Get excited... change is NOW with a youth wave!!!

[Doc Brown]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is not just age. It is more watching him this past year. Because I wasn't saying coming into the season Von is toast. When you combine how he looks with the fact he is about to turn 35 I think the chances of an offseason being the cure are extremely low. 

Agreed.  It was sad watching a HOF talent look like a practice squad player rushing the passer this year.  I think he's done and will likely be a liability next year.  I think Beane/McDermott believe this too but believe they're basically pot committed at this point in poker terms with his contract.  It's really hard to fold once you're in that mindset and freeing up six million post free agency/draft won't be enough to rip the band aid off and cut him.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

With respect to Greg you don't "kick $15m out of the $32m we owe into 2025." 

 

$6m of that money is in 2025 even if we cut him as a post June 1 cut NEXT year which almost everyone presumes is the plan. So really what you do is accelerate (I prefer that term to kick in these circumstances - kick to me means move out in time whereas here we would be moving money forward) an additional $9m onto the 2025 cap which would otherwise (with a post 1 June next year cut) be on the cap in 2026. 

 

Again my point here is that 32m is 32m whichever way round you go. You can't get out of a penny of that money by cutting him now or cutting him later. This year's 17m is guaranteed and the 15m after that is long since paid in cash terms. So do you want to spend ANOTHER $6.7m on Von or not? Personally I think he is done, so no.

 

With all due respect, I find it extremely hard to believe that everyone else who has looked at this situation, people who have made a career of it - are wrong and you're just smarter than everyone else.

If it were really as simple as the only difference between keeping him and letting him go is we save 6.7m and money we'll have to pay in 2026 will be paid in 2025 instead, you'd see almost everyone say you cut him.

 

But everyone from Greg, to Spotrac, OverTheCap, Joe Buscaglia, Sal Capaccio agree that it will cost us extra cap space somewhere and that the time do it is next year instead.

 

If there were really no difference, it wouldn't have been quoted as a 6 year deal that's actually a 3 year deal. They wouldn't all be unequivocally saying that the Out Year is 2025.

Edited February 8 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

With all due respect, I find it extremely hard to believe that everyone else who has looked at this situation, people who have made a career of it - are wrong and you're just smarter than everyone else.

If it were really as simple as the only difference between keeping him and letting him go is we save 6.7m and money we'll have to pay in 2026 will be paid in 2025 instead, you'd see almost everyone say you cut him.

 

But everyone from Greg, to Spotrac, OverTheCap, Joe Buscaglia, Sal Capaccio agree that it will cost us extra cap space somewhere and that the time do it is next year instead.

 

If there were really no difference, it wouldn't have been quoted as a 6 year deal that's actually a 3 year deal. They wouldn't all be unequivocally saying that the Out Year is 2025.

 

It really is that simple. Spotrac and OverTheCap both agree. The numbers are clear as day on there. 

 

The reason they are all saying the out year is 2025 is because in 2025 you can cut him and not leave a single year's dad cap hit above $10m. Which is right that is what you would normally consider the out point. But that is before you factor in his total no show performance wise in 2024. 

[transplantbillsfan]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is not just age. It is more watching him this past year. Because I wasn't saying coming into the season Von is toast. When you combine how he looks with the fact he is about to turn 35 I think the chances of an offseason being the cure are extremely low. 

 

See Tre White coming back from his 2021 injury in 2022.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See Tre White coming back from his 2021 injury in 2022.

 

Yea Tre wasn't close to his best. But he could move around, he wasn't a total liability on the field. That is the distinction. Von was replacement player level.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Tre wasn't close to his best. But he could move around, he wasn't a total liability on the field. That is the distinction. Von was replacement player level.

 

Tre was pretty bad when he came back.  He was also eased back into the lineup with several weeks after Von was this year.  You hear athletes time and time again say that ACL tears really take more than a year's worth of recovery for them to feel like themselves again.  We started to see flashes of the old Von in his last 2 games.

 

I've said my piece.  You've said yours while hijacking a thread that was supposed to be about getting excited about this team moving forward.  Maybe you should start a separate thread about how you think Von should be cut because he's shot.  I'm sure that thread will get plenty of dialogue.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Tre was pretty bad when he came back.  He was also eased back into the lineup with several weeks after Von was this year.  You hear athletes time and time again say that ACL tears really take more than a year's worth of recovery for them to feel like themselves again.  We started to see flashes of the old Von in his last 2 games.

 

I've said my piece.  You've said yours while hijacking a thread that was supposed to be about getting excited about this team moving forward.  Maybe you should start a separate thread about how you think Von should be cut because he's shot.  I'm sure that thread will get plenty of dialogue.

 

I agreed with your initial post. All I have done since is respond to people who have taken umbridge with my view on Von.

[Mr. WEO]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:26 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

I'm gonna be honest... it took me some time to get over our season.

 

I'm good now.

 

Now I'm excited not just for next season, but our future.

 

First of all, Buffalo has the 2nd youngest OC/DC combo in the NFL. Players advocate for these guys who have plenty of juice, so let em shake us all season long! 

 

Second, and most important, a lot of people are worried about our CAP while ignoring the 10 draft picks plus 9 future reserves we have in the waiting. Combine those with young stars already on the team like Bernard, Kincaid, Shakir, Brown, Benford & Rousseau and this team is about to get a lot younger as guys like Hyde, Poyer, Miller and Diggs exit in the next 2 or 3 years.

 

To me, the future looks bright. Our most important player is about to become the veteran presence as everyone else around him gets younger. And it's by necessity because of our CAP situation.

 

But don't be afraid of that... the Bills since McBeane have been in place have maintained one of the oldest rosters in the NFL. Always low to mid 20s, as far as ranking in the NFL... not as far as age.  That means we've always been one of the 10 oldest teams in the NFL. 

 

Now we inject youth. This offseason it's inevitably going to come in the WR corps & DL especially, but it'll shift across positions moving forward.

 

And we'll have a young OC & DC with a lot of juice to connect with them and a hypercompetitive QB with a handshake for everyone and Richard jokes to get them playing for him

 

This team is actually going through some drastic changes this offseason... it has me excited!!!

 

I don't think McD is giving his DC much juice this coming season.  And the 3rd OC and DC in 3 seasons isn't ideal.

[transplantbillsfan]

18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I don't think McD is giving his DC much juice this coming season.  And the 3rd OC and DC in 3 seasons isn't ideal.

 

Well this just belies the what happened and really paints it negatively for no good reason.

 

For OC, we lost our previous OC who was so good that he got a HC job.  Then we promoted the QB coach (who NEVER had any playcalling experience) already on the squad and let him try the position for a full year and a half before moving on from him.  Then we promoted the new QB coach who DID have previous playcalling experience to OC and we got a 9 game sample size with him.

 

So, as far as OC goes at least, it's not like we don't know part of what we're getting.

 

For DC, there was a mutual parting of ways (it seems) with our years-long DC.  Then our HC who cut his teeth as a DC decided to call plays.  Now we promoted a guy widely viewed as an up and coming young coach, not because of the lack of success this past season, but more as a way to make sure we don't lose the young guy.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well this just belies the what happened and really paints it negatively for no good reason.

 

For OC, we lost our previous OC who was so good that he got a HC job.  Then we promoted the QB coach (who NEVER had any playcalling experience) already on the squad and let him try the position for a full year and a half before moving on from him.  Then we promoted the new QB coach who DID have previous playcalling experience to OC and we got a 9 game sample size with him.

 

So, as far as OC goes at least, it's not like we don't know part of what we're getting.

 

For DC, there was a mutual parting of ways (it seems) with our years-long DC.  Then our HC who cut his teeth as a DC decided to call plays.  Now we promoted a guy widely viewed as an up and coming young coach, not because of the lack of success this past season, but more as a way to make sure we don't lose the young guy.

 

It doesn't belie what happened--it's what happened.

 

Frazier was squeezed out gently, McD took over, then he moved a subordinate with no coordinator experience up.  All in 3 seasons.  

 

Yes Daboll got another job.  Then they promoted from within--the QB coach.  Then they fired him and promoted from within--the QB coach (who was fired during his second season as an OC "playcaller" before that).

 

It's not the most "exciting" way to manage coaching staff, but is seems McD is determined to promote guys who already answered to his authority. It doesn't reek of stability

[transplantbillsfan]

44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It doesn't belie what happened--it's what happened.

 

Frazier was squeezed out gently, McD took over, then he moved a subordinate with no coordinator experience up.  All in 3 seasons.  

 

Yes Daboll got another job.  Then they promoted from within--the QB coach.  Then they fired him and promoted from within--the QB coach (who was fired during his second season as an OC "playcaller" before that).

 

It's not the most "exciting" way to manage coaching staff, but is seems McD is determined to promote guys who already answered to his authority. It doesn't reek of stability

 

We aren't on a new Coordinator because we fired one each time.

 

We fired one OC and (probably) one DC.

 

As for the whole "McDermott should go outside the organization because all he hires are YES men!!!"... Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot talked about this recently on their "Shout" podcast.  Of course Head Coaches are going to hire people who will do what he wants them to do.  That's what all Head Coaches do.  And they should.  The difference here is also that both our new OC and DC were desired by other teams for either the same position or a Head Coaching position.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We aren't on a new Coordinator because we fired one each time.

 

We fired one OC and (probably) one DC.

 

As for the whole "McDermott should go outside the organization because all he hires are YES men!!!"... Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot talked about this recently on their "Shout" podcast.  Of course Head Coaches are going to hire people who will do what he wants them to do.  That's what all Head Coaches do.  And they should.  The difference here is also that both our new OC and DC were desired by other teams for either the same position or a Head Coaching position.

 

Why are you excited about that?  

 

And not all coaches keep elevating positions coaches in the room to Coordinator. And there's no reporting that other teams offered either of them jobs that they turned down.

[transplantbillsfan]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why are you excited about that?  

 

And not all coaches keep elevating positions coaches in the room to Coordinator. And there's no reporting that other teams offered either of them jobs that they turned down.

 

I'm excited about Brady and Babbich because they're hot names across the NFL for a reason. Brady coordinated arguably the best passing offense in College Football history and has actually served as an OC in the NFL and found some success with minimal talent and Teddy Bridgewater at QB.

 

As far as Babbich goes... everything he's touches has turned to Gold. He was the Safeties coach in the beginning of Poyer and Hyde's career and the year he shifted to LB coach was Edmunds best year and Milano was an All-Pro and then this year we all saw Bernard plus he turned Dodson into a pretty good LB.

 

That's why I'm excited.

 

And most coaches do promote from within. Perhaps it's time for you to consider that promoting from within is actually a good sign.

[3rdand12]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:26 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

I'm gonna be honest... it took me some time to get over our season.

 

I'm good now.

 

Now I'm excited not just for next season, but our future.

 

First of all, Buffalo has the 2nd youngest OC/DC combo in the NFL. Players advocate for these guys who have plenty of juice, so let em shake us all season long! 

 

Second, and most important, a lot of people are worried about our CAP while ignoring the 10 draft picks plus 9 future reserves we have in the waiting. Combine those with young stars already on the team like Bernard, Kincaid, Shakir, Brown, Benford & Rousseau and this team is about to get a lot younger as guys like Hyde, Poyer, Miller and Diggs exit in the next 2 or 3 years.

 

To me, the future looks bright. Our most important player is about to become the veteran presence as everyone else around him gets younger. And it's by necessity because of our CAP situation.

 

But don't be afraid of that... the Bills since McBeane have been in place have maintained one of the oldest rosters in the NFL. Always low to mid 20s, as far as ranking in the NFL... not as far as age.  That means we've always been one of the 10 oldest teams in the NFL. 

 

Now we inject youth. This offseason it's inevitably going to come in the WR corps & DL especially, but it'll shift across positions moving forward.

 

And we'll have a young OC & DC with a lot of juice to connect with them and a hypercompetitive QB with a handshake for everyone and Richard jokes to get them playing for him

 

This team is actually going through some drastic changes this offseason... it has me excited!!!

Geebus your enthusiastic perspective is hard to fight against.

Thanks

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why are you excited about that?  

 

And not all coaches keep elevating positions coaches in the room to Coordinator. And there's no reporting that other teams offered either of them jobs that they turned down.

Weo  !