Low Positive Posted March 16 Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Beck Water said: Not to take away from your point, but it's not even "the top 2 guys drafted at any position". Look at the 2018 QB draft. I think there's a clear consensus at this point that the top-2 guys are Josh Allen (the 3rd QB picked) and Lamar Jackson (the 5th) Look at the 2022 WR draft - the first two WR drafted were Smith-Njigba and Quentin Johnson, but the next two WR drafted (Zay Flowers and Jordan Addison) out-performed them last season. And Rashee Rice (drafted at #55 in the 2nd round) outperformed everyone else drafted in the first 3 rounds. To further your point that the draft is a crap shoot in many regards, the best receiver in that 2022 draft so far was drafted in the 5th round. I think you mean 2023 in those last two paragraphs, but we agree on the main point. Remember the lead-up to the 2018 draft? Everyone was sure that Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were can't-miss prospects and that Allen and Jackson were projects that came with significant risk. There was major, nationwide consensus on this. And the consensus was entirely wrong. I fear the same for this draft at WR. There is never a draft where all the hyped prospects hit. NEVER. All that said, I still think that the Bills should take a swing.
SCBills Posted March 16 Posted March 16 25 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: I'm hoping, maybe after Diggs leaves, whenever that is, that Josh steps up his leadership that way. I remember when Peyton Manning had his leadership in the lockerroom questioned ("Stupid kicker")... He later stepped it up. I feel like, maybe hope.. that when Diggs is gone, Josh Allen truly becomes that type of leader and I have a feeling that when Diggs is no longer here.. Kincaid becomes an absolute superstar. 1
london_bills Posted March 16 Posted March 16 2 minutes ago, SCBills said: I feel like, maybe hope.. that when Diggs is gone, Josh Allen truly becomes that type of leader and I have a feeling that when Diggs is no longer here.. Kincaid becomes an absolute superstar. Agree 1
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 5 minutes ago, Low Positive said: I think you mean 2023 in those last two paragraphs, but we agree on the main point. Remember the lead-up to the 2018 draft? Everyone was sure that Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen were can't-miss prospects and that Allen and Jackson were projects that came with significant risk. There was major, nationwide consensus on this. And the consensus was entirely wrong. I fear the same for this draft at WR. There is never a draft where all the hyped prospects hit. NEVER. All that said, I still think that the Bills should take a swing. Right on all counts. The real question is always, how good was the drafting team's scouting of the position? The Bills do seem to have a knack for being able to identify WR who can play from the later rounds. The question is, do they have the ability to identify the guys who can really play from the top rounds?
Low Positive Posted March 16 Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Right on all counts. The real question is always, how good was the drafting team's scouting of the position? The Bills do seem to have a knack for being able to identify WR who can play from the later rounds. The question is, do they have the ability to identify the guys who can really play from the top rounds? True, but sometimes it is just luck (good or bad). We want to think that it's always scouting so that we have someone to blame when things don't work out, but for every Amon-Ra St. Brown there is a Jalen Reagor. Speaking of Reagor, people here think Howie Roseman is a genius but that dude took Reagor one pick before Justin Jefferson. If Beane would have done that, those same posters calling Roseman a genius would bring it up as much as they bring up Wyatt Teller.
Beck Water Posted March 16 Posted March 16 42 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: In spite of all the BS (IMHO) he causes with his messages and waving goodbye in a Bills uni Twitter bio pic (what a juvenile thing to do) I think it's a huge gamble to think a rookie and Samuels can be our top two WRs this year... So I think he plays one more year and is gone. But who knows. I just wish he'd shut up and focus on doing what team leaders should do. It seems like you're considering his twitter pic showing him waving good-bye in a Bills uni to be some sort of provocation (like he's waving goodbye to the Bills?) But when he put it there, it was just celebrating a successful play, waving good-bye to the DBs chasing him. The line between rightful pride in ability and "juvenile" is always going to be thin I guess. I do agree with you that it's a huge gamble to count on a rookie and Samuels as our two top WR and agree with you that if Diggs would shut up and lock in, it would be better for the Bills, AND for him in the long run.
Saxum Posted March 16 Posted March 16 22 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Not to take away from your point, but it's not even "the top 2 guys drafted at any position". Look at the 2018 QB draft. I think there's a clear consensus at this point that the top-2 guys are Josh Allen (the 3rd QB picked) and Lamar Jackson (the 5th) Look at the 2022 WR draft - the first two WR drafted were Smith-Njigba and Quentin Johnson, but the next two WR drafted (Zay Flowers and Jordan Addison) out-performed them last season. And Rashee Rice (drafted at #55 in the 2nd round) outperformed everyone else drafted in the first 3 rounds. To further your point that the draft is a crap shoot in many regards, the best receiver in that 2022 draft so far was drafted in the 5th round. Sometimes you bet on snake eyes because you feel lucky and sometimes you just take as many rolls as you can.
4merper4mer Posted March 16 Posted March 16 4 minutes ago, SCBills said: I feel like, maybe hope.. that when Diggs is gone, Josh Allen truly becomes that type of leader and I have a feeling that when Diggs is no longer here.. Kincaid becomes an absolute superstar. How exactly is Diggs preventing Allen from becoming a leader? True leaders find a way. I don’t think of Allen as a follower by any means, he is somewhat of a leader, but if he was ever going to be a true full time alpha leader, he would be one already. Blaming Diggs for Allen being a goofy Golden Retriever type of a personality is misplaced. BTW I have no qualms having Allen at QB at all. And I don’t think he should artificially try to change his personality. We can win with his personality and he should just be himself. I don’t have any problem with Diggs personality either. If I were to get out a magnifying glass and look for something I might worry a little about it might be Diggs expecting everyone to have a style just like his. When I scan the league’s QBs, who do I see as a “leader” that meets what I perceive……perhaps erroneously….to be your criteria? A Jim Kelly type? I don’t see many. It’s a different generation. Even Mahomes is just a maybe for me as is Burrow. Mayfield kind of has that vibe but isn’t good enough to back it up. Stafford? To a degree. Maybe some of the younger guys are like that and feeling their way, Stroud, Love etc. I don’t know much about the rookies but mommy crying Williams ain’t it that’s for sure.
Mango Posted March 16 Posted March 16 31 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I will just say I am not following your reasoning on this point. I do know that you understand the cap. I'm sure that you understand there's no such thing as a "post june 1" designation for a trade as there is for a cut, where the team's obligations for this season void but the cap stays on the books until post- june 1 ( a trade can actually occur on or after June 1 of course, but the team incurs the obligation of all this season's guarantees) So can you explain what you mean by the statement "Diggs nets us $19M in total cap dollars in 2024 if we cut/trade him after June 1"? If we cut him today with a post-June-1 designation, Check. If we trade him after June 1 - that entirely depends upon whether and how much of his then fully-guaranteed $18.5M salary the trade partner takes on OR if he's cut after today, upon whether he has offset language in his contract which precludes "double dipping" and offers us relief to the extent of any salary in a new contract he signs I'm also puzzled by the "in theory Diggs could give us $24M more dollars if we don't touch the $19M this year". I think this isn't a way contract impacts on the cap are usually viewed, perhaps for good reason. The Bills save $19M cutting or trading Diggs post June 1 per both Spotrac and OTC. I am unsure what the confusion is over the post June 1 trades or stipulations in Diggs contract. In a trade the receiving team picks up his contract. Yes. But there is no “how much they are willing”. The NFL isn’t the NHL, you can’t barter what costs to keep in house and what you don’t.. You either take the contract or you don’t make the trade. Worth noting that because of Diggs restructure the receiving team can cut Diggs more or less whenever they want for next no zero cap implications. His cap number for the receiving team would be right around 16th in the league among WR. That decent value with almost no commitment. The $24M I’m talking about is rolling over the $19M. (Assuming they don’t spend it)
Low Positive Posted March 16 Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Punching Bag said: Sometimes you bet on snake eyes because you feel lucky and sometimes you just take as many rolls as you can. The problem is that if the Bills trade Diggs, they have to absolutely hit on an immediate #1 WR in the latter half of the first round. Not a guy that can be #1 in a few years as he develops. No, they need a guy who is the #1 WR from the first snap in camp. If they were looking at the possibility of Marv or Nabers, then sure. But they are not, and I believe that we (and everyone else) are falling into the trap of comparing draft prospects against each other instead of projecting themselves into the league and comparing them to guys already playing in the NFL. But I should probably take this discussion to the 2024 WR thread and leave this one to a bunch of grown men complaining about a WR acting like a diva on social media. 1
julian Posted March 16 Posted March 16 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Low Positive said: The problem is that if the Bills trade Diggs, they have to absolutely hit on an immediate #1 WR in the latter half of the first round. Not a guy that can be #1 in a few years as he develops. No, they need a guy who is the #1 WR from the first snap in camp. If they were looking at the possibility of Marv or Nabers, then sure. But they are not, and I believe that we (and everyone else) are falling into the trap of comparing draft prospects against each other instead of projecting themselves into the league and comparing them to guys already playing in the NFL. But I should probably take this discussion to the 2024 WR thread and leave this one to a bunch of grown men complaining about a WR acting like a diva on social media. He’s brought this on himself, if he wasn’t a regular no show in the post season then everyone would ignore his social media antics, but he hasn’t been the same since the Bengals playoff loss and along with his playoff no shows, his second half of last years regular season wasn’t good. I would respect him if he just came out and said “I don’t think this coach or this QB or both aren’t doing what I believe they need to do, and I want out” but instead he sends signals to the league he isn’t happy in hopes it creates a market and someone comes and saves him. He did it in Minnesota and he’s doing it now, is what it is. Edited March 16 by julian 1
Draconator Posted March 16 Posted March 16 7 minutes ago, julian said: He’s brought this on himself, if he wasn’t a regular no show in the post season then everyone would ignore his social media antics, but he hasn’t been the same since the Bengals playoff loss and along with his playoff no shows, his second half of last years regular season wasn’t good. I would respect him if he just came out and said “I don’t think this coach or this QB or both aren’t doing what I believe they need to do, and I want out” but instead he sends signals to the league he isn’t happy in hopes it creates a market and someone comes and saves him. He did it in Minnesota and he’s doing it now, is what it is. Or Diggs is playing with you and others, just to get this type of response, and laugh his ass off. 1 1
Johnnyp566 Posted March 16 Posted March 16 “Ready for whatever”… careful what you wish for.. you just might be catching passes from Daniel Jones. 1
uticaclub Posted March 16 Posted March 16 I find it amusing how players can provoke us with social media posts. Dion's post about his ranch was hilarious. 2
yall Posted March 16 Posted March 16 49 minutes ago, Beck Water said: He has a point: It's for reals that the man seems to need a mirror. OTOH, I do think the degree of furor over this particular tweet is overblown. I could say "it's childish; stop attacking him for acknowledging that the NFL is a business and regardless of what he prefers, at this time of the year a player can be swapped or cut." I agree this most recent tweet isn't exactly inflammatory, but taken in the broader context of his body of work, it just adds to the belief that he's a childish diva.
julian Posted March 16 Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Draconator said: Or Diggs is playing with you and others, just to get this type of response, and laugh his ass off. Yeah that’s what he’s doing lol.. it got him traded in Minnesota but he’s decided that’s just a part of doing business in the troll game and if his trolling helps facilitate a trade then so be it. That seems plausible. 1 1
Draconator Posted March 16 Posted March 16 Just now, julian said: Yeah that’s what he’s doing lol.. it got him traded in Minnesota but he’s decided that’s just a part of doing business in the troll game and if his trolling helps facilitate a trade then so be it. That seems plausible. If he wanted out he would have never signed a contract that would have him retire as a Buffalo Bill. People are stupid. 1 1
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 16 Posted March 16 10 minutes ago, Draconator said: Or Diggs is playing with you and others, just to get this type of response, and laugh his ass off. Something he has said multiple times. 1
julian Posted March 16 Posted March 16 16 minutes ago, Draconator said: If he wanted out he would have never signed a contract that would have him retire as a Buffalo Bill. People are stupid. Yeah peoples positions never change lol, you’re 100% correct, some people are stupid 1
Draconator Posted March 16 Posted March 16 2 minutes ago, julian said: Yeah peoples positions never change lol, you’re 100% correct, some people are stupid You honestly don't see you're playing right into his games. Honestly, I can't.
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