NFL MVP

[Brand J]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I would have liked to see that because I'm honestly not sure who would have won MVP in that case. Lamar still would have finished with the 1 seed in this scenario so it still could have been him just based on the history of it going to a QB on the 1 seed 90% of the time. 

 

In the above scenario I sure as heck hope it would not have been a 49-1 vote for whoever won. Maybe we actually would have seen more than 1 voter think for themself. 

It’s no mystery, the media wanted someone to back for MVP for awhile, they kept throwing the names around. That 49ers/Ravens game was pivotal because it featured at the time three of the hottest MVP names - Jackson, Purdy, CMC. If the 49ers had went into Baltimore and handled them with relative ease, then proceeded to finish the rest of the regular season on a tear (as the Ravens did), it’s not hard to see how the winner would’ve been gold and red. I don’t think Lamar would’ve got a first place vote, especially if he had put on a Purdy-like performance against the 9ers throwing 5 INTs. Also don’t think it would’ve been 49-1, the Purdy and CMC votes would’ve been more dispersed, maybe 33-17 in favor of Purdy. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

7 minutes ago, finn said:

Not sure I follow. Are you wondering if these are my words? But, no, for the record, I don't think the award should be the most valuable player on a single team. What's the sense of that? 

 

Lamar was not the most valuable player in the NFL this year, nor the most talented, nor the most accomplished. 

 

Agreed. There is the old saying if you have two MVP candidates on the same team then neither can win it. People were using that argument against Purdy and CMC. And Tua and Hill throughout earlier parts of the season. Well, the same ought to be true for a QB with (nice numbers but not elite) supported by a defense that ranks #1 in three major statistical categories. 

Edited February 10 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[DapperCam]

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where you locked these sports media voters in a room and had them watch all of the games of the top 10 MVP candidates, and then had them vote without being able to talk with each other, there is no way that the vote would be nearly unanimous. I don’t even think Jackson would win.

 

I think this year especially they all just kind of voted for who everybody else was voting for. And Lamar benefitted greatly by being the last name that “everybody was voting for”.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, finn said:

Not sure I follow. Are you wondering if these are my words? But, no, for the record, I don't think the award should be the most valuable player on a single team. What's the sense of that? 

 

Lamar was not the most valuable player in the NFL this year, nor the most talented, nor the most accomplished. 

You think the best player on the best team doesn’t have a case for being the most valuable player in the league just by virtue of being the best player on the best team?

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where you locked these sports media voters in a room and had them watch all of the games of the top 10 MVP candidates, and then had them vote without being able to talk with each other, there is no way that the vote would be nearly unanimous. I don’t even think Jackson would win.

 

I think this year especially they all just kind of voted for who everybody else was voting for. And Lamar benefitted greatly by being the last name that “everybody was voting for”.

The narratives play a part in the MVP race. 
 

This year, strangely, there was a gauntlet where all the MVP candidates played each other. The 9ers killed the Eagles, which ended Jalen Hurts. The Ravens destroyed the 9ers and the Dolphins. The Cowboys lost to the Bills and Dolphins. 
 

So it ultimately left the Ravens the last one standing. Imo, Josh had a case for top 3 MVP and probably would’ve won if he had put up some really good numbers during our winning streak. I even bet on it. Unfortunately, he maintained his turnover per game pace and turned some cruise control games into dog fights, and imo, didn’t deserve it. 

Edited February 10 by FireChans

[finn]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You think the best player on the best team doesn’t have a case for being the most valuable player in the league just by virtue of being the best player on the best team?

Well, that status will assert itself anyway, right? If he's the best player on the best team, he'll very likely be a candidate for league MVP. There's no need to give him extra credit for being that person, or, worse, confining the award (in practice) to that person. No one else qualifies? Really? 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, finn said:

Well, that status will assert itself anyway, right? If he's the best player on the best team, he'll very likely be a candidate for league MVP. There's no need to give him extra credit for being that person, or, worse, confining the award (in practice) to that person. No one else qualifies? Really? 

Like I said earlier, great offense + 1 seed is pretty much the formula for MVP. Has been for about 15 years. 
 

Other folks qualify and get votes. They did this year. They just didn’t win.

[folz]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:10 PM, Brand J said:

Lamar didn’t play against the Steelers in the final regular season game, so he was 6-2. But check this out…
 

Ravens 25 Texans 9

Ravens 28 Browns 3

Ravens 38 Lions 6

Ravens 33 49ers 19

Ravens 56 Dolphins 19

 

Optics matter. Of their 13 regular seasons wins, 9 were by double digits. Of the eight teams in NFL history that had 9 wins by double digits or more, all had made the Super Bowl and only one of those didn’t win. 
 

The Lamar led Ravens bludgeoned teams and that’s why he’s MVP of the regular season, because he played phenomenal at times. It wasn’t because “let’s give the award to him because he’s Black.” I’m surprised so many of you agreed with that take.

 

The average number of touchdowns for the last 10 MVPs is 44 TDs in their MVP season.

 

Lamar had 29 total TDs this year. Josh had 44 TDs this year.

 

I don't care about race (it's more the bias against Josh than race being a factor for Lamar), and I understand why people voted for Lamar. But, I can also disagree with their decision.

 

Let's face it, there was no clear-cut MVP this season. Josh was doomed by his interceptions and the irrational media bias against him, even though the TDs sooooo outweigh the interceptions.

 

And with only 29 TDs on the year, it shows that the Baltimore's defense was more of the MVP than Lamar was. The MVP is an individual award, not a team award.

 

Josh had 628 yards more passing than Lamar, while Lamar had 287 more rushing yards than Josh. So, Josh still had 341 more yards from scrimmage than Lamar and 15 more touchdowns. Their team's were only 2 games apart in the final standings, and Josh had a slightly better record against playoff teams than Lamar.

 

As far as total turnovers, Lamar had 13 and Josh had 22. But, there is always an element of luck to turnovers. For instance, Lamar fumbled 11 times...but only lost 6. Plus, how many near picks did he have this year that didn't get caught or whatever, where it seemed every freak batted-ball for Josh this year, some defender made an incredible play to make the INT.

 

Still, we are talking about a 9-turnover difference between the two. Even if every one of Josh's turnovers turned into a TD for the other team (which they didn't, not by a long shot), that would equate to 63 points. The difference between their TD totals is 105 points. Plus, none of Josh's turnovers occurred in the 4th quarter. He wasn't losing games due to his INTs. In fact, most games that he had an INT, he also had his team in the lead in the 4th quarter (all but the Jets game). So, again, the INTs didn't hurt the team as much as they might appear to have.

 

Lamar had three games with zero TDs and eight more games with only one TD. That's 11 games, or 69% of the season. So, for almost 70% of the season, Lamar had only one or zero TDs per game. Is that really an MVP?

 

The Ravens only scored 32 points more than the Bills this season. Across 17 games that equates to 1.8 points more per game (not a huge difference---if you are trying to use point totals for games as a plus for Lamar). 

 

Lamar accounted for 42.9% of his team's points. Josh accounted for 68.3% of his team's points.

 

As I said, there was no clear-cut MVP choice this year, but still, imo, Lamar was the wrong choice.

 

 

 

 

[zow2]

As already said, it's going to be the QB from a #1 seed team and best record unless other factors (like QB injury) makes it impossible to vote for that QB.

 

Also, the turnovers,  especially the nationally televised ones.  It started in Game 1 vs the Jets and the narrative never changed.  Exciting QB, Superman at times...but a turnover machine.  That is pinned to Allen until he cuts them in half or wins a SB.  

 

They treat Allen as if he's Jameis Winston (who had over 5,000 yards passing and 33 TDs in 2019).  But the INTs overshadowed him.

 

 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, folz said:

 

The average number of touchdowns for the last 10 MVPs is 44 TDs in their MVP season.

 

Lamar had 29 total TDs this year. Josh had 44 TDs this year.

 

I don't care about race (it's more the bias against Josh than race being a factor for Lamar), and I understand why people voted for Lamar. But, I can also disagree with their decision.

 

Let's face it, there was no clear-cut MVP this season. Josh was doomed by his interceptions and the irrational media bias against him, even though the TDs sooooo outweigh the interceptions.

 

And with only 29 TDs on the year, it shows that the Baltimore's defense was more of the MVP than Lamar was. The MVP is an individual award, not a team award.

 

Josh had 628 yards more passing than Lamar, while Lamar had 287 more rushing yards than Josh. So, Josh still had 341 more yards from scrimmage than Lamar and 15 more touchdowns. Their team's were only 2 games apart in the final standings, and Josh had a slightly better record against playoff teams than Lamar.

 

As far as total turnovers, Lamar had 13 and Josh had 22. But, there is always an element of luck to turnovers. For instance, Lamar fumbled 11 times...but only lost 6. Plus, how many near picks did he have this year that didn't get caught or whatever, where it seemed every freak batted-ball for Josh this year, some defender made an incredible play to make the INT.

 

Still, we are talking about a 9-turnover difference between the two. Even if every one of Josh's turnovers turned into a TD for the other team (which they didn't, not by a long shot), that would equate to 63 points. The difference between their TD totals is 105 points. Plus, none of Josh's turnovers occurred in the 4th quarter. He wasn't losing games due to his INTs. In fact, most games that he had an INT, he also had his team in the lead in the 4th quarter (all but the Jets game). So, again, the INTs didn't hurt the team as much as they might appear to have.

 

Lamar had three games with zero TDs and eight more games with only one TD. That's 11 games, or 69% of the season. So, for almost 70% of the season, Lamar had only one or zero TDs per game. Is that really an MVP?

 

The Ravens only scored 32 points more than the Bills this season. Across 17 games that equates to 1.8 points more per game (not a huge difference---if you are trying to use point totals for games as a plus for Lamar). 

 

Lamar accounted for 42.9% of his team's points. Josh accounted for 68.3% of his team's points.

 

As I said, there was no clear-cut MVP choice this year, but still, imo, Lamar was the wrong choice.

 

 

 

 

Lamar also had 2 safeties and pick 6 in the 4th quarter.  You can count that in for negative plays that never seem to highlighted.  Josh didn’t throw a pick 6 this year. I’d take numerous ints over one pick six. Jmo though. Especially if it came in the 4th quarter of a tight game. 

Edited February 10 by BananaB

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The Purdy MVP case is laughable to me. Alot of QBs could put up a 115 QBR playing Shanahan's system.Context matters and to me that's part of the analysis. Lazy analysis to give it because of Stats or total credit for team success in a team game (your teammates and coaches matter.

[Orlando Buffalo]

56 minutes ago, zow2 said:

As already said, it's going to be the QB from a #1 seed team and best record unless other factors (like QB injury) makes it impossible to vote for that QB.

 

Also, the turnovers,  especially the nationally televised ones.  It started in Game 1 vs the Jets and the narrative never changed.  Exciting QB, Superman at times...but a turnover machine.  That is pinned to Allen until he cuts them in half or wins a SB.  

 

They treat Allen as if he's Jameis Winston (who had over 5,000 yards passing and 33 TDs in 2019).  But the INTs overshadowed him.

 

 

The Turnovers in two of the most public games this year costing us the two games- Jets and Bengals- is why he lost. Most voters don't watch every game of each "candidate" or even close to all and therefore your biggest televised games will matter. It is almost as bad as the guys picking the college final 4 only really watching a few games of each team.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said:

The Turnovers in two of the most public games this year costing us the two games- Jets and Bengals- is why he lost. Most voters don't watch every game of each "candidate" or even close to all and therefore your biggest televised games will matter. It is almost as bad as the guys picking the college final 4 only really watching a few games of each team.

Plus the Broncos.  I didn't have a problem with Allen not winning it.  I had a problem with Lamar winning it.  If there's some unwritten bylaw that it has to go to a player on a team that gets the one seed in the conference than it should've went to Christian McCaffrey this year (who got the most second place votes ahead of Purdy).

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Allen's four passing touchdowns vs Miami week 4 extended his NFL record 12-game streak with multiple passing touchdowns against a single opponent.

 

He also becomes the second player in NFL history with 300+ passing yards, 4+ passing TDs, 1+ rushing TDs & a perfect passer rating in a single game. 

 

In week 6, Josh Allen throws his 150th and 151st career touchdown passes, taking just 82 career games to do so, the fifth-fastest pace in NFL history

 

Week 8, Josh Allen surpasses Steve Young (43) for second place on the NFL's all-time list for rushing touchdowns by a quarterback, (44) trailing only Cam Newton (75).

 

Week 10, Josh Allen ties Jim Kelly's team record of 18th consecutive game with a TD pass.

 

Week 12, Josh Allen joins Cam Newton as the only quarterbacks in NFL history to have four seasons with 8+ rushing touchdowns.

 

Week 15, Josh Allen records 10th game this season with 1+ passing and 1+ rushing TD, setting an NFL record.

 

Week 16, QB Josh Allen becomes the first player in NFL history to record 40 total touchdowns in four consecutive seasons.

 

Week 18, Josh Allen sets NFL record with 9th career game of passing for 300+ yards and rushing for 50+ yards.

 

Allen becomes the only player in NFL history with statline of: 350+ pass yards, 65+ rush yards and 75%+ completion rate in a single game.

 

Allen finishes the season leading the NFL in total TDs (44) and total yards (4,830).

 

Any more questions?

Allen is twice the QB Lamar is and that’s an absolute fact. Watch the tape or just look at the stat lines. He also doesn’t go one & done in the playoffs every year. The MVP award is a joke. I hate to say it, but if Lamar put up Allen’s numbers and Allen put up Lamar’s numbers plus winning the MVP, the media/fans would be livid. 

Edited February 10 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Einstein]

Tyrod was SO close! Just a few hundred yards and 4 TD’s.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

The Turnovers in two of the most public games this year costing us the two games- Jets and Bengals- is why he lost. Most voters don't watch every game of each "candidate" or even close to all and therefore your biggest televised games will matter. It is almost as bad as the guys picking the college final 4 only really watching a few games of each team.

What are you talking about?  Allen had ONE turnover against Cincinnati while scoring 2 TD's.  He also had over 300 total yards of offense.  Allen was not the reason the Bills lost to the Bengal's, the Defense was. BTW he other TO was the Kincaid fumble at the Bengal's 10 yard line which deprived the Bills of a 1st & goal.

 

 

 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

8 hours ago, folz said:

 

The average number of touchdowns for the last 10 MVPs is 44 TDs in their MVP season.

 

Lamar had 29 total TDs this year. Josh had 44 TDs this year.

 

I don't care about race (it's more the bias against Josh than race being a factor for Lamar), and I understand why people voted for Lamar. But, I can also disagree with their decision.

 

Let's face it, there was no clear-cut MVP this season. Josh was doomed by his interceptions and the irrational media bias against him, even though the TDs sooooo outweigh the interceptions.

 

And with only 29 TDs on the year, it shows that the Baltimore's defense was more of the MVP than Lamar was. The MVP is an individual award, not a team award.

 

Josh had 628 yards more passing than Lamar, while Lamar had 287 more rushing yards than Josh. So, Josh still had 341 more yards from scrimmage than Lamar and 15 more touchdowns. Their team's were only 2 games apart in the final standings, and Josh had a slightly better record against playoff teams than Lamar.

 

As far as total turnovers, Lamar had 13 and Josh had 22. But, there is always an element of luck to turnovers. For instance, Lamar fumbled 11 times...but only lost 6. Plus, how many near picks did he have this year that didn't get caught or whatever, where it seemed every freak batted-ball for Josh this year, some defender made an incredible play to make the INT.

 

Still, we are talking about a 9-turnover difference between the two. Even if every one of Josh's turnovers turned into a TD for the other team (which they didn't, not by a long shot), that would equate to 63 points. The difference between their TD totals is 105 points. Plus, none of Josh's turnovers occurred in the 4th quarter. He wasn't losing games due to his INTs. In fact, most games that he had an INT, he also had his team in the lead in the 4th quarter (all but the Jets game). So, again, the INTs didn't hurt the team as much as they might appear to have.

 

Lamar had three games with zero TDs and eight more games with only one TD. That's 11 games, or 69% of the season. So, for almost 70% of the season, Lamar had only one or zero TDs per game. Is that really an MVP?

 

The Ravens only scored 32 points more than the Bills this season. Across 17 games that equates to 1.8 points more per game (not a huge difference---if you are trying to use point totals for games as a plus for Lamar). 

 

Lamar accounted for 42.9% of his team's points. Josh accounted for 68.3% of his team's points.

 

As I said, there was no clear-cut MVP choice this year, but still, imo, Lamar was the wrong choice.

 

 

 

 

 

This was an awesome breakdown.  In addition, Josh had the least amount of sacks for starting QBs who were essentially healthy all year.  Josh was sacked 24 times to Lamar's 37. 

Edited February 11 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[FireChans]

57 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Tyrod was SO close! Just a few hundred yards and 4 TD’s.

He had almost a thousand yards less, which for Tygod meant about 6 games worth. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

37 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What are you talking about?  Allen had ONE turnover against Cincinnati while scoring 2 TD's.  He also had over 300 total yards of offense.  Allen was not the reason the Bills lost to the Bengal's, the Defense was. BTW he other TO was the Kincaid fumble at the Bengal's 10 yard line which deprived the Bills of a 1st & goal.

 

 

 

 

I had the Bengals game flipped with the Broncos game in my head, Doc Brown showed me the error of the my ways along with you. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

He had almost a thousand yards less, which for Tygod meant about 6 games worth. 

 

Tyrod played 3 less games.

 

Edit: 2 less, since Lamar sat the last game of 2023.

Edited February 11 by Einstein

[Shortchaz]

He’s a heck of a running back.