NFL MVP

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

He broke the single season QB rushing TDs record, but Jalen Hurts actually did as well, so they are tied for that (Allen’s we’re more impressive IMO due to less tush push sneaks).

 

I want to say he broke the record for most games with a passing TD and rushing TD.

 

That’s just off the top of my head. There were some career ones broken too (most X in a player’s first N years).

 

And most consecutive seasons with 40+ TD's

[T.E.]

6 hours ago, Brand J said:

To believe that Lamar’s skin color contributed to why he won the award, is it your assertion that if Josh Allen had the same season as Lamar (lower TDs/lower turnovers/more dominant wins) that he wouldn’t have won it because he’s white? That Swagu, Ryan Clark, and the other “loud group of ppl in the media (implied hint: Black folks)” wouldn’t have talked him up because he’s not a Black guy? And therefore wouldn’t have won the award? Is that it? 

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here, but if their races were reversed, Allen would 100% be the NFL MVP right now.

 

We live in a social climate where this plays a factor - if you're white and vote for a white player, you're going to face accusations of racism from idiots.

 

Look at the NBA MVP race last year. Look at how Stephen A. Smith reacted to Allen getting a single 1st place vote.

Edited February 9 by Patrick Fitzryan

[Mr. WEO]

It's hard to imagine this guy has been the MVP of the league twice in 5 years.  he failed to finish 2 of those seasons and was 2-3 in playoffs the other 3--getting exposed roughly vs KC.  Other than the Houston game this year, his playoff performances have been below mediocre

[SaulGoodman]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

🙄 Mahomes played great-  the injury certainly didn’t affect him very much.  

 

yeah the Dee ford Offside and the dropped int were tough.  Bad luck/poor execution.  Players not getting it done.   The last time you’ve had any key injuries you got blown out in the SB due to those injuries. 
 

if you’re really trying to compare the KC bad luck/injuries to the bills bad luck/injuries you’re in the wrong forum.  There is no comparison.  

What is your point?  That the entire defense was their most valuable PLAYER? 

 

Mahomes didn't have much mobility during that playoff run and mobility is a huge part of his game. They were also down 4 of their top 5 WRs in the AFCC, along with Sneed and Gay. I don't know how you can say these injuries didn't matter. 

 

When have the Bills had a ton of significant injuries before this season? Let's not forget that even with those injuries, they were favored to beat KC. And the vast majority of your fans expected to not only win that game, but to have a good shot at winning the SB. 

 

If you want to think that Mahomes is a few plays from 6 straight SBs due to luck, so be it, I guess. 

Edited February 9 by SaulGoodman

[Herc11]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

🙄 Mahomes played great-  the injury certainly didn’t affect him very much.  

 

yeah the Dee ford Offside and the dropped int were tough.  Bad luck/poor execution.  Players not getting it done.   The last time you’ve had any key injuries you got blown out in the SB due to those injuries. 
 

if you’re really trying to compare the KC bad luck/injuries to the bills bad luck/injuries you’re in the wrong forum.  There is no comparison.  

What is your point?  That the entire defense was their most valuable PLAYER? 

My point was that Lamar wasn't even the MVP on his own team.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

If you want to think that Mahomes is a few plays from 6 straight SBs due to luck, so be it, I guess. 

 

I don't think that was his argument at all. It isn't that Mahomes's success has been luck it is that the Bills have had particularly bad luck on the injury front the past few years with some of their best players. 

 

In 2021 they lost Tre White after 11 games - a 2nd team all pro a year before and two years removed from a first team all pro.

 

In 2022 they lost Von Miller after 11 games - a 3 time first team all pro and 4 time second team all pro. 

 

In 2023 they lost Tre White (as mentioned above former all pro) in game 4 and Matt Milano - a first team all pro the season prior - in game 5. 

 

I think it is probably fair to say in respect of injuries to their best players on defense the Bills have had particularly bad luck the last 3 years both with the injuries and the severity of them. 

 

I am not saying without those injuries we definitely would have won a Superbowl over the past 3 season. Not saying that at all. But I can make a strong case that at the time those players got injured (possible exception Tre this year) they were the best player on the defense. It is equivalent to the Chiefs losing Chris Jones for the stretch run 3 years in a row. So it isn't that the Chiefs are lucky, it is that the Bills have been particularly unlucky with those key injuries of a serious nature to difference making players.

[zow2]

I’m still waiting for the case to be made that Lamar is actually the MVP? Other than Stephen A and others in media shoving it down our throats.  I guess the fact they had 13 wins and the 1 seed is the main reason.

 

I can’t imagine if Lamar had Allen’s 2023 stats and Did Not win it, there would be national outrage.

[TedWilliamsFrozenHead]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:51 AM, QCity said:

It's before and it's Lamar.

Politics.

Lamar, is a dope.

[DapperCam]

3 hours ago, Commish said:

Has this been posted yet? Steven A.'s hot take is incredibly ill informed and reckless.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/02/09/stephen-a-smith-blisters-lone-voter-who-snubbed-lamar-jackson-nfl-mvp#:~:text=Yet he was highly critical,compromises everything%2C” Smith continued.

I would be willing to bet Stephen A. Smith barely watches actual full football games.

[Turk71]

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

It's hard to imagine this guy has been the MVP of the league twice in 5 years.  he failed to finish 2 of those seasons and was 2-3 in playoffs the other 3--getting exposed roughly vs KC.  Other than the Houston game this year, his playoff performances have been below mediocre

He also leads the league in 4th qtr turnovers in 1 score games over the last three seasons. (As of ~week 8 last season when the article was written)

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Mahomes didn't have much mobility during that playoff run and mobility is a huge part of his game. They were also down 4 of their top 5 WRs in the AFCC, along with Sneed and Gay. I don't know how you can say these injuries didn't matter. 

 

When have the Bills had a ton of significant injuries before this season? Let's not forget that even with those injuries, they were favored to beat KC. And the vast majority of your fans expected to not only win that game, but to have a good shot at winning the SB. 

 

If you want to think that Mahomes is a few plays from 6 straight SBs due to luck, so be it, I guess. 

Talk about exaggerating.  Sheeeesh

 

mahomes was so hurt that he ran for 44 yards on 6 carries.  He was so limited that he wasn’t sacked once vs the team that led the league in sacks (kudos to you OL, they played great)

 

which 4 or your top 5 WRs were you missing?

mvs 72% snap count

moore 56%
Juju 45%
hardman 22%
toney 6%

 

we were missing multiple all pros and our highest paid defensive players for entire seasons  Our big investment missed entire games.  Entire seasons.  Had injuries that affected players for multiple seasons.  
 

if love to see how you guys would’ve faired without Chris Jones.  Von miller was coming off an incredible run with the rams and made several HUGE plays vs you guys in 2022 and single handedly ended your last 3 drives. He got hurt a month later and has been gone ever since.  Take Chris jones away…..and your seasons ended similarly.

 

you guys were definitely a few plays short of making 6 straight Super Bowls. I don’t like KC but I understand football and admire the greatness of the big 3, Reid, Spags and Mahomes.  I think they’ll be fine if Kelce retires and the big 3 return.  
 

I’m friends with a handful of chiefs fans.  Each of them agree that they’ve been super lucky injury wise.  You disagree and can’t admit that you’ve been lucky with regards to injury  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Go ahead.  What single season records did Josh break this year? 

 

Allen's four passing touchdowns vs Miami week 4 extended his NFL record 12-game streak with multiple passing touchdowns against a single opponent.

 

He also becomes the second player in NFL history with 300+ passing yards, 4+ passing TDs, 1+ rushing TDs & a perfect passer rating in a single game. 

 

In week 6, Josh Allen throws his 150th and 151st career touchdown passes, taking just 82 career games to do so, the fifth-fastest pace in NFL history

 

Week 8, Josh Allen surpasses Steve Young (43) for second place on the NFL's all-time list for rushing touchdowns by a quarterback, (44) trailing only Cam Newton (75).

 

Week 10, Josh Allen ties Jim Kelly's team record of 18th consecutive game with a TD pass.

 

Week 12, Josh Allen joins Cam Newton as the only quarterbacks in NFL history to have four seasons with 8+ rushing touchdowns.

 

Week 15, Josh Allen records 10th game this season with 1+ passing and 1+ rushing TD, setting an NFL record.

 

Week 16, QB Josh Allen becomes the first player in NFL history to record 40 total touchdowns in four consecutive seasons.

 

Week 18, Josh Allen sets NFL record with 9th career game of passing for 300+ yards and rushing for 50+ yards.

 

Allen becomes the only player in NFL history with statline of: 350+ pass yards, 65+ rush yards and 75%+ completion rate in a single game.

 

Allen finishes the season leading the NFL in total TDs (44) and total yards (4,830).

 

Any more questions?

[BananaB]

35 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Allen's four passing touchdowns vs Miami week 4 extended his NFL record 12-game streak with multiple passing touchdowns against a single opponent.

 

He also becomes the second player in NFL history with 300+ passing yards, 4+ passing TDs, 1+ rushing TDs & a perfect passer rating in a single game. 

 

In week 6, Josh Allen throws his 150th and 151st career touchdown passes, taking just 82 career games to do so, the fifth-fastest pace in NFL history

 

Week 8, Josh Allen surpasses Steve Young (43) for second place on the NFL's all-time list for rushing touchdowns by a quarterback, (44) trailing only Cam Newton (75).

 

Week 10, Josh Allen ties Jim Kelly's team record of 18th consecutive game with a TD pass.

 

Week 12, Josh Allen joins Cam Newton as the only quarterbacks in NFL history to have four seasons with 8+ rushing touchdowns.

 

Week 15, Josh Allen records 10th game this season with 1+ passing and 1+ rushing TD, setting an NFL record.

 

Week 16, QB Josh Allen becomes the first player in NFL history to record 40 total touchdowns in four consecutive seasons.

 

Week 18, Josh Allen sets NFL record with 9th career game of passing for 300+ yards and rushing for 50+ yards.

 

Allen becomes the only player in NFL history with statline of: 350+ pass yards, 65+ rush yards and 75%+ completion rate in a single game.

 

Allen finishes the season leading the NFL in total TDs (44) and total yards (4,830).

 

Any more questions?

But Lamar beat the 49ers and got 2 TDs on shorts fields when his D forced 5 INTs. 

[Neo]

We’re on a three way teeter totter whenever we debate MVP.  One poster talks individual player.  The next counters with supporting cast.  A third brings up championships.  All three mix in the other two criteria while championing his number one.

 

Give me a mystery 52 man roster and coaching staff absent one player.  I’ll take Mahomes over Allen looking at six years.  I’ll take Allen this last year over Lamar.

 

 

[Brand J]

6 hours ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here, but if their races were reversed, Allen would 100% be the NFL MVP right now.

 

We live in a social climate where this plays a factor - if you're white and vote for a white player, you're going to face accusations of racism from idiots.

 

Look at the NBA MVP race last year. Look at how Stephen A. Smith reacted to Allen getting a single 1st place vote.

If Allen was Black and had the same turnover filled seasons, you know, leading the league every year since 2018, there’d be far more attacks on his intelligence and questions about his wonderlic score. In fact, fans across the league already think that “white Josh” is a meat head. I was browsing the Steelers boards when we played them and one commented that “you might have to draw up plays with a crayon for him, but man is he fun to watch.” There’s no deeper conspiracy going on here, Lamar’s MVP is easy to understand even if it’s a bit undeserved. But continue to cling onto race being the deciding factor if it helps you sleep at night. 

[T.E.]

20 minutes ago, Brand J said:

If Allen was Black and had the same turnover filled seasons, you know, leading the league every year since 2018, there’d be far more attacks on his intelligence and questions about his wonderlic score. In fact, fans across the league already think that “white Josh” is a meat head. I was browsing the Steelers boards when we played them and one commented that “you might have to draw up plays with a crayon for him, but man is he fun to watch.” There’s no deeper conspiracy going on here, Lamar’s MVP is easy to understand even if it’s a bit undeserved. But continue to cling onto race being the deciding factor if it helps you sleep at night. 

Allen got a 37 on the Wonderlic. Jackson got a 13. That's a sizable difference in IQ. Kelly got like a 15 for reference.

[Neo]

I think Lamar’s MVP is easy to understand, also.  I’d choose Josh, but only by a nose this regular season.  Lamar had a great regular season, no doubt.

[Warcodered]

 

 

Interesting point that there were multiple people that didn't vote Lamar first for All Pro QB but those same people chickened out and voted for him for MVP I guess. I mean how is the MVP not the 1st team All Pro QB as well?

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Allen got a 37 on the Wonderlic. Jackson got a 13. That's a sizable difference in IQ. Kelly got like a 15 for reference.

Yes, I know Allen’s wonderlic score. My point was in reference to the “dumb” turnovers he makes year after year and seemingly doesn’t learn from. If he was Black making those same mistakes there’d be even more attacks on his intelligence. Josh himself said he felt this year was a down year for him, only Bills fans think he’s worthy of MVP. Need I remind you of the offense’s struggles and firing of an offensive coordinator?
 

You know who Ravens fans thought deserved the MVP? Lamar. You know who KC fans thought deserved MVP? Mahomes. Bills fans? Allen. And around and around we go with this debate, to the point some of you cling onto race being a deciding factor. It’s weird.

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Interesting point that there were multiple people that didn't vote Lamar first for All Pro QB but those same people chickened out and voted for him for MVP I guess. I mean how is the MVP not the 1st team All Pro QB as well?

That’s groupthink, voters scared to go against the wave of support for one player. If the playoffs were game, they might have felt differently about their vote after Lamar got undressed at home by Mahomes. 

[T.E.]

14 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Yes, I know Allen’s wonderlic score. My point was in reference to the “dumb” turnovers he makes year after year and seemingly doesn’t learn from. If he was Black making those same mistakes there’d be even more attacks on his intelligence. Josh himself said he felt this year was a down year for him, only Bills fans think he’s worthy of MVP. Need I remind you of the offense’s struggles and firing of an offensive coordinator?
 

You know who Ravens fans thought deserved the MVP? Lamar. You know who KC fans thought deserved MVP? Mahomes. Bills fans? Allen. And around and around we go with this debate, to the point some of you cling onto race being a deciding factor. It’s weird.

That’s groupthink, voters scared to go against the wave of support for one player. If the playoffs were game, they might have felt differently about their vote after Lamar got undressed at home by Mahomes. 

Do you think Lamar and Allen are held to wildly different standards by the media, yes or no?