we find better?

Probably not, at the same price

[hondo in seattle]

Before the season, I thought of Cook as a third-down back who would be a good safety valve out of the backfield.

 

He's a better runner than I thought.  Good vision and burst.  Effective up the middle which I doubted.

 

But he's a worse receiver than I thought.  The drops were killer.  

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

He's good but not great. I think his stats this year were mostly a result of being healthy and playing on a good offense. 

 

1) Drops. 4 easy TDs dropped this season

 

2) Fumbles

 

3) Unwillingly to lower his head for extra yards. He had a few plays this year where he made a 'business decision' to quit on plays rather than try to plow ahead for a 1st. Not a good look when your teams QB is looking for more contact than your RB1 

 

Mildly disappointing for a 2nd rd RB pick, but he's fine for now. No need to look for an upgrade until his rookie contract is up

[PayDaBill$]

15 hours ago, Westside said:

He seems to disappear in games. I would love to see more consistent next year.

A lot of factors can attribute to this beyond his control.  Defenses adjust, play calling, strength of opponent run etc…

 

Overall he was pretty productive.

[technobot]

33 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I hate to break this to fans but Cook's drop problems are NOT easily fixable. He drops easy passes because he doesn't focus. This isn't a technique or physicality issue.  Rolling in a jugs will not solve this.  Obviously we're all rooting for him to improve the fumbles (4) and dropped tds (4). But it's only happening with a sense of mental focus.

 

This worries me as well. From my unscientific perspective I'm guessing that he loses concentration, and perhaps this was one of the things McDermott was punishing him for earlier in the year. Also wondering if it's something that comes up in practice, which would feed McD's annoyance (intense dude, after all).

 

If he fixes that, loving most of what else was shown, he's got the burst, he can rack up big yards even after some contact, and he's certainly a threat in the passing game. But the inexplicable layup-type drops were "a thing" by season's end.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I hate to break this to fans but Cook's drop problems are NOT easily fixable. He drops easy passes because he doesn't focus. This isn't a technique or physicality issue.  Rolling in a jugs will not solve this.  Obviously we're all rooting for him to improve the fumbles (4) and dropped tds (4). But it's only happening with a sense of mental focus.

 

We can agree to disagree on how easy it is to fix his 'wide open' pass drops. I'd rather have a guy who has soft hands and 'needs to focus' over a guy who isn't a good hand catcher of the ball to begin with.

 

I think his fumbles have mostly been from not protecting the ball well enough at the time of the tackle, and/or a second defender coming in with the punch-out while he gets wrapped up. That's as great a play by the well-coached defender as it is a bad play by the 'unfocused' ball carrier. I do think this can also be improved with coaching/experience over a length of time!

 

Players get better or worse, nothing is absolute!

[The Firebaugh Kid]

55 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Before the season, I thought of Cook as a third-down back who would be a good safety valve out of the backfield.

 

He's a better runner than I thought.  Good vision and burst.  Effective up the middle which I doubted.

 

But he's a worse receiver than I thought.  The drops were killer.  

 

 

That's the reason I think he needs more targets, to help get him into a rhythm. Plus he's FANTASTIC after the catch. 

[TheBrownBear]

What about resigning Damien Harris on the cheap or was his injury potentially career ending?  I still think he'd provide a nice complement to Cook, assuming he's healthy.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, phypon said:

I'd prefer a bruising back as the number 1 and a back like cook as the number 2.

 

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

[phypon]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

No.  The "people" in this camp don't think he meets YOUR stylistic preferences.  I plainly said that I don't think Cook is anything special.  He's not a TT or a CMC type back.  To think otherwise is foolish.  I never said he is a bad back.  I like having him as our back right now.  He's doing pretty well.  I'm fine with exploring other options at the RB position and, at this point from what I've seen, I would not re-sign him to a big contract once he hits FA.

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

It the Bills case, Josh Allen is RB 1 in the red zone.   The desire for a bruising style runner to compliment and take the burden off of Allen is more important to the Bills, than anything the RBs do between the 20's.  

The best stat in sports is baseball's WAR.  WAR does not work quite as easily in the NFL.  My personal OPINION is that there are at least 20 other backs in the NFL that would have allowed the Bills to finish 11-5, and lose in the divisional round of the playoffs.  And that there are less than five backs, who individually would have moved the dial forward in terms of wins or loses for the Bills.  As mentioned Cook is fine.  He is a solid RB on a rookie salary. Perfect for the Bills needs.  So was Singletary. And Cook will be likely be gone when he is no longer on a rookie contract, to be replaced by the next guy. 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, phypon said:

would not re-sign him to a big contract once he hits FA

 

There are extremely few RBs who should be signed to "big" contracts.  That's not particularly relevant to the question of whether Cook is an above-average RB1.  I think the statistics (and eye test) clearly show that he is.

 

[TheBrownBear]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. His yards after contact were the same as Derrick Henry's this year. He is absolutely fine between the tackles. 

You seem to be getting a lot of pushback on this, but I agree with you.  His tackle breaking and YAC in 2023 were probably his biggest areas of improvement over his rookie year.  I just watched all of his plays from three different games (yes, one was the fantastic Dallas game) and he broke plenty of tackles and racked up a bunch of yards after contact.  He's never going to be a battering ram given his slim build, but he did a much better job this season of going downhill and at least falling forward in piles which can often lead to extra 1.5 yards on those plays.  

[BaaadThingsMan]

I love Cook. The inconsistent hands need to get better. 

 

I'd sign Derrick Henry in a heartbeat (for 1 season) if given a chance though.